Samuel Peter replacing Earnie Shavers in the 70's...

[Master]

I thought Chisora was super Frazier?

Peters was outboxed by fat James Toney. That Peters?

The one who got outboxed and lost every round to Vitali who had not fought a competitive fight for 100 years?

Joker.

[Max Power]

I thought Chisora was super Frazier?

Peters was outboxed by fat James Toney. That Peters?

The one who got outboxed and lost every round to Vitali who had not fought a competitive fight for 100 years?

Joker.

Yes, because James Toney and Vitali Klitschko are far worse than the what is it, 14 or so opponents that Shavers lost to aren't they?

By the way Shavers never managed to outbox any decent opponent, he was always just a punch. Who won the Toney fights again btw?

"Super-Frazier" is a term I use to describe any boxer like Chisora, PEter, Bert Cooper etc that employ a come forward swarming style with little regard to defence but applying pressure (like Frazier) and are shorter than their average competition, often with a minimal skillset (but not always, sometimes I apply it to Tyson). The "Super" bit comes from the fact they are physically much stronger, more durable and come with a much harder punch.

I have only now used "Super-Shaver" exclusively to refer to Samuel PEter who is clearly stylistically very similar, simply enormously stronger.

[Master]

Bert Cooper/Chisora is not super Frazier.

Peters is not Shavers.

These fighters are far from super or superior.

I think Toney should have won the first fight and the fact that Peters struggled with a blown up great middleweight says quite a lot.

[Max Power]

Bert Cooper/Chisora is not super Frazier.

Peters is not Shavers.

These fighters are far from super or superior.

I think Toney should have won the first fight and the fact that Peters struggled with a blown up great middleweight says quite a lot.

I think it was how it was analysed at the time. Toney out-worked Peter. Peter landed the more effective punches on Toney. I think it was close. I called it for Peter.

Peter struggling with Toney tells me this much.

Toney is skillwise better than PEter. As were basically all of Shavers decent opponents. Toney and Peter are range-wise fairly comparable, hence Toney being capable of out-boxing Peter who as a natural HW and slugger style should not be expected to win by out-skilling Toney.

Punching power and strength won the fight for Peter.

James Toney who fought Peter in the first fight weighed 233lbs. Bigger than ANY decent competitor in the 70's by far! Obviously this was not a "middleweight" anymore. Food and Steroids fixed that!

Yes, the extra muscles AND the extra lard on Toney is what enabled him to survive Peter, were he to have come in at even, say, 200lbs, the CW limit, he would have imo been knocked out without the added resistance.

[Master]

No body stops Toney too ring wise.

[Beanflicker]

Peters is not Shavers.

You're not seriously suggesting that Shavers was a better fighter than Sam Peter??

I think Shavers has to be the most overrated guy in boxing history. I don't think the people heaping so much praise on him have actually seen his fights, aside from maybe a KO montage on Youtube.

[Max Power]

Peters is not Shavers.

You're not seriously suggesting that Shavers was a better fighter than Sam Peter??

I think Shavers has to be the most overrated guy in boxing history. I don't think the people heaping so much praise on him have actually seen his fights, aside from maybe a KO montage on Youtube.

Unfortunately that's all most ppl have seen, and the oldies here that know better rely on the fact that most youngsters haven't or wont watch his complete fights to know any better.

They are for the most part pretty safe because his fights are basically "unwatchable" for any reason but study purposes.

But YouTube caught up with them and the evidence is now at the fingertips

For the record, the Shaver/Ali fight was a close call, and for an objective fan like youself Beanz it's fine to call it for Ali, my main point being that for Ali to have such a close competitive fight with a guy like Shavers makes a Peter/Ali confrontation a highly relevant question.

The usual OTNB mantra of "Peter wouldn't win a round" or "Ali wipes the floor" against Peter simply doesn't hold up to proper analysis with Ali's ACTUAL performance.