May 1973 ~ 'Heavyweight Rankings'

[Master]

There you go again degrading Foreman as a plodder and Ali as just a punch bag.

You think today's fighters are superior because of their weight.

You are wrong.

No I don't, I consider Foreman inferior to todays plodder sluggers, because he was a far lighter, less powerful, slower and less skilled and less defended version of them and he proved himself against far smaller and worse opponents.

I consider Ali inferior to todays skilful opponents because Ali had no punch by comparison and could not defend himself against a punch either, where as today's skilled oppoennts can bend around shots and not get hit often and can counter far quicker.

I consider both inferior to the champ, because of BOTH reasons combined.

They were both smaller, less athletic and less skilled than the average Klitschko opponents overall, let alone Klitschko himself!

I do not mean that they were all 3 of these at once. Foreman might be stronger than some opponents and Ali might be faster or more skilled than some opponents. But the TOTAL PACKAGE of Foreman and Ali was generally LESS than the TOTAL PACKAGE of the average Klitschko opponent (let alone Klitchko himself, again).

Today's heavyweights are not more athletic, just because they weigh more. In fact a lot of them have poor technical skills that they should take up another profession.

[Max Power]

There you go again degrading Foreman as a plodder and Ali as just a punch bag.

You think today's fighters are superior because of their weight.

You are wrong.

No I don't, I consider Foreman inferior to todays plodder sluggers, because he was a far lighter, less powerful, slower and less skilled and less defended version of them and he proved himself against far smaller and worse opponents.

I consider Ali inferior to todays skilful opponents because Ali had no punch by comparison and could not defend himself against a punch either, where as today's skilled oppoennts can bend around shots and not get hit often and can counter far quicker.

I consider both inferior to the champ, because of BOTH reasons combined.

They were both smaller, less athletic and less skilled than the average Klitschko opponents overall, let alone Klitschko himself!

I do not mean that they were all 3 of these at once. Foreman might be stronger than some opponents and Ali might be faster or more skilled than some opponents. But the TOTAL PACKAGE of Foreman and Ali was generally LESS than the TOTAL PACKAGE of the average Klitschko opponent (let alone Klitchko himself, again).

Today's heavyweights are not more athletic, just because they weigh more. In fact a lot of them have poor technical skills that they should take up another profession.

This is where exact clarity is needed and exactly where nostalgic fans overlook it..

There are sluggers with less skills, and skilled fighters of lower calibre in all eras. The champs of all eras have generally combined both features accounting for their success.

At HW you can be a chubby or an athletic boxer, both types can be successful at HW and always have been! It's boxing, not running!

The ATLETIC boxers today are more athletic than the ATHLETIC boxers of yesterday.

There are skilled boxers in every era and less skilled ones which make up for lack of skills with other qualities in every era, today and yesterday.

The SKILLED boxers today are more skilled than the SKILLED boxers of yesterday!

The problem with you is you like to make inappropriate comparisons like prime athletic Muhammad Ali to Chris Arreola in terms of athleticiem, where the correct comparison would be David Haye. (who is more athletic by far).

You also would try to compare the skills of Kenny Norton to those of say Lucas Browne, where the correct comparison would be to someone like say, Bryant Jennings.

If you want to make a comparison in size, you should compare someone like Frazier to Povetkin or Stiverne (who are also better skilled)

Of course the simplest comparison is champ to champ. Klitschko is bigger (by far), more athletic (by far) and more skilled (by so far it's beyond a joke).

I look at the total quality, the big picture. You seem only be able to focus on a single attribute at a time.

[Bill Paxtom]

Easy 'Der Max'

Dick Sadder {Manager for George Foreman} had to choose Big George's
1st Title defense opponent.

* Larry Middleton
* Jeff 'Candy Slim' Merrit
* Jose 'King' Roman

[Master]

Foreman was a gold medal Olympian so he had pedigree boxing skills. He was very powerful and so clubbed these fighters to win his matches. I am sure George would agree she should have developed his boxing skills particularly his jab, which he did in his comeback 20 years later. I think had he developed his skills and composure he would have beaten Ali.

Haye may be more athletic than Ali, he certainly was not as skilled.

Also remember Ali's peak was never seen. Anything he did after the comeback was a bonus as he lost his reflexes and had to use his durability won win fights. That is why he is no amazing.

[brocktonblockbust]

George Foreman in that Roman fight really showed his greatness. What a final finishing uppercut to knock the slick Roman's ass right the fuck OUT. Roman was down for 35 seconds before he could even get into a sitting position. WHAT BRUTE FORCE!! FOREMAN HIT HARDER WITH ONE HAND THAN BOTH KLITSCHKO'S TOGETHER, PLUS ADD IN DAVID FEATHER-FIST HAYE'S POWER

[Bill Paxtom]

Jose 'King' Roman

A hell of a good Puerto Rican Heavyweight.

May 1973

Age.......... 26 years, 6 months
Height ..... 5' 10"
Reach ..... 72"
Weight .... 196 lbs.

Record..... 43-7-1 {21 KO's}

Very fast-handed, and a good mover.

Jose was on a tear, and had gone {22-1-0} since August 1969 {3 years, 9 months}.

I would not have wanted to tangle with him.

[Max Power]

George Foreman in that Roman fight really showed his greatness. What a final finishing uppercut to knock the slick Roman's ass right the fuck OUT. Roman was down for 35 seconds before he could even get into a sitting position. WHAT BRUTE FORCE!! FOREMAN HIT HARDER WITH ONE HAND THAN BOTH KLITSCHKO'S TOGETHER, PLUS ADD IN DAVID FEATHER-FIST HAYE'S POWER

LOL PPPLEASE!



Ken Norton, Joe Roman and Joe Frazier...

What a TESTING run a HW champion. Overmatched chinny featherfists, flogged out by nothing more than a much stronger man walloping them left and right with no recourse to anything else whatsoever.

What is among the saddest things I've ever seen in boxing, @brocktonblockbust sees an awesome display.

I wonder if Foreman could have done it like that against Haye or Klitschko's opponents?

Yes Davey boy or Wladdy cake would have no answer for a 6'3", 220lber standing stationary in the pocket winging left, right, left, right, nice and wide for all to see.

There might be time for a cup of coffee inbetween counters LOL

[Max Power]

Joe Roman didn't look all that slick here to me.

"Defense" must have taken a different meaning back then.

Jose Roman... The Chris Byrd of the 70's ey haha

[Max Power]

Foreman was a gold medal Olympian so he had pedigree boxing skills. He was very powerful and so clubbed these fighters to win his matches. I am sure George would agree she should have developed his boxing skills particularly his jab, which he did in his comeback 20 years later. I think had he developed his skills and composure he would have beaten Ali.

Haye may be more athletic than Ali, he certainly was not as skilled.

Also remember Ali's peak was never seen. Anything he did after the comeback was a bonus as he lost his reflexes and had to use his durability won win fights. That is why he is no amazing.

No version of Muhammad Ali ever came remotely close to having 1/5th the skills of David Haye, let's get that straight.

David Haye is possibly the fastest boxer with the fastest reflexes ever to box at HW. He finds his mark really often against longer ranged fighters and he barely ever gets hit in his fights he is so elusive. And he delivers outstanding shots of his own and has the agility of a cat.

What skills did Muhammad Ali have? He basically did a merry go round of his opponents and sliped them a couple of windmakers here and there and then ran away. And everytime he was cornered or he stayed in the pocket too long he got walloped by the slowest of shots. And this is the PRIME Ali!

The issue with your statement about Muhammad, is that PRIOR to his second career, Muhammad Ali NEVER FOUGHT A DECENT OPPONENT!

His best "win" would have been against Liston, a gift retirement which was otherwise even on the cards, and a rematch which was almost certainly a dive, strange circumstances surrounded which as well. So Ali 1st career never convincingly beat his best opponent.

Also he is credited with his apparently only proper KO win at this time, against Big Cat Williams, an opponent which could not even spar or train properly, had been gunshot the year prior and had large amount of his intestines and abdominal+pelvic organs removed and had a visibly atrophied leg and walked with a limp!

Unbelievable!

OBVIOUSLY Muhammad Ali 2 was better because he was heavier, stronger, more durable and more experienced than Muhammad Ali 1! How could it really be otherwise!

And just because Ali and Foreman didn't/couldn't fight during their physical primes (allegedly) does not mean they would have been better than David Haye or Wladimir Klitschko!

[Bill Paxtom]

Jack 'The Giant' O'Halloran

Talks about 'mass' > 6' 6" @ 235 lbs.

May 1973 > 32-16-2 {16 KO's}

'Jack the Giant' was riding a hot streak by going 8-1-0 {5 KO's} over the
previous 11-Months.

Jack {Age; 30 years, 1 month} was also the reigning California State Heavyweight
Champion.

Jack, who was ranked at #24, was seeking a bout with #12 ranked - Mac Foster.