TBEs in other sports

[Beanflicker]

Football... JIM BROWN!!!

[El Kabong]

Yes well Barry Bonds used steroids and HGH.

So did everyone else he played against though.

You assume

Football... JIM BROWN!!!

Lawrence Taylor, Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Dick Butkus, Ray Neitschke, Deacon Jones, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, Johnny Unitas, Ronnie Lott, Reggie White...it's not cut and dry that Jim Brown was even the best running back ever because there are different kinds of running backs now. What about Red Grange or Jim Thorpe? Jim Thorpe was one of the most amazing athletes of all time!!!!

[El Kabong]

TYRUS RAYMOND COBB ....one of the greatest players ever to play baseball. Not a nice guy by any stretch but it's understandable given how he was brought up and having seen his father shot by his mother's lover or some such craziness it's not a surprise he was a bitter asshole.

Jimmie Foxx, Ol' Double X was a phenomenal hitter!

Cy Young, Christy Matthewson, Walter Johnson, Babe Ruth, Bob Feller, Bob Gibson, Satchel Paige, Josh Gibson, Sadaharu Oh, Ichiro, Honus Wagner, Willie Mays, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Rickey Henderson, Jackie Robinson, Ozzie Smith, Carlton Fisk, Carl Yastremski, Cal Ripken, Tony Gwynn, Bo Jackson(again).....we could go on forever.

[walrus]

TYRUS RAYMOND COBB ....one of the greatest players ever to play baseball. Not a nice guy by any stretch but it's understandable given how he was brought up and having seen his father shot by his mother's lover or some such craziness it's not a surprise he was a bitter asshole.

Jimmie Foxx, Ol' Double X was a phenomenal hitter!

Cy Young, Christy Matthewson, Walter Johnson, Babe Ruth, Bob Feller, Bob Gibson, Satchel Paige, Josh Gibson, Sadaharu Oh, Ichiro, Honus Wagner, Willie Mays, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Rickey Henderson, Jackie Robinson, Ozzie Smith, Carlton Fisk, Carl Yastremski, Cal Ripken, Tony Gwynn, Bo Jackson(again).....we could go on forever.

No doubt Cobb was great. Gwynn had a chance at hitting four hundred. It is hard to pick TBE but I think it's safe to say Teddy Ballgame was the greatest hitter.

[Beanflicker]

You assume

All those top guys were juiced, the pitchers, the batters, so it's just par for the course.

I don't look at steroids as any more of an advantage than not having to play against black athletes.

To say you played baseball when blacks weren't allowed to play is like saying you hit the ball off a tee. It's disgraceful.

[El Kabong]

You assume

All those top guys were juiced, the pitchers, the batters, so it's just par for the course.

I don't look at steroids as any more of an advantage than not having to play against black athletes.

To say you played baseball when blacks weren't allowed to play is like saying you hit the ball off a tee. It's disgraceful.

Not really and I'll explain why, did the Negro Leagues have Mexicans and Dominicans and Cubans playing? Did Japanese players play back then? Fucking hell Cuba STILL doesn't allow their best players to play in the MLB they have to fucking defect! And who is to say that in 30-40 years will India and/or China be supplying better baseball players? Guys that will never have played against Babe Ruth et al.

Disgraceful my ass, it is what it is. It's like in soccer, you have different leagues and guys in the Dutch league score waaaaaaay more goals than English Leagues or Spanish Leagues or Italian or French...are they better worse the same? It's up to people to decide. Sadaharu Oh has WAAAAAAAAAY more homeruns than Barry Bonds...he only played in Japan, you take it for what it is

[El Kabong]

Barry Bonds 762 homeruns...Sadaharu Oh 868 homeruns (no roids either)

[TitoFan]

I LOVE these discussions.

A little known stat about Tiger Woods vs. Jack Nicklaus:

Ok, so Jack has 18 major tournament wins vs. Tiger's 14.

Howeverrrrrr.......

Jack also finished 2nd a whopping total of 19 times in major tournaments.
Greg Norman is 2nd on that list of 2nd place finishes with 8.
Tiger has six 2nd place finishes in major tournaments.

Jack also had to battle some other greats in their own right throughout his career.
Palmer, Watson, Player, Trevino, Ballesteros... and a host of other HOF'ers.

Woods had Mickelson and a bunch of no-names to contend with.
It's only recently that players of the caliber of Rory McIlroy have risen to challenge for the top spot.

Finally... there's the man himself.
Jack conducted himself with class... in and out of the golf course.
Tiger is a self-absorbed, obnoxious, sore loser which is why people love Mickelson more.

In summary...... Tiger isn't fit to carry the Golden Bear's jock.

[Beanflicker]

I LOVE these discussions.

A little known stat about Tiger Woods vs. Jack Nicklaus:

Ok, so Jack has 18 major tournament wins vs. Tiger's 14.

Howeverrrrrr.......

Jack also finished 2nd a whopping total of 19 times in major tournaments.
Greg Norman is 2nd on that list of 2nd place finishes with 8.
Tiger has six 2nd place finishes in major tournaments.

Jack also had to battle some other greats in their own right throughout his career.
Palmer, Watson, Player, Trevino, Ballesteros... and a host of other HOF'ers.

Woods had Mickelson and a bunch of no-names to contend with.
It's only recently that players of the caliber of Rory McIlroy have risen to challenge for the top spot.

Finally... there's the man himself.
Jack conducted himself with class... in and out of the golf course.
Tiger is a self-absorbed, obnoxious, sore loser which is why people love Mickelson more.

In summary...... Tiger isn't fit to carry the Golden Bear's jock.

I don't really know shit about the history of golf, I just figured Tiger was the go-to answer.

[Violent Demise]

Yes well Barry Bonds used steroids and HGH.

He did. But he was a HOF before he started using. And its hard to say he had an unfair advantage over other players when he did start using. The whole damn league was pretty much on it

TYRUS RAYMOND COBB ....one of the greatest players ever to play baseball. Not a nice guy by any stretch but it's understandable given how he was brought up and having seen his father shot by his mother's lover or some such craziness it's not a surprise he was a bitter asshole.

Jimmie Foxx, Ol' Double X was a phenomenal hitter!

Cy Young, Christy Matthewson, Walter Johnson, Babe Ruth, Bob Feller, Bob Gibson, Satchel Paige, Josh Gibson, Sadaharu Oh, Ichiro, Honus Wagner, Willie Mays, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Rickey Henderson, Jackie Robinson, Ozzie Smith, Carlton Fisk, Carl Yastremski, Cal Ripken, Tony Gwynn, Bo Jackson(again).....we could go on forever.

Come on. Best ever? Really?

Barry Bonds 762 homeruns...Sadaharu Oh 868 homeruns (no roids either)

That was done in smaller ballparks and against inferior pitching

[Beanflicker]

Not really and I'll explain why, did the Negro Leagues have Mexicans and Dominicans and Cubans playing? Did Japanese players play back then? Fucking hell Cuba STILL doesn't allow their best players to play in the MLB they have to fucking defect! And who is to say that in 30-40 years will India and/or China be supplying better baseball players? Guys that will never have played against Babe Ruth et al.

Disgraceful my ass, it is what it is. It's like in soccer, you have different leagues and guys in the Dutch league score waaaaaaay more goals than English Leagues or Spanish Leagues or Italian or French...are they better worse the same? It's up to people to decide. Sadaharu Oh has WAAAAAAAAAY more homeruns than Barry Bonds...he only played in Japan, you take it for what it is

Yeah but you know full well there's a big difference between not having black athletes and not having Asian or Latino athletes. In terms of providing pure athletic ability, the black race is THE powerhouse.
It's like having a world hockey tournament and leaving out Canada and Russia. Sure, there are great players from America, Sweden, Finland, ect, but could the winner of that tournament truly be considered the greatest hockey nation? :roll eyes:

Barry Bonds competed at a time when ANYBODY could play and it truly was the best of the best. Everybody worth a fuck was juicing or taking something, and he whipped ass. Babe Ruth was the best of his time, not the best of all time.

[El Kabong]

Not really and I'll explain why, did the Negro Leagues have Mexicans and Dominicans and Cubans playing? Did Japanese players play back then? Fucking hell Cuba STILL doesn't allow their best players to play in the MLB they have to fucking defect! And who is to say that in 30-40 years will India and/or China be supplying better baseball players? Guys that will never have played against Babe Ruth et al.

Disgraceful my ass, it is what it is. It's like in soccer, you have different leagues and guys in the Dutch league score waaaaaaay more goals than English Leagues or Spanish Leagues or Italian or French...are they better worse the same? It's up to people to decide. Sadaharu Oh has WAAAAAAAAAY more homeruns than Barry Bonds...he only played in Japan, you take it for what it is

Yeah but you know full well there's a big difference between not having black athletes and not having Asian or Latino athletes. In terms of providing pure athletic ability, the black race is THE powerhouse.
It's like having a world hockey tournament and leaving out Canada and Russia. Sure, there are great players from America, Sweden, Finland, ect, but could the winner of that tournament truly be considered the greatest hockey nation? :roll eyes:

Barry Bonds competed at a time when ANYBODY could play and it truly was the best of the best. Everybody worth a fuck was juicing or taking something, and he whipped ass. Babe Ruth was the best of his time, not the best of all time.

#1: No, no that's not true and I'll prove it to you this way. You get 1-9 the BEST current black baseball players and I'll supply 1-9 Japanese, 1-9 Cuban, 1-9 Dominican, and 1-9 Mexican current players and we'll see who has the better team. Fuck it, we could go ALL TIME in that shit and I'll bet the nations rather than the race wins out.

#2 Barry Bonds WOULD HAVE been great even if he didn't take steroids and with that I am willing to agree on....best all time? best ever? NO FUCKING WAY!

[X]

Hard to argue against Don Bradman for TBE batsman in cricket.

His career average was 99.94. I think the next best one of all time is 60

[p4pking]

Who cares who the best golfer was, the game stinks, may as well list the greatest lawn bowler of all time.
How about Gary Kasparov in chess?

I like Federer as TBE in tennis, but PalmerQ had a good point about Nadal. I think it's really hard to argue it isn't one of them either way.
Usain Bolt is about the most clear cut mentioned so far, because we know without any doubt nobody has ever been faster than him. Track and field events are of course much easier to point out the best, as there is no grey area whatsoever.
Javier Sotomayor broke the record for mens high jump in 1992 and it still stands, that's pretty incredible when you think about how athletes generally get better.
I've never followed any team sports closely enough to have an informed opinion in truth, but Steve Nash grew up down the street from where I lived, so he's my pick for the best NBA player ever

[Beanflicker]

#1: No, no that's not true and I'll prove it to you this way. You get 1-9 the BEST current black baseball players and I'll supply 1-9 Japanese, 1-9 Cuban, 1-9 Dominican, and 1-9 Mexican current players and we'll see who has the better team. Fuck it, we could go ALL TIME in that shit and I'll bet the nations rather than the race wins out.

The Cuban's and Dominican's are black. They have the same African genes that African-Americans do. Generally, blacks are bigger, stronger, and faster than all other races. When's the last time you saw a white, Asian, or Latino guy (or girl) win gold at the 100m dash? Blacks either dominate or are a strong force in every sport they care to participate in. There'd be a lot of current NHLers out of work or in the minor leagues if blacks played hockey in as large numbers as they do other sports.

And this athletic superiority isn't something that popped up over the last 30 years, this goes way way back. So if you were a guy who didn't have to compete against black athletes in a game that relies on athleticism, then no, I don't think you have any claim to be #1 because you were competing in a relatively shallow pool. Imagine if we took all the black people out of the NFL, MLB and (gasp) the NBA. What a fucking joke that would be.