Your All Time Top P4P top 5

[Master]

Troll talk bro.

How do you figure?

Did he not quit during a world title match and hand his belt over to his biggest adversary because he had stomach cramps?

Did he not get outboxed by guys like Leonard, Benitez, Kirkland Laing, Robbie Sims, ect?

Talk about your free passes.

Duran smashed Moore at light middle and beat Barclay at middleweight to become champ.

[Bill Paxtom]

Troll talk bro.

How do you figure?

Did he not quit during a world title match and hand his belt over to his biggest adversary because he had stomach cramps?

Did he not get outboxed by guys like Leonard, Benitez, Kirkland Laing, Robbie Sims, ect?

Talk about your free passes.

This, I can agree with.

Robert Duran was great, but he was 'not' a Top 5 Pound-for-Pounder.

At least not on the overall.
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"Anybody can have a bad day. But don't you think that Roberto had a few too many."

You don't really need my name, do you ?

[Mr140]

Tito look you may have a point but Micheal Spinks is 14-1 in title fights and has some pretty great names to go along with it. At lhw which his era is probably one of the best defended the belt 10 times and was not really ever tested hell the man never even was knocked down at lhw. The fight with the buzzsaw Spink's had to tell his daughter that her mom went to heaven before the fight and he still went out there and won pretty easy. He lost to Tyson big deal still was the best lhw ever, still won the Hw belt and still did more then most in just 32 fights. Face it he did retire but he achieved everything already was no point. If you going to bring up loses Jones and Duran had some bad ones compared to what happen to Micheal Spinks. At least Spinks lost to legend not a guy who had great night or a border hof type of guy.

[Beanflicker]

Duran smashed Moore at light middle and beat Barclay at middleweight to become champ.

He certainly did, but how good were those guys?

Davey Moore was a veteran of 12 pro fights going up against a guy with 80 pro fights, and he got pummelled and fouled to death.

How good was Barkley really? I understand he was a decent MW coming off a big upset KO over Hearns, but come on.

[Master]

Duran smashed Moore at light middle and beat Barclay at middleweight to become champ.

He certainly did, but how good were those guys?

Davey Moore was a veteran of 12 pro fights going up against a guy with 80 pro fights, and he got pummelled and fouled to death.

How good was Barkley really? I understand he was a decent MW coming off a big upset KO over Hearns, but come on.

Moore was undefeated and Barkley was a monster middleweight. For Duran who was a former welterweight and way past his best makes these victories a mark of a great.

[Beanflicker]

It's amazing how the mind of a boxing fan works.

If he loves a fighter, there's no limit to the lengths he will go to to make excuses for that fighter, whitewash their shortcomings and flaws, believe every positive anecdote, disbelieve every negative anecdote, and manipulate facts/history/statistics to put that fighter in a better historical light.

Conversely, the opposite is equally true when he hates a fighter. I get a kick out of it. I don't have a horse in the race, I just try to call it like I see it. To me, Duran wasn't as good as people say he was, and he's one of my favourite fighters of all time.

[Beanflicker]

Moore was undefeated

That's a very positive way to look at it.

So was Craig Baker until Saturday night.

[Master]

Moore was undefeated

That's a very positive way to look at it.

So was Craig Baker until Saturday night.

Therefore he was super confident and loved his 0. Like another prick I know.

[VG_Addict]

Robinson had one of the best, if not THE best resumes in all of boxing. Look at the names:

Angott
Basilio
Fullmer
Turpin
LaMotta
Graziano
Kid Gavilan

[Beanflicker]

Robinson had one of the best, if not THE best resumes in all of boxing. Look at the names:

Angott
Basilio
Fullmer
Turpin
LaMotta
Graziano
Kid Gavilan

I mean they were all tough guys for sure, but I'd love to have someone explain to me how they were any better than modern guys. How was Lamotta better than a Maidana or Hatton technically. Or how a guy like Graziano, who in his book mentioned how he hardly trained and really only had a right hand, was better than a Shane Mosley, Canelo Alvarez, ect.

I think people get caught up in the names and legends of these guys, but forget what exactly it was they could and couldn't do in the boxing ring.

[mikeeod]

Troll talk bro.

How do you figure?

Did he not quit during a world title match and hand his belt over to his biggest adversary because he had stomach cramps?

Did he not get outboxed by guys like Leonard, Benitez, Kirkland Laing, Robbie Sims, ect?

Talk about your free passes.

Cleaned out lightweight and beat ATG top ten Ray Leonard (Ray was undefeated and in his prime) a weight class up. Not many other fighters can claim similar accomplishments. Then u throw in his close fight with Hagler and two HUGE wins over Davey Moore and Iran Barkely and I can see him being ranked in the top 5 all time.

[Master]

Troll talk bro.

How do you figure?

Did he not quit during a world title match and hand his belt over to his biggest adversary because he had stomach cramps?

Did he not get outboxed by guys like Leonard, Benitez, Kirkland Laing, Robbie Sims, ect?

Talk about your free passes.

Cleaned out lightweight and beat ATG top ten Ray Leonard (Ray was undefeated and in his prime) a weight class up. Not many other fighters can claim similar accomplishments. Then u throw in his close fight with Hagler and two HUGE wins over Davey Moore and Iran Barkely and I can see him being ranked in the top 5 all time.

Basically Duran took chances and huge risks.

[Beanflicker]

Cleaned out lightweight and beat ATG top ten Ray Leonard (Ray was undefeated and in his prime) a weight class up. Not many other fighters can claim similar accomplishments. Then u throw in his close fight with Hagler and two HUGE wins over Davey Moore and Iran Barkely and I can see him being ranked in the top 5 all time.

Ok but who did he beat at LW? DeJesus? Buchanan? Were these guys so great that you earn demigod status by beating them?

It goes along with my post above about people manipulating facts for those they love and those they hate.

If I said "well Floyd has gone almost 20 years without a loss" I'd have multiple people jump down my throat and ask me who he beat that was so great and in their prime, they'd tell me how Floyd ducked and dodged this guy and that guy, and how he only fought this guy and that guy when they were vulnerable in some way. They'd talk about him "cheating", or holding, or fighting a guy at the wrong weight class, or having a ref "help" him, ect ect. They would go through his record with a fine-toothed comb and try their best to take any morsel of accomplishment and credibility out of his career.

But when someone says "Duran cleaned out the LW division", the response is "yeah, yeah he did. Isn't he great?" Nobody goes back and looks at who he fought or didn't fight, and whether or not the guys he beat made him great.

Instead, because he "cleaned out" the division and beat DeJesus and Buchanan, I'm supposed to believe he'd beat guys like Mayweather and Whitaker. I just don't buy that. It's nonsense.

[TitoFan]

Cleaned out lightweight and beat ATG top ten Ray Leonard (Ray was undefeated and in his prime) a weight class up. Not many other fighters can claim similar accomplishments. Then u throw in his close fight with Hagler and two HUGE wins over Davey Moore and Iran Barkely and I can see him being ranked in the top 5 all time.

Ok but who did he beat at LW? DeJesus? Buchanan? Were these guys so great that you earn demigod status by beating them?

It goes along with my post above about people manipulating facts for those they love and those they hate.

If I said "well Floyd has gone almost 20 years without a loss" I'd have multiple people jump down my throat and ask me who he beat that was so great and in their prime, they'd tell me how Floyd ducked and dodged this guy and that guy, and how he only fought this guy and that guy when they were vulnerable in some way. They'd talk about him "cheating", or holding, or fighting a guy at the wrong weight class, or having a ref "help" him, ect ect. They would go through his record with a fine-toothed comb and try their best to take any morsel of accomplishment and credibility out of his career.

But when someone says "Duran cleaned out the LW division", the response is "yeah, yeah he did. Isn't he great?" Nobody goes back and looks at who he fought or didn't fight, and whether or not the guys he beat made him great.

Instead, because he "cleaned out" the division and beat DeJesus and Buchanan, I'm supposed to believe he'd beat guys like Mayweather and Whitaker. I just don't buy that. It's nonsense.

Hey bro... is it possible to defend one fighter without denigrating the other? IMHO... they're both ATG's. But you're dismissing a couple of excellent fighters in their own right: DeJesus and Buchanan.

[Mr140]

Quick question for you bean not saying your wrong or right but what do you make a of Holyfeild as a pound for pound guy. Would you say winning titles in a lot of divisions is better or would you consider a man who started out at lhw and went up to to become one of the best hw of all time. Sometimes beating guys who's weight was almost 80 pounds higher then his starting weight and do you feel his comp is as good as Jones and Mayweathers. Are you picking a fighter on how good they all be if they were the same weight right then what about some one that was not a true heavyweight who beat giants. I mean is that what pound for pound is right if they were all the same size who would win right and if was made pretty much because the heavyweights would always consider best because they beat the fuck out of other divisions.