Floyd's resume.

[La Cucaracha]

People say Floyd has never fought an ATG in their prime. Well, other than Pacquiao, what ATGs were there? Margarito? Cintron? Clottey? Williams?

Tszyu, maybe Wright (he walked away from that fight) , Hopkins, Ward, Martinez at a stretch

It's not that he never fought ATG's, he never cleaned out divisions or dared to challenge himself Freitas, Casamayor at 130, Spadafora, Dorin at 135, Tszyu at 140, Spinks, Cotto, Margaritio, Williams, Pacquiao at 147 (when it mattered) , Martinez was creaming for a fight just like Golovkin is now

Mayweather can't be blamed for all those fights not happening but some have them should have when your the best fighter in the world you should seek the best challenges. Especially if you have the nerve to call yourself TBE

Mayweather's refusal to challenge himself at 160 or above; when other great fighters who started out at lower weights than him have done so is all you need to know to see his claim to TBE is total bogus

It's his own faults, he put that TBE cap on his head and made outrageous claims. If he hadn't of done that know one would give a sh-t. He is a great fighter just not TBE

Floyd's career has been very carefully maneuvered

[Beanflicker]

Tszyu, maybe Wright (he walked away from that fight) , Hopkins, Ward, Martinez at a stretch

It's not that he never fought ATG's, he never cleaned out divisions or dared to challenge himself Freitas, Casamayor at 130, Spadafora, Dorin at 135, Tszyu at 140, Spinks, Cotto, Margaritio, Williams, Pacquiao at 147 (when it mattered) , Martinez was creaming for a fight just like Golovkin is now

Mayweather can't be blamed for all those fights not happening but some have them should have when your the best fighter in the world you should seek the best challenges. Especially if you have the nerve to call yourself TBE

Mayweather's refusal to challenge himself at 160 or above; when other great fighters who started out at lower weights than him have done so is all you need to know to see his claim to TBE is total bogus

It's his own faults, he put that TBE cap on his head and made outrageous claims. If he hadn't of done that know one would give a sh-t. He is a great fighter just not TBE

Floyd's career has been very carefully maneuvered

Said it before, will say it again: Floyd did not come into the world of boxing holding all the cards.

For the vast majority of his career, he was an ultra talented guy with very little name value, who couldn't draw jack shit, which meant most fighters were not in a hurry to fight him. He didn't have the pull to make these guys fight him.

He called out the majority of the guys you mentioned. He called out a 154lb Oscar when he was fighting at 135 - Oscar turned it down, saying he had nothing to gain taking that fight. He called out Mosley at 135 - Shane chose instead to move up to 147 and fight Oscar for the big money. Can't blame Mosley for doing that, and can't blame Floyd for the fight not happening.

Little known fact as well: Floyd was scheduled to fight Spadafora at MSG but the New York Athletic Commission put the kibosh on that after Paul was charged with shooting his pregnant finance.

[La Cucaracha]

Like I said Floyd is not to blame for all those fights not happening, the Wright fight was all but signed then he wanted more money and bailed on Arum Floyd was going to jump from 140 to face Wright who had just beaten Trinidad at a catch weight of 154 that would have been a fantastic move

The Cotto fight, he should have done everything to make that fight instead of retiring sure there is talk that Cotto didn't want it then but flash the right price and the fight gets made no doubt

Pacquiao didn't want testing? F-ck him, most thought Floyd would have beaten him but they were the 2 best in the sport at the time. Fight him, beat him and the rest is history

Martinez, Ward and Golovkin made ridiculous offers to drop weight for an opportunity but Floyd need to secure victories over the Ortiz', Guerrero's and Berto's of the game

No one is saying Floyd ain't great but some one should tell him to take that cap off his head cause the dude is just playing himself All the money in the world won't change the fact that he will never be TBE

[Beanflicker]

All the money in the world won't change the fact that he will never be TBE

A lot of people say that, but they never give any good reasons as to why that is.

Given Floyd's skill set, ring intelligence and resume, I've never read a good reason as to why he's not at least in the discussion.

People talk about this fight and that fight that could have happened, but the reality is there's no champ in history who fought every tough fight he could have. Ray Robinson never fought Murder's Row and the many tough black fighters that had no connections and couldn't get past the smokers.

[mikeeod]

All the money in the world won't change the fact that he will never be TBE

A lot of people say that, but they never give any good reasons as to why that is.

Given Floyd's skill set, ring intelligence and resume, I've never read a good reason as to why he's not at least in the discussion.

People talk about this fight and that fight that could have happened, but the reality is there's no champ in history who fought every tough fight he could have. Ray Robinson never fought Murder's Row and the many tough black fighters that had no connections and couldn't get past the smokers.

No matter what reason you are given, it will never be good enough. Those that rank him out of the top 5 or so do that because of quality of opposition and historical significance. Floyd hasn't beaten the prime HOFers that Ray Robinson did. He never had fights as significant to the WORLD as Ali did, and Ali put on GREAT performances/fights vs Frazier (x2) and Foreman. Floyd is extremely skilled and an ATG, no doubt. But his record doesn't translate to TBE or GOAT.

[Beanflicker]

No matter what reason you are given, it will never be good enough. Those that rank him out of the top 5 or so do that because of quality of opposition and historical significance. Floyd hasn't beaten the prime HOFers that Ray Robinson did. He never had fights as significant to the WORLD as Ali did, and Ali put on GREAT performances/fights vs Frazier (x2) and Foreman. Floyd is extremely skilled and an ATG, no doubt. But his record doesn't translate to TBE or GOAT.

People give me reasons, but they are always pretty weak.

First of all, the Ali example is pretty silly. Floyd has had some of the biggest fights in the history of boxing. The fights against Frazier and Foreman were so good because Ali took ferocious punishment (and paid the price for it after he retired). So being in close fights and taking a lot of damage makes you a great fighter? Someone needs to explain that to me. Would Floyd be a greater fighter if he laid on the ropes vs Hatton, took a ferocious pounding to the head and body, and came back to win? Or is he a better fighter because he took very little damage and finished with a great KO?

People are shitting on Floyd for choosing to fight Berto, but to be real, the majority of SRR's opponents couldn't hold Berto's jockstrap. And of course I'm not talking about guys like Lamotta, Armstrong, Zivic, ect. But if you look at the fights between the quality opponents, there is a TON of filler: guys that had no business being in the ring with one of the greatest fighters to ever live. And of course people will try to stick up for the competition and say things like "oh it was a different time, records weren't important, great fighters had bad records, ect". BULLSHIT. A 46-23 fighter coming off of 4 straight losses had no more business being in the ring with a champ than he would today.

And we talk about Floyd fighting guys past their primes, but we give credit to SRR for beating a guy like Henry Armstrong, who was in his mid 30s and 2 or 3 years removed from being a champion or even a contender. Or Frankie Zivic, who was also past his championship days and had been beaten by 26 other guys when he fought SRR.

But no, Pacquiao was old and stunk (even though he was top #3 p4p at the time), Mosley was old and stunk (even though he was top #3 p4p at the time), Hatton was garbage, Corrales was mediocre... those guys could never compare to a Frankie Zivic. How dare I even suggest that? After all, Zivic is in the Hall of Fame!

What a fuckin joke!

[Master]

Robinson fought is a different era where they fought often in order to get paid. Today's fighters do not fight as often and with TV every fight will be watched.

[Mr140]

I guess it was in the top 15 best wins being Hatton, Jlc, Chico and Oscar i think kinda lacks. Hatton will most likly be forgotten and resume is pretty easy to shred. Jlc damn near most people say he won the first fight Mayweater won the a close rematch then comes Oscar who was at the end of his career. I ll say top 15 because it can be torn apart the same way as most guys i would put in top 10. I mean if you look at a Leonard he has Duran,Hearns,Benitaz and Hagler the only one that did not do anything after is Hagler but till the fight was on biggest roll he has been on. Ali, Evander, Lennox, and Leonard i felt beat better guys the Mayweather put his resume with Jones few great wins and a lot of solid wins but not really many atg fighters after that were in there prime really.

[mikeeod]

No matter what reason you are given, it will never be good enough. Those that rank him out of the top 5 or so do that because of quality of opposition and historical significance. Floyd hasn't beaten the prime HOFers that Ray Robinson did. He never had fights as significant to the WORLD as Ali did, and Ali put on GREAT performances/fights vs Frazier (x2) and Foreman. Floyd is extremely skilled and an ATG, no doubt. But his record doesn't translate to TBE or GOAT.

People give me reasons, but they are always pretty weak.

First of all, the Ali example is pretty silly. Floyd has had some of the biggest fights in the history of boxing. The fights against Frazier and Foreman were so good because Ali took ferocious punishment (and paid the price for it after he retired). So being in close fights and taking a lot of damage makes you a great fighter? Someone needs to explain that to me. Would Floyd be a greater fighter if he laid on the ropes vs Hatton, took a ferocious pounding to the head and body, and came back to win? Or is he a better fighter because he took very little damage and finished with a great KO?

People are shitting on Floyd for choosing to fight Berto, but to be real, the majority of SRR's opponents couldn't hold Berto's jockstrap. And of course I'm not talking about guys like Lamotta, Armstrong, Zivic, ect. But if you look at the fights between the quality opponents, there is a TON of filler: guys that had no business being in the ring with one of the greatest fighters to ever live. And of course people will try to stick up for the competition and say things like "oh it was a different time, records weren't important, great fighters had bad records, ect". BULLSHIT. A 46-23 fighter coming off of 4 straight losses had no more business being in the ring with a champ than he would today.

And we talk about Floyd fighting guys past their primes, but we give credit to SRR for beating a guy like Henry Armstrong, who was in his mid 30s and 2 or 3 years removed from being a champion or even a contender. Or Frankie Zivic, who was also past his championship days and had been beaten by 26 other guys when he fought SRR.

But no, Pacquiao was old and stunk (even though he was top #3 p4p at the time), Mosley was old and stunk (even though he was top #3 p4p at the time), Hatton was garbage, Corrales was mediocre... those guys could never compare to a Frankie Zivic. How dare I even suggest that? After all, Zivic is in the Hall of Fame!

What a fuckin joke!

If you can't look at Robinsons record and pick out the number of PRIME HOFers he beat, you don't want to see it. If you are going to sit there and pretend that Floyd vs Oscar and Manny, his two biggest events, were even close to the excitement or historical relevance of Ali vs Frazier (1&3) and Foreman, there is no point discussing the subject with you. Ali made boxing a global sport, and win or lose, people came away from those fights LOVING the sport of boxing and life long fans. You can't say the same for Floyd as both the Oscar and Manny fights turned people off. Not what ATGs do.

Let's take Ray Leonard now. He beat a prime Hearns, Duran, Benitez, and the monster that was Hagler (I thought Marvin won but Ray got the decision n that was a bold move to even fight the guy). Name Floyd's equivalents to those fights/accomplishments.

You are correct when you say that not all of the missed fights falling through were Floyd's fault. Doesn't change the fact that he didn't beat that level of competition. I personally think Ricardo Lopez would've been top 10 ATG if he had the requisite comp at his weight class. He didn't, so he isn't.

I would argue that Manny fought tougher competition in his career, although not by that much. Oscar definitely fought better and tougher comp, but lost numerous times. Floyd is a top 15 or lower ATG fighter, which is phenomenal. I have home top ten, personally. But to say that he has a claim for GOAT, I just don't see a realistic case at all.

[birch]

World champion for 18 years.
He has fought and beat 21 world champions.
Beat 3 undefeated champions at 3 different weights.

Can anyone up a resume that has the same number of top class opposition over such a long period. He is the best I have seen in my lifetime.

[Master]

World champion for 18 years.
He has fought and beat 21 world champions.
Beat 3 undefeated champions at 3 different weights.

Can anyone up a resume that has the same number of top class opposition over such a long period. He is the best I have seen in my lifetime.

How old are you?

[birch]

29

[Master]

29

OK makes sense. I think Pernell did what Floyd has done earlier and better.

[La Cucaracha]

All the money in the world won't change the fact that he will never be TBE

A lot of people say that, but they never give any good reasons as to why that is.

Given Floyd's skill set, ring intelligence and resume, I've never read a good reason as to why he's not at least in the discussion.

People talk about this fight and that fight that could have happened, but the reality is there's no champ in history who fought every tough fight he could have. Ray Robinson never fought Murder's Row and the many tough black fighters that had no connections and couldn't get past the smokers.

I thought I gave some good reasons

Sure Floyd is an excellent fighter but he never really took a risk after leaving lightweight Martinez was the middleweight champ and said he would drop in weight, GGG even recently said he'd go to 154 for Floyd, you could also add Ward to that list

Armstrong started at 126 and won the middleweight championship, Kid Gavilan, Jose Napoles and Duran started below feather and challenged themselves at 160 or higher Mayweather doesn't have to go to 160 but those fights I mentioned were possible and Floyd was the superstar he is, so anything he said would have got done if he wanted those fights you can bet your a$$ they would have got made

[Beanflicker]

Sure Floyd is an excellent fighter but he never really took a risk after leaving lightweight

See how can I take someone seriously who says something like that.

Never took a risk? :roll eyes:

It's incredible how jaded people become as fans when people can look at guys Floyd fought in the last 10 years and say there was no risk involved. My lord.