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Re: gay marriage in the US
Slim
I don't really want to get into a word by word analysis of your original post or your reply to my reply because I can see from the fact that we have both not posted a lot lately, we are both really busy. ( If I remember correctly you just got your HGV license and are driving across the States ?)
I Owe you an explanation and it seems an apology. I am sorry if I offended you, or your intelligence that was not my intention.
1. "I am not using Nixon as a moral compass, rather looking at a leader stating what occurs when nation's leaders indulge, promote or acquiesce to homosexual relations"
Gay people are going to exist whatever any President does. Allowing people the same rights as others is not the same as indulging them. The idea that you can promote homosexual relations is a weird one. I never thought that yourself, Miles and President Putin would ever be preaching from the same songbook but actually in reality it seems it is only those disgusted by homosexuality that seek to promote anything. Even with Sattchi and Sattchi at the helm of the most professional marketing campaign in history I really think that the idea that you can promote something that will influence somebodies sexual preference is a mute unfounded principle.
"If a nation succumbs to homosexuality as the norm: Did they progress? or did the nation falter? I agree with Nixon's assessment: They failed."
This is exactly what I meant by dressing something up as intelligent debate. When you open up a post quoting Nixon suggesting that homosexuality was the reason for the fall of the Greek and Roman Empires you are inventing a cut a dried cause and effect that is not there. Your whole post is full of post hoc/false cause, straw man fallacies, false dichotomies etc.
Your belief that homosexuality is morally wrong is surely not incompatible with an acknowledgment that civil service marriage ceremonies should cater for those that wish to use that service when they are not doing anything that is illegal ?
You claim
"this event will do something: force you someday to sit with a child, nephew, niece who kissed someone of the same sex and explain they saw it on t.v. they heard it on a song: I kissed a girl for the first time and I like it."
Again I think you are mistaken. Kids may well innocently kiss someone of the same sex without ever having seen a television but the idea that someone would have their sexual preference influenced by a scene in a film or a song on the radio just sounds like fear. People experiment sexually in various degrees but that does not make them Gay.
You then bring up abortion which has absolutely nothing to do with same sex marriage or the so called point of which, that you claim is procreation. You may think that being Jewish has nothing to do with anything but you could not be more wrong. I am not a practicing Jew but even I can not pretend that it is irrelevant. I am not judging you personally when I say it, but virtually all Christians in the west not only divorce their religion from their life but also pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow. What you do is the whole point of being a Jew. There is no heaven at the end so you must bring it down to earth in the way you treat everybody, Jewish or not. Charity and empathy, direct action in cases of injustice is not a separate part of your life it is what you do. Even Jesus alluded to this time and again, and yet Christians had to invent sin and the idea of falling short to excuse themselves from his primary admonition to love.
If the Jews in Israel did this the world would be a better place. If the people throughout history who used Judaism, Christianity or Islam, (all derived from the words of Hebrew men) and the idea of Laws, Sin or Shame to trample on the wills of other people just exercised the first principle rather than making an idol out of their religions, again the world would be a better place.
We are evolving. The need to procreate is not important anymore. For individuals maybe but as a species, not so much. Western nations like the UK and the USA are not morally great anyway so the passing of a law that allows Gay people the chance to publicly declare their love thru reading out some marriage vows, is not about to make the whole system collapse, IMHO.
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Originally Posted by SlimTrae
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