2002 Lennox Lewis vs 1988 Mike Tyson

[Primo Carnera]

Is this even a serious question? Tyson every day of the week and twice on Sundays!

[Gandalf]

Tyson by stoppage or decision. Lewis would either spoil or get stopped.

[mikeeod]

Fascinating match up, in my opinion. Right off the bat we all have to admit that if Rahman and McCall could stop Zlennox with one shot, Tyson could also. So... Tyson will always have that punchers chance in this match up.

Looking at the fighters and their mentality objectively, however, we all have to admit that Tyson always struggled vs large, physical fighters and those who jabbed well. I also feel that Lennox was vulnerable when he overlooked his opponent as evidenced by his fights vs. McCall, Rahman, Bruno, and Mercer, to name a few. Lennox would not take Tyson lightly, and I feel like Lennox was most dominant in fights vs those he viewed as dangerous, such as Tua, Grant, Ruddock, and Golota.

Lennox's size, boxing ability, jab, and smothering tactics would alwZys trouble Tyson. Mike was extremely fast and aggressive in his prime, so a knockout of Lewis is always a realistic possibility. I think the more likely outcome, however, is that Lennox breaks Mike down with the jab, leaning on Tyson and smothering him inside, before landing the big shots late for the stoppage. Just my take though...

[ross]

Fascinating match up, in my opinion. Right off the bat we all have to admit that if Rahman and McCall could stop Zlennox with one shot, Tyson could also. So... Tyson will always have that punchers chance in this match up.

Looking at the fighters and their mentality objectively, however, we all have to admit that Tyson always struggled vs large, physical fighters and those who jabbed well. I also feel that Lennox was vulnerable when he overlooked his opponent as evidenced by his fights vs. McCall, Rahman, Bruno, and Mercer, to name a few. Lennox would not take Tyson lightly, and I feel like Lennox was most dominant in fights vs those he viewed as dangerous, such as Tua, Grant, Ruddock, and Golota.

Lennox's size, boxing ability, jab, and smothering tactics would alwZys trouble Tyson. Mike was extremely fast and aggressive in his prime, so a knockout of Lewis is always a realistic possibility. I think the more likely outcome, however, is that Lennox breaks Mike down with the jab, leaning on Tyson and smothering him inside, before landing the big shots late for the stoppage. Just my take though...

You basing that on the actual fight which sounds ridiculous. Would you say Holmes stops or even beats a young Ali?

Would you say Marciano stops or beats a young Louis?

Fighters need the reflexes and skills that made them succesfull in the first place and Mikes had long gone at the point they fought.

When you say struggled you mean had to go to points because those fights he struggled in he still completely dominated unlike Lewis who should have lost against Mercer. Lews struggled with fighters who put it on him. Mavrovich had Lewis on the ropes in parts of their fight.

Lewis never had a prolonged period of dominance because of thise knockout losses. There was never a point in his career where people thought he was unbeatable unlike Mike Tyson.

[Primo Carnera]

Fascinating match up, in my opinion. Right off the bat we all have to admit that if Rahman and McCall could stop Zlennox with one shot, Tyson could also. So... Tyson will always have that punchers chance in this match up.

Looking at the fighters and their mentality objectively, however, we all have to admit that Tyson always struggled vs large, physical fighters and those who jabbed well. I also feel that Lennox was vulnerable when he overlooked his opponent as evidenced by his fights vs. McCall, Rahman, Bruno, and Mercer, to name a few. Lennox would not take Tyson lightly, and I feel like Lennox was most dominant in fights vs those he viewed as dangerous, such as Tua, Grant, Ruddock, and Golota.

Lennox's size, boxing ability, jab, and smothering tactics would alwZys trouble Tyson. Mike was extremely fast and aggressive in his prime, so a knockout of Lewis is always a realistic possibility. I think the more likely outcome, however, is that Lennox breaks Mike down with the jab, leaning on Tyson and smothering him inside, before landing the big shots late for the stoppage. Just my take though...

You basing that on the actual fight which sounds ridiculous. Would you say Holmes stops or even beats a young Ali?

Would you say Marciano stops or beats a young Louis?

Fighters need the reflexes and skills that made them succesfull in the first place and Mikes had long gone at the point they fought.

When you say struggled you mean had to go to points because those fights he struggled in he still completely dominated unlike Lewis who should have lost against Mercer. Lews struggled with fighters who put it on him. Mavrovich had Lewis on the ropes in parts of their fight.

Lewis never had a prolonged period of dominance because of thise knockout losses. There was never a point in his career where people thought he was unbeatable unlike Mike Tyson.

Gotta agree with Ross here. At the times we're talking about , Tyson never really struggled with anyone and let's face it, he was always fighting bigger fighters than himself. Also at that time, he beat Larry Holmes (Albeit an old Larry Holmes) and who Jabs better than him?

[Britkid]

I think Tyson might be too intimidated. He always struggled when top class fighters fought him with confidence. He really only beat Ruddock when faced with that type of challenge. I would take Lewis by fairly comfortable decision.

[X]

Lewis was a magnificent athlete and by 2002 Manny Stewart had made him into the best possible Lennox. He has a great post career reputation, mainly based on his being the undisputed champ .... And well deserved for that fact alone.

He was a big guy, used his weight well, good psyche, excellent skills and a heavy right hand, though he always needed room to use it. Chin was not excellent, but certainly not made of china.

BUT, the 1988 Tyson was a force of nature, the like of which boxing hasn't really seen before or since. He hadn't yet fallen into his bad habits inside the ring - forgetting his underrated boxing skills, looking for the on big punch, not firing combinations, no head movement. I don't believe he has trouble with big tall guys, he beat Smith, Tucker and Biggs very convincingly and they were as big as Lennox. Tony Tucker was a very very similar type of fighter to Lewis.

I like Lennox, but at the time he was always being criticised for being 'gun shy' and reluctant to engage. People see him through rose tinted glasses now (just like I probably do with him and Iron Mike lol). I always felt Lewis was a supreme athlete who happened to be boxing, whereas Tyson was all fighter right down to his marrow. At the time anyway.

I agree with people who think that if this fight went past 8, Lewis would probably be favoured. That's because of his great boxing skills rather than Tyson fading down the stretch. 1988 Tyson didn't get discouraged or fade down the stretch.

However, on the balance of probabilities, I don't think Lewis could keep 1988 Tyson off him for eight rounds. Lennox could be tentative, and that was one think Iron Mike wasn't. He would catch him solidly at some point early on ..... and that Tyson always finished guys off

[Britkid]

BUT, the 1988 Tyson was a force of nature, the like of which boxing hasn't really seen before or since.

I would beg to differ. Joe Louis was all this and would, unlike Tyson, be able to be to continue his peak run for a lot longer than Tyson. Also he managed victories in his declining years that sometimes compare to a lot of peak Tyson in name value.

Tyson was very good, but probably falls short of great; Louis is not 'just' great, but in the argument for being one of the ten finest fighters this sport has thus far seen.

[Primo Carnera]

I think Tyson might be too intimidated. He always struggled when top class fighters fought him with confidence. He really only beat Ruddock when faced with that type of challenge. I would take Lewis by fairly comfortable decision.

again, the thread clearly says the "1988 Tyson". I really don't recall Tyson being intimidated by anybody at that time, infact Completely the opposite. He intimidated every guy he fought up to then. Top class fighters that fought him with confidence? were there any? Berbick tried to be confident and copied Tyson Black boots, no socks to try to wind him up, and look what happened to him , and he was World Champion!!!!!!!
88 Tyson beats 2002 Lewis and The Best Tyson beats The Best Lewis!!!

[El Kabong]

again, the thread clearly says the "1988 Tyson". I really don't recall Tyson being intimidated by anybody at that time

Who had he fought to be intimidated by at that point? An older and out of shape Larry HolmesBonecrusher Smith Tyrell Biggs? At that time the division was far from flush with intimidating power punchers, it was the holdovers from the Holmes era and a bunch of young fighters who developed a little later than Tyson.


Mike Tyson was a force of nature, but don't forget there have been other boxers that have had that aura about them and vs better competition IMO....George Foreman was far and away more intimidating than Tyson. Sure Tyson beats Michael Spinks who went toe to toe with Holmes quickly...but Foreman just man handled Joe Frazier who beat Ali....Frazier being a TRUE heavyweight as well, one that took everything Ali threw at him and then some. Joe Louis made up for the lack of competition his era had with quantity and had he not given 3 of his prime years to be in the Army he could have had 30 or 40 consecutive successful title defenses!!! Joe Louis would KO you in 1 or he'd KO you in 12 or even later if needed, his power stayed around and his timing, accuracy, and delivery of that power were just things of beauty.

Mike Tyson gets overrated quite a bit, I like him but come on a Prime Lennox Lewis had all the tools to beat a Prime Tyson...height, reach, a good jab, good defense, strength, and power. I'd say Prime v Prime Lennox wins 8 out of 10 times vs Tyson.

[Britkid]

I think Tyson might be too intimidated. He always struggled when top class fighters fought him with confidence. He really only beat Ruddock when faced with that type of challenge. I would take Lewis by fairly comfortable decision.

again, the thread clearly says the "1988 Tyson". I really don't recall Tyson being intimidated by anybody at that time, infact Completely the opposite. He intimidated every guy he fought up to then. Top class fighters that fought him with confidence? were there any? Berbick tried to be confident and copied Tyson Black boots, no socks to try to wind him up, and look what happened to him , and he was World Champion!!!!!!!
88 Tyson beats 2002 Lewis and The Best Tyson beats The Best Lewis!!!

Watch the old home footage of Tyson then, he was often terrified as he stood there waiting for the bell. D'Amato et al had a hard time just getting him in the ring (El Kabong posted an example of this, in the post below).

Although they did an excellent job boosting his self confidence I cannot believe Tyson was not constantly fighting with self doubt. Look at the way he behaved, you do not need to be a psychologist to see it was a bravado to hide his true feelings.

That said Tyson was indeed a phenomenon; with the fastest hands and feet seen this side of Ali, and them tools did get him out of any of the minor troubles he had in 85 through to 89 in the ring. But from Douglas on he could not control his demons enough not to affect his performances in the ring.

I would say that 'breakdown' would have occurred earlier if it had been mid 90s Holyfield, or a Steward version of Lewis, or indeed a 'Tokyo' Buster Douglas the other side of the ring in 85, 86, 87, 88 or 89.

[mikeeod]

Fascinating match up, in my opinion. Right off the bat we all have to admit that if Rahman and McCall could stop Zlennox with one shot, Tyson could also. So... Tyson will always have that punchers chance in this match up.

Looking at the fighters and their mentality objectively, however, we all have to admit that Tyson always struggled vs large, physical fighters and those who jabbed well. I also feel that Lennox was vulnerable when he overlooked his opponent as evidenced by his fights vs. McCall, Rahman, Bruno, and Mercer, to name a few. Lennox would not take Tyson lightly, and I feel like Lennox was most dominant in fights vs those he viewed as dangerous, such as Tua, Grant, Ruddock, and Golota.

Lennox's size, boxing ability, jab, and smothering tactics would alwZys trouble Tyson. Mike was extremely fast and aggressive in his prime, so a knockout of Lewis is always a realistic possibility. I think the more likely outcome, however, is that Lennox breaks Mike down with the jab, leaning on Tyson and smothering him inside, before landing the big shots late for the stoppage. Just my take though...

You basing that on the actual fight which sounds ridiculous. Would you say Holmes stops or even beats a young Ali?

Would you say Marciano stops or beats a young Louis?

Fighters need the reflexes and skills that made them succesfull in the first place and Mikes had long gone at the point they fought.

When you say struggled you mean had to go to points because those fights he struggled in he still completely dominated unlike Lewis who should have lost against Mercer. Lews struggled with fighters who put it on him. Mavrovich had Lewis on the ropes in parts of their fight.

Lewis never had a prolonged period of dominance because of thise knockout losses. There was never a point in his career where people thought he was unbeatable unlike Mike Tyson.

I would argue that Lennox was dominant for a longer time than Tyson. Lewis lost to McCall in the mid-90s and Rahman in 2000/01 time frame, and avenged both losses. The truth is that Tyson never fought a complete, large heavyweight who wasn't terrified of him until Buster Douglas. Douglas, Lennox, and Evander all used the jab to control and punish Tyson. Mike was well past his best vs Lennox, but was considered the baddest man on the planet when he faced the other two. Additionally, while he did win those fights vs Tucker, Ruddock, and Smith, he did struggle with their sheer size, and none were ANYWHERE near the complete/elite fighter that 2002 Lennox was.

For your other questions, I think Holmes gives Ali fits prime vs prime, and Louis beats Marciano, but takes some serious punishment in the process.

[Master]

Tyson did not struggle with big fighters he beat them relatively easy it is just that you could count on one hand the moments of success they had ie Tucker right uppercut 2nd round, Bonecrusher right hand in 12th round ect

That was how good Tyson was.

[Britkid]

Tyson did not struggle with big fighters he beat them relatively easy it is just that you could count on one hand the moments of success they had ie Tucker right uppercut 2nd round, Bonecrusher right hand in 12th round ect

That was how good Tyson was.

You are right to point out pre 1990 that he did not struggle to beat the bigger physical fighters. But he clearly had periods of frustration against Tillis, Green, Ribalta, Smith and Tucker, as all five used their size to neutralize his awesome offence, but at a cost of very limited offence in return.

[ross]

Fascinating match up, in my opinion. Right off the bat we all have to admit that if Rahman and McCall could stop Zlennox with one shot, Tyson could also. So... Tyson will always have that punchers chance in this match up.

Looking at the fighters and their mentality objectively, however, we all have to admit that Tyson always struggled vs large, physical fighters and those who jabbed well. I also feel that Lennox was vulnerable when he overlooked his opponent as evidenced by his fights vs. McCall, Rahman, Bruno, and Mercer, to name a few. Lennox would not take Tyson lightly, and I feel like Lennox was most dominant in fights vs those he viewed as dangerous, such as Tua, Grant, Ruddock, and Golota.

Lennox's size, boxing ability, jab, and smothering tactics would alwZys trouble Tyson. Mike was extremely fast and aggressive in his prime, so a knockout of Lewis is always a realistic possibility. I think the more likely outcome, however, is that Lennox breaks Mike down with the jab, leaning on Tyson and smothering him inside, before landing the big shots late for the stoppage. Just my take though...

You basing that on the actual fight which sounds ridiculous. Would you say Holmes stops or even beats a young Ali?

Would you say Marciano stops or beats a young Louis?

Fighters need the reflexes and skills that made them succesfull in the first place and Mikes had long gone at the point they fought.

When you say struggled you mean had to go to points because those fights he struggled in he still completely dominated unlike Lewis who should have lost against Mercer. Lews struggled with fighters who put it on him. Mavrovich had Lewis on the ropes in parts of their fight.

Lewis never had a prolonged period of dominance because of thise knockout losses. There was never a point in his career where people thought he was unbeatable unlike Mike Tyson.

I would argue that Lennox was dominant for a longer time than Tyson. Lewis lost to McCall in the mid-90s and Rahman in 2000/01 time frame, and avenged both losses. The truth is that Tyson never fought a complete, large heavyweight who wasn't terrified of him until Buster Douglas. Douglas, Lennox, and Evander all used the jab to control and punish Tyson. Mike was well past his best vs Lennox, but was considered the baddest man on the planet when he faced the other two. Additionally, while he did win those fights vs Tucker, Ruddock, and Smith, he did struggle with their sheer size, and none were ANYWHERE near the complete/elite fighter that 2002 Lennox was.

For your other questions, I think Holmes gives Ali fits prime vs prime, and Louis beats Marciano, but takes some serious punishment in the process.

Argue all you like the facts are Tyson wiped out the top ten and left no one with any perceived chance of beating him. He lost to the biggest ever shock in boxing because he just didnt train properly and let himself down.

How long was Lewis the universally recognised best in the world in one period?

Mike made 6 successfull defences of all 3 belts (losing them in the 7th defence, no other fighter in any other division has held all the titles and defended the, as many times) after unifying 3 separate belts by beating 3 defending champions. Lewis won vacated titles and when he did have them all could only manage a couple of defences of them. He rather chose to drop some so he didnt have to face certain fighters, unlike Mike who proved there was no one in his brief era who could touch him until he big time let himself down in boxing historys biggest shock.