This is the answer to yours and the worlds problems.

[Andre]

we can all be hippies you know what I mean

Nothing to do with being hippies but about not chasing money and consuming unnecessary things.

You can argue that poor people tend to have the most children and the government picks up the tab and the poverty cycle continues. Socialists should think about that one more when they talk of extreme consumption. For me it works for the top and bottom, but many bleeding hearts ignore the problems caused by those at the bottom. If you cannot afford something then you don't have it. Granted everyone needs a home, but do you get a mansion because you have 10 kids and are a burden in a world where 90% of the ocean stocks are gone? You have to get real at some stage.

Yeah well even the bone idle and drug fucked scream about their rights to this and that and some suckers want the government to magically give them more.

[Gandalf]

we can all be hippies you know what I mean

Nothing to do with being hippies but about not chasing money and consuming unnecessary things.

You can argue that poor people tend to have the most children and the government picks up the tab and the poverty cycle continues. Socialists should think about that one more when they talk of extreme consumption. For me it works for the top and bottom, but many bleeding hearts ignore the problems caused by those at the bottom. If you cannot afford something then you don't have it. Granted everyone needs a home, but do you get a mansion because you have 10 kids and are a burden in a world where 90% of the ocean stocks are gone? You have to get real at some stage.

Yeah well even the bone idle and drug fucked scream about their rights to this and that and some suckers want the government to magically give them more.

That's where I think a balanced system is the answer. Tip it too far towards socialism and nothing works and people want something for nothing. Tip it too far to the free market then eventually everybody will end up with nothing as a few have got it all. We haven't really worked it out at all.

I think one thing I have learned from living in a system with a minimal welfare state is that I cannot afford to rely on the system for anything and that makes you grow as a person. I am still a socialist, but I have much less sympathy for the excesses of the 'care, care, care' approach. I think more along the lines of 'Okay, here is a roof over your head and cheap nationalised utilities, but you really have to improve yourself if you want anything more and if you want kids, then you have to find a way yourself'. Self responsibility has to come into play at some stage and in an age of entitlement that is seriously lacking. Improve yourself, read some books, only get involved with someone reliable etc etc. Instead it's sex education for 6 year olds, soap operas, and fricking Facebook.

I think it was Neil Young who I heard recently say the human population is growing exponentially, the oceans are depleted, and the solution is to tell people that if they care they should be having less kids. Whatever we have now isn't working and going by government stats neither are the people.

[Master]

With an aging population, which is a positive thing and an indicator of how enhanced society is, we do need more producing and serving. Hence why Germany wanted more Migrants coming into the country.

[Gandalf]

With an aging population, which is a positive thing and an indicator of how enhanced society is, we do need more producing and serving. Hence why Germany wanted more Migrants coming into the country.

That is the line that gets trotted out, but it makes no sense when you consider the numbers and trends. Young people today typically live with their parents until their 30's and the only job creation is in jobs that pay little. If anything it costs the government money to keep people in these kinds of jobs with top ups and tax credits. The West doesn't need more people working in low paying labour as there is already chronic underemployment. These are not signs of an enhanced society, but are the hallmarks of serious decline. The future will see many low paying jobs becoming automised. Truck driving will decline as driverless cars take over, people on counters will decline as machines take their place, even today bookstores and music shops are fading as the Internet and downloading take over. Already those societies are putting the burden of the future on the credit card and it is a ponzi scheme that simply will not be able to sustain itself. Importing Mustaffa and his 4 kids is not really a solution to any of these chronic problems and will only cause further resentment.