Leonard v Hagler

[Mr140]

Ray could not fight for sometime because of the hearns fight his eye was pretty fucked up. Not to mention his come back right before he retired again he look shot and just plain bad pretty much. Leonard won that fight Hagler missed almost all his punches on Leonard and gave away rounds.

[Master]

Ray could not fight for sometime because of the hearns fight his eye was pretty fucked up. Not to mention his come back right before he retired again he look shot and just plain bad pretty much. Leonard won that fight Hagler missed almost all his punches on Leonard and gave away rounds.

Hagler did give away rounds and the first half of the fight and fighting orthodox did not help.

Leonard secretly trained probably for a year and was getting ready.

[Master]

Not sure how much there is to this, really just me thinking out loud, but I am of the opinion that the Hearns fight set Marvin up for failure. He walked through one of the most fearsome punchers in history and left him battered and broken, while soaking up adulation like he never had before. I feel that at that moment he felt invincible, and set his mind to not only outskilling his opponent, but truly dominating and destroying him. Marvin could have easily outfoxed and countered Mugabi to a knockout, but he craved that adulation from the Hearns fight, and likely felt the need to walk through a fearsome puncher again and take his soul (I feel like he did). Ray recognized the slight slip/abandoning of his skilled fighting style, as well as the hubris that would eventually lead to Marvin's defeat. I felt that Hagler won the fight, but in reality, it shouldn't have even been close.

As you said earlier Hagler was a very skilled intellegnet boxer in his early days but with age, slowing down, he relied on his chin, conditioning and punching to win his fights.

So I say it is more to do with age that toughness that made him have a war with Mugabi.

[Syntax Error]

What specifically did Leonard see in the Hagler v Mugabi fight that made him willing to step in with Marvalous and sure that he would beat him?

The beast was young, strong, powerful, hungry power puncher and undefeated when Marvin beat him in a good, competitive and exciting fight. Hagler stopped Mugabi and that should have scared Ray but instead he saw weaknesses. What?

It was Hagler's loss of speed.

Hagler had slowed down a lot since '84.

He looked slowish against Hearns & even slower against Mugabi.

By '86, Hagler had to lure his opponents into wars to beat them, as he did with Hearns & Mugabi: Leonard was never going to be stupid enough to stand & trade with the iron jawed Hagler.

Leonard gambled on his speed & won, just about.

[IamInuit]

What specifically did Leonard see in the Hagler v Mugabi fight that made him willing to step in with Marvalous and sure that he would beat him?

The beast was young, strong, powerful, hungry power puncher and undefeated when Marvin beat him in a good, competitive and exciting fight. Hagler stopped Mugabi and that should have scared Ray but instead he saw weaknesses. What?

It was Hagler's loss of speed.

Hagler had slowed down a lot since '84.

He looked slowish against Hearns & even slower against Mugabi.

By '86, Hagler had to lure his opponents into wars to beat them, as he did with Hearns & Mugabi: Leonard was never going to be stupid enough to stand & trade with the iron jawed Hagler.

Leonard gambled on his speed & won, just about.

It was a multitude of things and Leonard covered his bases. That is why he demanded a 20 foot ring that was really more like 22, 10 oz gloves instead of 8 and 12 rds instead of 15 if he agreed to Hagler getting the bigger purse.

By far and away though the biggest problem for Hagler goes back to the thread @Master started concerning confidence and arrogance. Hagler had not lost in 11 years and completely dismissed the idea that some welter was going to move up after being off 3 years and beat him.

Here is a quote from Hagler in an interview:

"I would say that the only advantage Leonard has over me is hand speed," Hagler admitted. "But he's not a better boxer, he won't be able to hurt me, he won't be able to take my shots and he certainly isn't going to outpunch me or outfight me on the inside. There is nothing Ray can do to win this fight."

[Master]

I did not know Hagler would be that arrogant in his biggest money fight of his career. I thought he prepared like a demon and did not like the mind games of Leonard.

When the fight was so close the factors of over confidence, size of the ring, gloves, 12 rounds etc made all the difference.

[Syntax Error]

I did not know Hagler would be that arrogant in his biggest money fight of his career. I thought he prepared like a demon and did not like the mind games of Leonard.

When the fight was so close the factors of over confidence, size of the ring, gloves, 12 rounds etc made all the difference.

I think Leonard got into his mind & played him like a fiddle.

Team Leonard allowed Hagler to have the lion's share of the purse (just), knowing full well that Marvin was obsessed with a big payday, whilst Leonard negotiated all the really important things in his favour.

[Master]

I did not know Hagler would be that arrogant in his biggest money fight of his career. I thought he prepared like a demon and did not like the mind games of Leonard.

When the fight was so close the factors of over confidence, size of the ring, gloves, 12 rounds etc made all the difference.

I think Leonard got into his mind & played him like a fiddle.

Team Leonard allowed Hagler to have the lion's share of the purse (just), knowing full well that Marvin was obsessed with a big payday, whilst Leonard negotiated all the really important things in his favour.

There was one moment in the fight Hagler had Leonard caught in the corner hurt and he smiled at Leonard thinking "yes, I've got you". I wished Marvin did.

[mrbig1]

Hagler just fought the wrong fight. He should have worked the body early and use the jab more. That's what gave Leonard the early rounds. I scored the fight 7-5 SRL. When Hagler is the boxer/puncher he's almost unbeatable. When he is just a puncher he's good but not great.

[Sleepwalker]

Hagler had the wrong mental attitude towards the fight. He underestimated Leonard from the start.

[Master]

Hagler just fought the wrong fight. He should have worked the body early and use the jab more. That's what gave Leonard the early rounds. I scored the fight 7-5 SRL. When Hagler is the boxer/puncher he's almost unbeatable. When he is just a puncher he's good but not great.

I had it 6-6 draw. The jusde that had it 10-2 needs to get his tongue out of Leonard's ass.

[Mr140]

To be fair the Leonard that beat Hagler was shot pretty much he was not going to do much reason i hold that win pretty high for Leonard. Can talk all you want about what he did but Leonard last great performance was Hearns before that win and his eye was fucked up really bad.

[Master]

To be fair the Leonard that beat Hagler was shot pretty much he was not going to do much reason i hold that win pretty high for Leonard. Can talk all you want about what he did but Leonard last great performance was Hearns before that win and his eye was fucked up really bad.

Leonard's victory against Hearns came at a great cost and that was his best victory. Hearns was a beast and Ray never avoided the fight and came from behind to win. I respect him greatly for that more than the victory against Hagler.

[brocktonblockbust]

While watching the Hagler fight I always got this feeling of desperation of quiet desperation for Marvin Hagler.. it was almost as if he knew the fight was slipping away or that Leonard had some kind of unseen advantage over him and that by about the seventh round he started to almost resign himself to that fact.

I have scored the fight 7 rounds to 5 for Leonard and also 6-6 a dRaw. I've only watched the fight three times. The third time I watched it I did not bother to score but only tried to feel the ebb and flow and the psychological advantage going on. Leonard had a kind of Mojo going on kind of like Muhammad Ali had and it was going to be tough for the judges not to be swayed by his hotdoggingness

[Mr140]

To me i think Lenoard won pretty clearly because of the opening rounds where Hagler chose to box and lost all of them the lead was to great for him to get win after that. Although Ray was bursting on Hagler at the end of rounds Hagler was also missing shit ton of shots he threw at Leonard.