The Myth of the British National Health Servi

[brocktonblockbust]

While in Wimbledon in 1991, at a pub with my German and American friends, the American fell while exiting and twisted badly his ankle requiring medical assistance. He was treated for free, not a penny asked, at the emergency room within 2 hours. Totally free. Though I stayed back at the pub by myself, the German drove the Yank to the hospital.

[Beanz]

While in Wimbledon in 1991, at a pub with my German and American friends, the American fell while exiting and twisted badly his ankle requiring medical assistance. He was treated for free, not a penny asked, at the emergency room within 2 hours. Totally free. Though I stayed back at the pub by myself, the German drove the Yank to the hospital.

How convenient for you, the question remains then, how did you evaluate the NHS as being "Piss" after such a positive experience?

[brocktonblockbust]

While in Wimbledon in 1991, at a pub with my German and American friends, the American fell while exiting and twisted badly his ankle requiring medical assistance. He was treated for free, not a penny asked, at the emergency room within 2 hours. Totally free. Though I stayed back at the pub by myself, the German drove the Yank to the hospital.

How convenient for you, the question remains then, how did you evaluate the NHS as being "Piss" after such a positive experience?

Beanz PISS NOW--- in '91 it was good, PISS NOW 2017

[Gandalf]

Both my father in law and sister have spent a lot of time in hospital over the last 12 months, and yes it isn't ideal but all in all the NHS was really good and the treatment excellent.
If we stop treating foreign people who come over to take advantage of the free health care , then the service would be better for the people who pay into the system.

Health tourists is one big suck on the NHS.

You shouldn't be allowed to use it unless you have a national insurance number or a valid working visa. That would soon cut out people going there as medical tourists. Otherwise, visitors should have private travel insurance and pay upfront. Do people really just go to the UK and get expensive treatments as tourists? Mindboggling.

[Beanz]

Both my father in law and sister have spent a lot of time in hospital over the last 12 months, and yes it isn't ideal but all in all the NHS was really good and the treatment excellent.If we stop treating foreign people who come over to take advantage of the free health care , then the service would be better for the people who pay into the system.

Health tourists is one big suck on the NHS.

You shouldn't be allowed to use it unless you have a national insurance number or a valid working visa. That would soon cut out people going there as medical tourists. Otherwise, visitors should have private travel insurance and pay upfront. Do people really just go to the UK and get expensive treatments as tourists? Mindboggling.

It's not quite that simple. As an EU citizen you would have the right to similar free treatment on other EU countries. It is obviously a problem but as usual it's nowhere near as binary as most want it to be. Oversimplification seems to have become the new starting point for debate.

[Gandalf]

Both my father in law and sister have spent a lot of time in hospital over the last 12 months, and yes it isn't ideal but all in all the NHS was really good and the treatment excellent.If we stop treating foreign people who come over to take advantage of the free health care , then the service would be better for the people who pay into the system.

Health tourists is one big suck on the NHS.

You shouldn't be allowed to use it unless you have a national insurance number or a valid working visa. That would soon cut out people going there as medical tourists. Otherwise, visitors should have private travel insurance and pay upfront. Do people really just go to the UK and get expensive treatments as tourists? Mindboggling.

It's not quite that simple. As an EU citizen you would have the right to similar free treatment on other EU countries. It is obviously a problem but as usual it's nowhere near as binary as most want it to be. Oversimplification seems to have become the new starting point for debate.

This article says that the cost to the NHS isn't that significant overall, but I don't know how they even reach the numbers they do. My thinking would be that if I was Romanian and had a serious condition, it would be more sensible to seek treatment in the UK rather than Romania. In a situation like that you could see how the UK would end up footing the bill and treatment in the UK would be much more than it is in Romania too. Then in the article the doctor mentions treating people outside of the EU for what amounts to tens of thousands of pounds. That's a lot of money! I wonder when it became the UK's responsibility to treat everyone? That's where for people not vested in the system, there should be better checks and balances. It seems very strange.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...overnment-cuts

Obviously the big problem with the NHS is that it has 40% less beds than in the 1980's. That is clearly a bit bonkers. There was a recent article saying that patients are having surgery cancelled just days before because beds are not available.

[El Kabong]

Both my father in law and sister have spent a lot of time in hospital over the last 12 months, and yes it isn't ideal but all in all the NHS was really good and the treatment excellent.
If we stop treating foreign people who come over to take advantage of the free health care , then the service would be better for the people who pay into the system.

Health tourists is one big suck on the NHS.

OH REALLY?!?!?!


Well who would have ever thought of THAT?

[Kirkland Laing]

The employer pays part of your system and the Obamacare part aren't failures. They supply healthcare to millions of people. They'll continue to do so but they're still rubbish, as is the for-profit insurance system and the for-profit hospital system.

Alright so then your original statement was false then...is that what you want to go with?

No. The Medicare part of your system works very well. The rest of the system works really badly. It's not a failure -- a million people signed up for Obamacare this year more than did last year! -- but it's a shit system. It won't ever fail, it can continue indefinitely just being a shit system. It should all be scrapped and a medicare for all system should be set up.

Now, can you answer the questions you've been dodging.

People are penalized if they don't sign up so this....

a million people signed up for Obamacare this year more than did last year!

isn't something to BE SUPER EXCITED ABOUT!!!


Medicare has worked alright BUT as with all entitlement programs when you have unfettered illegal and even legal immigration there will be a limiting of funds for future patients because those folks either haven't paid into the system for as long as they theoretically could have or they just don't pay into the system at all. Also as the population of the United States increases with age entitlements like Social Security and Medicare will feel the crunch of fewer people paying into a system that more people are making use of....that has always been the problem and will always be the problem with this kind of system.

What can be done to avoid this? Increasing the age of eligibility, increasing taxes, privatizing the system, abolishing the system and starting from scratch, younger generations have a baby boom and put them kids to work.


Obamacare was never meant to be the end game, Single Payer is the end game to which the Republicans/Conservatives/Libertarians would add on the option to upgrade your Insurance through the private sector...I think that will eventually come to pass and whether or not it will be any good is a mystery to me as anything can and will happen

As usual you're completely wrong. It's not like there's a huge Medicare fund that holds forty or fifty years of your Medicare taxes and then is used to pay out for your healthcare when you retire. The money the federal government takes in this year goes immediately to pay for this year's Medicare patients. It's an insurance scheme, like your car insurance. That means the best way to fund it is to maximise the number of people currently paying into the system, which means the more immigrants the better. Also, too, the average person pays $50k in Medicare taxes over the course of their working life and then receives $150k of treatment via Medicare. So paying into a fund can't work, increasing the number of people paying this year's Medicare bill is the way to increase funding for Medicare.

Privatising the US healthcare system just puts the cost of healthcare up. The US sytem is the most privatised in the world and the most expensive.



And for that the US gets a healthcare system that ranks thirty something in the world, just behind Costa Rica's. Experience from every OECD country shows that privatisation of the system costs far more than a single payer system (that doesn't take profits, it's pretty fucking obvious really).

And you're still dodging the questions. Here they are again.

He's either full of shit or he doesn't know what he's talking about and is just repeating what somebody like Ryan told him (don't worry Don, our replacement is going to be terrific! ((but actually is a piece of shit that allows Ryan to slash taxes on the 1%)) ) or he's proposing the biggest new entitlement programme since Medicare.

If he is proposing a massive new entitlement programme do you fancy paying for it? If it's a plan that actually takes away healthcare coverage from twenty million people, the most likely scenario, how do you feel about that?

[El Kabong]

Kirkland do you honestly believe that all illegal immigrants pay into the Medicare system? Naturalized Immigrants have to buy into the system unless they've worked 10 years in the US.

Medicare Paid $9.3M in Benefits to Illegal Immigrants

That's just what they caught.


But whatever Kirkland, be right all day and all night....thump your chest, shout it to the rooftops about how right you are, I really do not care.

[Kirkland Laing]

Kirkland do you honestly believe that all illegal immigrants pay into the Medicare system? Naturalized Immigrants have to buy into the system unless they've worked 10 years in the US.

Medicare Paid $9.3M in Benefits to Illegal Immigrants

That's just what they caught.


But whatever Kirkland, be right all day and all night....thump your chest, shout it to the rooftops about how right you are, I really do not care.

Ten million in a five hundred billion a year system isn't even a rounding error. Illegal immigrants can't get Medicare because they're illegal. But they all pay into the system via their Michael Mouse social security numbers. They just don't get any of those benefits. So illegal immigrants actually are better than legal immigrants as they pay into the system and don't get anything out.


And you're still dodging the questions. Here they are again.

He's either full of shit or he doesn't know what he's talking about and is just repeating what somebody like Ryan told him (don't worry Don, our replacement is going to be terrific! ((but actually is a piece of shit that allows Ryan to slash taxes on the 1%)) ) or he's proposing the biggest new entitlement programme since Medicare.

If he is proposing a massive new entitlement programme do you fancy paying for it? If it's a plan that actually takes away healthcare coverage from twenty million people, the most likely scenario, how do you feel about that?

[El Kabong]

Ten million in a five hundred billion a year system isn't even a rounding error. Illegal immigrants can't get Medicare because they're illegal. But they all pay into the system via their Michael Mouse social security numbers. They just don't get any of those benefits. So illegal immigrants actually are better than legal immigrants as they pay into the system and don't get anything out.


And you're still dodging the questions. Here they are again.

He's either full of shit or he doesn't know what he's talking about and is just repeating what somebody like Ryan told him (don't worry Don, our replacement is going to be terrific! ((but actually is a piece of shit that allows Ryan to slash taxes on the 1%)) ) or he's proposing the biggest new entitlement programme since Medicare.

If he is proposing a massive new entitlement programme do you fancy paying for it? If it's a plan that actually takes away healthcare coverage from twenty million people, the most likely scenario, how do you feel about that?

Illegal Immigrants can't get Medicare...ahhh a logical and well thought out response to a story that says Illegal Immigrants DID get Medicare.

Illegal Immigrants are actually better than legal immigrants......Sorry, But Illegal Aliens Cost The U.S. Plenty | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD no, no they aren't



Oh the good old Kirkland whine "answer my questions before I get triggered"

1. "If he is proposing a massive new entitlement programme do you fancy paying for it?"
Not really but what choice do I have? I didn't like HMO's either but I had to deal with the system. Healthcare is a difficult thing to find a middle ground where all people are happy with the outcome.


2. "If it's a plan that actually takes away healthcare coverage from twenty million people, the most likely scenario, how do you feel about that?"
I highly doubt that'll be the case and I don't think many folks are thinking it will be other than the pearl clutchers on the far left. If some people do lose coverage maybe it's not the worst thing in the world as some people (though I doubt you lose sleep worrying about them) were coerced into buying coverage in the first place....what about those poor people? 'I was going to buy a car, but I had to get health insurance or I was going to be fined'. We'll see what he does if it's a good idea I'll say, if it's a poor idea I'll say, there's not going to be a perfect answer regardless of who is in power but there are better healthcare options than Obamacare, do you disagree with that?

[brocktonblockbust]

Kirkland is a stupid white asshole. I live in Queens, NYC, asshole----30% of my students are fucking ILLEGALS AND THEY ALL HAVE MEDICARE/MEDICAID, EVERY ONE OF THOSE FUCKERS HAS IT, I HAVE SEEN THEIR CARDS, THEY HAVE BEEN GIVEN CITY OF NEW YORK I.D. CARDS AS WELL BY BILL DEBLASIO, AND MANY HAVE SHELLED OUT THE $675 FOR THE FAKE SS#.

KIRK THE FUCK DOESNT HAVE THE RIGHT TO EVEN OPEN HIS SEMEN-COATED LIPS TO TALK ABOUT MY FUCKING CITY.

[Kirkland Laing]

Ten million in a five hundred billion a year system isn't even a rounding error. Illegal immigrants can't get Medicare because they're illegal. But they all pay into the system via their Michael Mouse social security numbers. They just don't get any of those benefits. So illegal immigrants actually are better than legal immigrants as they pay into the system and don't get anything out.


And you're still dodging the questions. Here they are again.

He's either full of shit or he doesn't know what he's talking about and is just repeating what somebody like Ryan told him (don't worry Don, our replacement is going to be terrific! ((but actually is a piece of shit that allows Ryan to slash taxes on the 1%)) ) or he's proposing the biggest new entitlement programme since Medicare.

If he is proposing a massive new entitlement programme do you fancy paying for it? If it's a plan that actually takes away healthcare coverage from twenty million people, the most likely scenario, how do you feel about that?

Illegal Immigrants can't get Medicare...ahhh a logical and well thought out response to a story that says Illegal Immigrants DID get Medicare.

Illegal Immigrants are actually better than legal immigrants......Sorry, But Illegal Aliens Cost The U.S. Plenty | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD no, no they aren't



Oh the good old Kirkland whine "answer my questions before I get triggered"

1. "If he is proposing a massive new entitlement programme do you fancy paying for it?"
Not really but what choice do I have? I didn't like HMO's either but I had to deal with the system. Healthcare is a difficult thing to find a middle ground where all people are happy with the outcome.


2. "If it's a plan that actually takes away healthcare coverage from twenty million people, the most likely scenario, how do you feel about that?"
I highly doubt that'll be the case and I don't think many folks are thinking it will be other than the pearl clutchers on the far left. If some people do lose coverage maybe it's not the worst thing in the world as some people (though I doubt you lose sleep worrying about them) were coerced into buying coverage in the first place....what about those poor people? 'I was going to buy a car, but I had to get health insurance or I was going to be fined'. We'll see what he does if it's a good idea I'll say, if it's a poor idea I'll say, there's not going to be a perfect answer regardless of who is in power but there are better healthcare options than Obamacare, do you disagree with that?

Lyle, ten million dollars of illegal immigrant Medicaid spending (that was eventually discovered and stopped) is roughly 0.002% of the US government healthcare budget. There isn't any large scale business or organisation on the planet that has that small level of fraud. It's literally nothing, especially compared to the billions paid into the system by illegal immigrants via their dodgy social security numbers that they will never benefit from. What part of this don't you understand?

Never mind Lyle, it doesn't even matter anymore. This is the Trump era. You're entitled to your own set of facts now.

[Kirkland Laing]

Kirkland is a stupid white asshole. I live in Queens, NYC, asshole----30% of my students are fucking ILLEGALS AND THEY ALL HAVE MEDICARE/MEDICAID, EVERY ONE OF THOSE FUCKERS HAS IT, I HAVE SEEN THEIR CARDS, THEY HAVE BEEN GIVEN CITY OF NEW YORK I.D. CARDS AS WELL BY BILL DEBLASIO, AND MANY HAVE SHELLED OUT THE $675 FOR THE FAKE SS#.

KIRK THE FUCK DOESNT HAVE THE RIGHT TO EVEN OPEN HIS SEMEN-COATED LIPS TO TALK ABOUT MY FUCKING CITY.

Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. Most of these programs require proof of legal immigration status and under the 1996 welfare law, even legal immigrants cannot receive these benefits until they have been in the United States for more than five years.

5 immigration myths debunked - Nov. 20, 2014

And I have the right to an opinion on American politics and government spending. I pay taxes in your country. And especially in your city. I pay more in NY property taxes every year than you've earned in your lifetime.