Charlie Mingus

[brocktonblockbust]

Miles I never said those bands suck. I said COMPARED TO Mingus.

Its like comparing a 9th grader's art project with a DaVinci. The 9th grader may have kicked ass and we may like it a lot, but it AIN'T NO DAVINCI

[Gandalf]

No, it's more like comparing a diamond with gold. They both have their own particular qualities and according to taste you may have a preference for one but neither is better in any meaningful way as taste is subjective. I love Michael Nyman and love how he can arrange and compose music, but that doesn't mean I have less regard for Lou Reed who claimed to have mastered only a few chords. Michael Nyman would struggle to find the words and intonation that came so easily to Reed, but Reed wouldn't have the patience to do what Nyman did. They are just different types of music and both excelled in their fields. London Calling is a sublime album and I don't think it is like comparing a 9th grader with DaVinci at all. It's more like comparing Van Gogh with Da Vinci. They are very different artists and maybe you prefer one over the other, but Van Gogh was every bit as valid. London Calling is up there with any album. Mind you, you would have a hard time finding an album as bad as Cut the Crap, but every band or artist loses their way at some point. Maybe they have retreated back into the 9th grade when it comes to the career low point, but at it's peak, it is sublime and up there with anything else. It has the passion, energy and soul and that's what music should be. Pink Floyd are a very technical band, but I find them so fricking boring. That's what happens when middle class architects form bands.

[Gandalf]

BUT in saying that, millions of people love Pink Floyd, so maybe I am wrong to label them like that at the end like I did. I tried giving Dark Side of the Moon a go, but I found it really soulless and boring. I could see there was a lot of ability in how the music was played, but I found the songwriting quite workmanlike and pedestrian. Clearly not 9th grade art students, but middle class architecture graduates. Were the buildings gold or diamonds? That's up for debate. Some other time. I am out of here.

[vidgil]

It's a shame how certain posters took a beautiful thread about a jazz legend and turned it into yet another bitch fest. I guess that's all certain people have in their lives is some conflict on a forum. They feel like they're really moving the needle of life if they post a bunch of lame insults and unlistenable punk rock in a jazz thread.

Guys if I'm craving attention, I'll spend some time with my wife, kids or friends. I don't come onto a forum and try to antagonize people just so they'll pay attention to me. A certain poster really needs to look in the mirror and re-evaluate his life

[vidgil]

BUT in saying that, millions of people love Pink Floyd, so maybe I am wrong to label them like that at the end like I did. I tried giving Dark Side of the Moon a go, but I found it really soulless and boring. I could see there was a lot of ability in how the music was played, but I found the songwriting quite workmanlike and pedestrian. Clearly not 9th grade art students, but middle class architecture graduates. Were the buildings gold or diamonds? That's up for debate. Some other time. I am out of here.

We can agree there, I think Pink Floyd stink and are one of the most overrated bands of all time.

Soulless, boring clap trap like you said @Gandalf

[Gandalf]

BUT in saying that, millions of people love Pink Floyd, so maybe I am wrong to label them like that at the end like I did. I tried giving Dark Side of the Moon a go, but I found it really soulless and boring. I could see there was a lot of ability in how the music was played, but I found the songwriting quite workmanlike and pedestrian. Clearly not 9th grade art students, but middle class architecture graduates. Were the buildings gold or diamonds? That's up for debate. Some other time. I am out of here.

We can agree there, I think Pink Floyd stink and are one of the most overrated bands of all time.

Soulless, boring clap trap like you said @Gandalf

It is an interesting thing to debate. I gave the example of diamonds and gold as I think you can enjoy different types of music that are of the finest vintage in their fields, but when it comes to a band like Pink Floyd I don't like them so my diamonds and gold analogy somewhat goes out of the window. I can see that it is technically well made, but when I look into the core it seems empty. That's where I can appreciate the vibrancy and life of some punk rock. It's a kick in the face to the notion that being well versed in your instrument gives you direct ascendancy to the Gods.

I was listening to The Kinks Village Green the other day and that's a song that does touch me. It is well crafted, melodic and the lyrics are so well written. The music and words are so English. They invoke a nostalgia for another era, another time. Images of 'morning dew' and 'chuch steeples' and the lost girl 'Daisy' who stays in the village and marries Tom the grocer boy. I am a sucker for a really well crafted song, with thoughtful words, and melody. Good musicianship is a plus, but it isn't the be all and end all as proven by Pink Floyd.

I used to be more of a snob when I was younger, but I am not out to bash anyones music really. If people like Pink Floyd, I can at least respect it. The younger me would sneer, but I have become much more tolerant. Doesn't mean I like everything though, I am quite picky, and feel comfortable with the music that speaks to me and that I feel. I'm not all that into jazz either, but agains fair play to those that do. I probably haven't given it enough time.

[Beanz]

It's a shame how certain posters took a beautiful thread about a jazz legend and turned it into yet another bitch fest. I guess that's all certain people have in their lives is some conflict on a forum. They feel like they're really moving the needle of life if they post a bunch of lame insults and unlistenable punk rock in a jazz thread.

Guys if I'm craving attention, I'll spend some time with my wife, kids or friends. I don't come onto a forum and try to antagonize people just so they'll pay attention to me. A certain poster really needs to look in the mirror and re-evaluate his life

Take a deep breath. If you are going to open a thread with stupid comments like
Loud, aggressive music is good in small doses, but if you indulge too much it will rot your brain, corrupt your palate and turn you into a lazy communist (especially if you listen to too much punk rock).


Then don't be so surprised when not everybody agrees with you. Maybe that is what too much winning does to you. I totally understand that you don't really seem to have any sense of humour and are a bit serious for such a young guy but you also seem to have a very selective memory like your mentor Brockton. When your @mention a specific poster in your third post


I think @Beanz would like Charles Mingus, being such a tough guy!



Then you can hardly moan if I then choose to post in it. I don't crave conflict or attention and the fact that I choose not to post that much in here anymore would for most people indicate that it certainly is not all I have in my life. There seems to be an awful lot of projection in your posts and I don't quite know where the hostility is coming from. Even at your age, while like most young men I could be a right prick, I don't think I was as obnoxious as you are suggesting I am now and would certainly not have been arrogant enough to tell another poster to look in the mirror and re-evaluate their life.

So maybe we can start again and try to find some common ground.

I like all kinds of music. When it is such a big part of your professional life as it has and continues to be for me then that goes without saying. You wouldn't know but the veteran posters here who know me would realise this, so forgive me if the humour was somewhat lost on you. I have shot the breeze many times with P4PKing and other posters on Oscar Peterson and Miles Davis and old blues legends like Odetta, klezmar and folk music and have tried for many years to try and get Miles to enjoy and appreciate Jazz and black music generally. That said, Punk is not about not being able to play your instruments and just being angry. It's not even just about music, it has influenced filmmaking, photography, fashion,politics etc. If it were that vacuous then the veterans, some of whom are now in their 70's and still writing, gigging and recording, would have moved on years ago. Two of the most memorable gigs I covered last year were those played by veteran punk or Ska bands that had everyone from kids in their twenties to punk in their sixties packed wall to wall in venues because the songwriting and vitality of their material still stands up today.



so here moving on from Miles post is Ray Davies form the Kinks on Mingus

[Beanz]

And here is the Ray Davies film about Mingus. You will notice the first person to talk about Mingus is Elvis Costello who I would consider a Punk to the core and a consummate musician and songwriter right up there with the best

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