Maccarinelli v Bellew Prime for Prime

[Fenster]

Hold up a minute... Enzo is a "worthy, multi-defence champion" and Bellew is a "made-up, unproven champion?"

Enzo was HANDED the WBO title vacated by Johnny Nelson, he didn't win it in the ring. He then defended it against Mark Hobson, a previous British level victim of his, before facing Bobby 'the bare knuckle gypo' Gunn (Enzo was as short as 4/1 to win in the 1st round, which thankfully he duly did. Kerching!) and scored his best win over Wayne Braithwaite (who many argued was "shot"). He then had another gimme against a no-mark before getting mullered by Haye. And that was his "worthy championship reign."

Bellew pulled off a big upset to win the vacant WBC title sparking Ilunga Makabu. He also has wins over Masternak, Cleverly (yeah, I know he's not a cruiser but proven world-class) the commentator and Brudov among some other no-mark wins.

Lets keep it fair.

[erics44]

yeah I agree, when you look at it Enzos career hasn't been that impressive when you consider him as a World Champ, not as impressive as Bellews anyway

His best win was Braithwaite, who went on to beat Hernandez BTW so he cant have been that shot, but still, who else did Enzo beat?

[Primo Carnera]

Hold up a minute... Enzo is a "worthy, multi-defence champion" and Bellew is a "made-up, unproven champion?"

Enzo was HANDED the WBO title vacated by Johnny Nelson, he didn't win it in the ring. He then defended it against Mark Hobson, a previous British level victim of his, before facing Bobby 'the bare knuckle gypo' Gunn (Enzo was as short as 4/1 to win in the 1st round, which thankfully he duly did. Kerching!) and scored his best win over Wayne Braithwaite (who many argued was "shot"). He then had another gimme against a no-mark before getting mullered by Haye. And that was his "worthy championship reign."

Bellew pulled off a big upset to win the vacant WBC title sparking Ilunga Makabu. He also has wins over Masternak, Cleverly (yeah, I know he's not a cruiser but proven world-class) the commentator and Brudov among some other no-mark wins.

Lets keep it fair.

Yes, Enzo is a multi defence Champion - FACT as you would say. 5 defences , opponents with combined career records of 124-13-4. Bellew is an unproven champ , who got his chance after fighting non CW's (Cleverley & others where he came in half a stone below the limit.) and has defended it once against a hand picked part time commentator - FACT.

[Master]

Primo is right for once.

Enzo is the natural cruiserweight and would use his natural height, reach and power to beat Bellew.

[Alpha]

Tough fight to call. I think Bellew pulls it off. Macca's chin lets him down again.

[Primo Carnera]

Primo is right for once.

Enzo is the natural cruiserweight and would use his natural height, reach and power to beat Bellew.

Hold on a minute......"FOR ONCE?"

[Fenster]

Yes, Enzo is a multi defence Champion - FACT as you would say. 5 defences , opponents with combined career records of 124-13-4. Bellew is an unproven champ , who got his chance after fighting non CW's (Cleverley & others where he came in half a stone below the limit.) and has defended it once against a hand picked part time commentator - FACT.

Actually it was four defences, he wasn't given the WBO title until Nelson retired, which makes the combined opponents - 86-8-3.

Bellew won the WBC title - in the ring - against the no.1 ranked WBC fighter, the combined record of his title fight opponents is - 53-3-1. If you throw in his European title win, which immediately preceded those, it's 87-6-1.

So even if we ignore the actual substance of the fighters (which is obviously silly, as light-heavy Cleverly, or the "Commentator" alone, would easily beat everyone Enzo beat apart from Braithwaite), the numbers suggest Bellew's winning cruiserweight title fights matchup well with Enzo's.

To address another point - Enzo is the "natural" cruiserweight that dropped down to lightheavy. Bellew is a lightheavy that is about to fight at heavyweight. Enzo is an inch taller. They have the same reach.

(I love boxrec) Fact.

[Primo Carnera]

Yes, Enzo is a multi defence Champion - FACT as you would say. 5 defences , opponents with combined career records of 124-13-4. Bellew is an unproven champ , who got his chance after fighting non CW's (Cleverley & others where he came in half a stone below the limit.) and has defended it once against a hand picked part time commentator - FACT.

Actually it was four defences, he wasn't given the WBO title until Nelson retired, which makes the combined opponents - 86-8-3.

Bellew won the WBC title - in the ring - against the no.1 ranked WBC fighter, the combined record of his title fight opponents is - 53-3-1. If you throw in his European title win, which immediately preceded those, it's 87-6-1.

So even if we ignore the actual substance of the fighters (which is obviously silly, as light-heavy Cleverly, or the "Commentator" alone, would easily beat everyone Enzo beat apart from Braithwaite), the numbers suggest Bellew's winning cruiserweight title fights matchup well with Enzo's.

To address another point - Enzo is the "natural" cruiserweight that dropped down to lightheavy. Bellew is a lightheavy that is about to fight at heavyweight. Enzo is an inch taller. They have the same reach.

(I love boxrec) Fact.

yeah, Boxrec is great for facts, but it also means you don't have to twist the facts. My post compared title defences . the reason for that is to show who was a worthy champion and who wasn't. The WBC International and EBU fights are meaningless. they were step up fights and most of the time one or neither fighter was anywhere near the CW limit. now before you say "it's up to that weight, you don't have to go in on the limit," that's as may be , but they can hardly be seen as a credible build up to a World title bid.
Bellew got the shot because the power and money of Matchroom and Sky got him the shot. To be fair , he won fair and square against what was billed as a tough credible champion. I'm not too sure people had that right, but hey-ho. What does he do next? try to unify? No. HE , and let's not forget he's World Champion, decides to take on a part time commentator. and then HE , as a World champion CALLS OUT somebody in a different division.
a lot of double standards here . Bellew keeps saying Haye is only in it for the money and is bad for Boxing, whereas infact , It's Bellew who is bending over backwards to whore himself out to the masses and take non credible match ups.
Maccarinelli was an honest , genuine Fighter. Bellew is an overrated joke, even if he beat Haye!

[Fenster]

Double standards is exactly what i'm pointing out. You keep rattling on about "deserve" and "worthy" but what made Enzo deserve or worthy of being given the WBO title?

He defended it against a former British level fighter that got splattered at European level - a man he'd previously beat. What made Hobson worthy of a title shot? Bobby Gunn was a once retired bare knuckle club fighter, Enzo (Frank Warren) rightly got absolutely slaughtered for masquerading a mismatch as a "world" title fight. What made Gunn worthy? Mohamed Azzaoui was a part-time lawnmower man from the hotbed of New Zealand who magically became ranked no.15 by the WBO when the fight was announced. What made him worthy? These guys never got close to world-class before or after facing Enzo yet you think BJ Flores is a joke voluntary defence. Double standards? BJ Flores at least challenged at world level before Bellew, and is a much more "worthy" opponent than the three Enzo defense victims.

Bellew had six cruiserweight fights which included winning the European title. He was ranked no.6 by the WBC who ordered a shot at no.1 Makabu. How is that any different, bogus to how anyone else gets a title shot?

[erics44]

i've changed my mind on my own poll

I think Bellew would win

you'd confidently put Bellew in with Ledbedev and Afolabi wouldn't you?

[Master]

i've changed my mind on my own poll

I think Bellew would win

you'd confidently put Bellew in with Ledbedev and Afolabi wouldn't you?

Yes but I would expect both of them and Orvil McKenzie to beat Bellew.