Should other countries implement a 'Prison Fighters' program like Thailand?

[Alpha]

You hear a lot about guys who would have been professional fighters in different eras but have migrated towards other bigger paying sports of today. Prisons all over the world are full of potential talent. Do you think other countries should start boxing competitions like the 5 rounds to freedom show based on Thailand's modern day Prison Fight program; where convicted criminals are given the chance to fight for their release?

[wanderingfighter]

You hear a lot about guys who would have been professional fighters in different eras but have migrated towards other bigger paying sports of today. Prisons all over the world are full of potential talent. Do you think other countries should start boxing competitions like the 5 rounds to freedom show based on Thailand's modern day Prison Fight program; where convicted criminals are given the chance to fight for their release?

I think that the western arts lack the spiritual and cultural aspects of Thai boxing. This is something that's a bit hard to explain but it goes beyond just seeing two guys fight in a boxing ring. Thai boxing is engraved into Thai culture along with its religion. This is a culture that emphasizes forgiveness, compassion and a minimalist approach to life.

In the west our survival relies on the collection of money, and our role models (or who we secretly aspire to be) are often assholes in suits. Our culture emphasizes the complete opposite way of life of the Thai people-whose survival is often linked to their family. I mean just think about who the role model for the Thais is....Buddha? A compassionate and forgiving being. Look up to the 8 precepts of Buddhism while you are it. These concepts are drilled into the children at a young age due to the dominance the Buddhist religion has over the educational system in Thailand.

Thai boxing also emphasizes a very strong student to teacher relationship. I don't see this being emphasized in the western arts anymore. I can see how the process of fighting for freedom out of a Thai prison can work to be a form of rehabilitation for these prisoners. Their teachers also become father figures (most of the problems dysfunctional men have are linked to this issue in someway). Then you need to take in account the Buddhist philosophy that comes with practicing the art (and it's probably being drilled into the mind of the prisoners), so I think it continuously reinforces positive habits.

Honestly to keep it short- I think the people in our societies are just too dysfunctional for the most part, and our prison systems are dysfunctional as well. I don't see how it can work.

[Alpha]

Not to disagree with you but following Buddhism didn't help them stay out of prison. You can use the same premise for many of the disadvantaged youth around the world who have made it out of the 'gutter' to compete on the world level. Mike Tyson for example with Gus. Hopkins is a great example of an ex con turning his life around.

My point was with most modern day athletes moving towards better paying & arguably less dangerous sports' NFL, Rugby etc and there being a lack of depth and talent could it be further sourced from prisons with a boxing program that gave them a chance to fight their way to freedom. Boxing installs stuff like discipline and respect that could help prisons deal with life on the outside. Obviously it won't work for everyone as you only have to look at today's current crop of talent to realize it is up to the individual on how they choose to behave.

[wanderingfighter]

Not to disagree with you but following Buddhism didn't help them stay out of prison. You can use the same premise for many of the disadvantaged youth around the world who have made it out of the 'gutter' to compete on the world level. Mike Tyson for example with Gus. Hopkins is a great example of an ex con turning his life around.

My point was with most modern day athletes moving towards better paying & arguably less dangerous sports' NFL, Rugby etc and there being a lack of depth and talent could it be further sourced from prisons with a boxing program that gave them a chance to fight their way to freedom. Boxing installs stuff like discipline and respect that could help prisons deal with life on the outside. Obviously it won't work for everyone as you only have to look at today's current crop of talent to realize it is up to the individual on how they choose to behave.

The difference here is that for the most part the lower class Thai shabu peddler who's in prison is likely to have strong family ties. He's likely to be spiritual or have some belief in a higher power, possibly even respectful to elders and other people and perhaps he's likely to be driven less by his ego. If these habits or beliefs are not visibly there, they are likely to be dormant and could be triggered via deep inner work. It's engraved into them since they are kids. I have spent a lot of time in slums in Thailand and I got to see how some (not all) parents connect with their children. Thai culture places a very big emphasis on these beliefs. Therefore if he's truly rehabilitated via martial arts practice the odds are that he would practice the right path after release from prison. When I say right path I mean that odds are that he would be a functional member of society even at the lowest economic levels.

The average "disadvantaged youth" who's in prison in the US would try to fight you over you staring at him. This is probably worse if he's been recently released from prison since the broken rehabilitation system environment only makes things worse. Don't believe me just take a ride on the L train in NYC sometime this summer and get out in some of those subway stations at night and go have a drink. The average "disadvantaged youth" in the US treats other people like dirt and that includes the elderly and weak and possibly his own family. It's all about "me" "me" and today's American society is riddled with anxiety, fear, consumerism and hate. The odds heavily favor that if you grant a former street meth or crack peddler freedom over a boxing match, you'll just be adding another meth or crack peddler to society 2 weeks later.

Also I think we are not talking about the Mike Tyson's and Hopkin's here. Those guys built championship habits since they were 7 to 12 years old. They went into prison with established habits and previous student to master relationships with their trainers. I think they are outliers in some ways.

With these prison matches in Thailand we are talking about people who fundamentally have broken habit routines and are being rehabilitated via Buddhist philosophy and training at a late stage in their life. These are the 25-40 year olds who would probably never win a 'worthy' match at the big stadiums in Thailand. The same fighters from a western boxing perspective would default into fighting 4 rounders at the lower venues in under card matches or being stepping stones for young men who started developing at 10 years old.

I doubt that the average 25 to 40 year old prison fighter without an amateur background and a properly developed cardiovascular system would ever be anything more than fringe contender at his best in western boxing. Habits make winners, not talent and sadly habits cannot be 'totally' replaced. They can be masked by working hard at rewiring our responses to the cues that trigger them, but in order for that to happen deep work needs to be done and it won't happen only via boxing training.

[Master]

I think Eddie Hearn would monopolise the idea and sell it like a freak show to the masses.

Boxing as a discipline should be encouraged in schools though.

[Alpha]

The thing is there are many ethnicity's throughout prisons of the world. Lets use American -Mexicans as an example. Boxing is in their blood. Many have been around gyms from an early age. One of the biggest hurdles for cons when they get out is a lack of support system. Which is why many fall back into bad habits from those they associate with. If they had a program that developed them while inside and then continued to assist them once they were released they may be able to continue to keep focused and dedicated and away from temptation. It really comes down to the individual to want to change and make something better with their lives.

[Master]

The thing is there are many ethnicity's throughout prisons of the world. Lets use American -Mexicans as an example. Boxing is in their blood. Many have been around gyms from an early age. One of the biggest hurdles for cons when they get out is a lack of support system. Which is why many fall back into bad habits from those they associate with. If they had a program that developed them while inside and then continued to assist them once they were released they may be able to continue to keep focused and dedicated and away from temptation. It really comes down to the individual to want to change and make something better with their lives.

Yes, free will, making the right decisions and taking responsibility for your own actions.