Marvin Hagler v Gennady Golovkin

[mikeeod]

Have to admit that I'm shocked at some of the answers. People tend to remember Hagler as the warrior who stood toe to toe vs Hearns, Mugabi, and Leonard (tried to vs Ray), understandably. Prime Hagler was much much better than that version, and was probably one of the top two or three most complete fighters ever. People forget that he was pretty quick, was a great boxer, and was able to fight effectively from the southpaw and orthodox stance, usually because Marvin's punch, chin, and stamina/work ethic overshadow everything else. I see Marvin boxing GGG silly, and stopping him late through attrition and accumulation of punishment.

[erics44]

you can never have a debate like this on a boxing forum or with boxing fans and get an accurate answer, even with those that are not really old enough to have experienced hagler

Boxing is a nostalgic sport and Hagler would win every single time, when in reality he would probably be knocked out like most of Golovkins other opponents

[mikeeod]

you can never have a debate like this on a boxing forum or with boxing fans and get an accurate answer, even with those that are not really old enough to have experienced hagler

Boxing is a nostalgic sport and Hagler would win every single time, when in reality he would probably be knocked out like most of Golovkins other opponents

You think Hagler would be knocked out by GGG? Or were you just saying that people automatically choose fighters of previous generations for reasons related to nostalgia. Can see your point regarding nostalgia clouding judgement. Completely disagree that Hagler is stopped by any middleweight who ever lived, let alone GGG.

[El Kabong]

Any middleweight who ever lived? So let's say a Middleweight RJJ fought Hagler....RJJ wouldn't be able to stop him? Ezzard Charles as a middleweight wouldn't stop him? I just find that a bit hard to believe. Hagler was solid and had a granite chin, but un-knock-out-able I don't think he was.

[mikeeod]

Any middleweight who ever lived? So let's say a Middleweight RJJ fought Hagler....RJJ wouldn't be able to stop him? Ezzard Charles as a middleweight wouldn't stop him? I just find that a bit hard to believe. Hagler was solid and had a granite chin, but un-knock-out-able I don't think he was.

I don't see Roy stopping him. I just don't see it. At best Roy would outspeed him similar to his fights vs Hop and Toney. He never had either of those two in trouble and I don't see either having a better chin than Hagler.

Charles was a great fighter, in my opinion the GOAT at light heavy, but haven't seen much film of him at 160. He peaked at 175, so that leads me to believe that his strength/power may have suffered at 160. Things just "click" for certain fighters at certain weights. Hagler clicked at 160, and Charles clicked at 175. I don't see either being stopped at either weight by anyone.

[Ron Swanson]

GGG does his best work when the opponent takes time off. When would he get his best work done against Hagler? Bad matchup for GGG

[Beanz]

Is it over 12 or 15 ?


I don't see anyone stopping Golovkin either but there are many fighters who seem unknockoutable until it happens. My head says Hagler on points because of his ability to readjust and find angles but maybe Gennady is more Marvelous than Marvin where heart is concerned, hard to tell until someone is able to really put it on him.

Hagler- close points decision.

[Alpha]

Any middleweight who ever lived? So let's say a Middleweight RJJ fought Hagler....RJJ wouldn't be able to stop him? Ezzard Charles as a middleweight wouldn't stop him? I just find that a bit hard to believe. Hagler was solid and had a granite chin, but un-knock-out-able I don't think he was.

It would be a small list of middleweights that would have been able to stop Hagler. Jackson, Ketchel, McClellan, Benn, Graziano, Hearns, Robinson, Jones Jr., Fitzsimmons, Langford, Fernandez. Possibly a few more I'd give a chance. Not saying these guys would knock him out but if they landed clean they could have.

[powerpuncher]

Any middleweight who ever lived? So let's say a Middleweight RJJ fought Hagler....RJJ wouldn't be able to stop him? Ezzard Charles as a middleweight wouldn't stop him? I just find that a bit hard to believe. Hagler was solid and had a granite chin, but un-knock-out-able I don't think he was.

It would be a small list of middleweights that would have been able to stop Hagler. Jackson, Ketchel, McClellan, Benn, Graziano, Hearns, Robinson, Jones Jr., Fitzsimmons, Langford, Fernandez. Possibly a few more I'd give a chance. Not saying these guys would knock him out but if they landed clean they could have.

I'm assuming that any person in the history of the world could possibly be knocked out by a hard shot. Hagler had as granite of a chin as there ever was in boxing history. So is it possible he got KO'd? Sure. But it would be about as likely as McGregor beating mayweather in a boxing match.

Not only did hagler have a great chin, but he was a good enough boxer that he didn't just get hit flush over and over. It's not as if he didn't know how to move if he were hurt.

[Alpha]

Any middleweight who ever lived? So let's say a Middleweight RJJ fought Hagler....RJJ wouldn't be able to stop him? Ezzard Charles as a middleweight wouldn't stop him? I just find that a bit hard to believe. Hagler was solid and had a granite chin, but un-knock-out-able I don't think he was.

It would be a small list of middleweights that would have been able to stop Hagler. Jackson, Ketchel, McClellan, Benn, Graziano, Hearns, Robinson, Jones Jr., Fitzsimmons, Langford, Fernandez. Possibly a few more I'd give a chance. Not saying these guys would knock him out but if they landed clean they could have.

I'm assuming that any person in the history of the world could possibly be knocked out by a hard shot. Hagler had as granite of a chin as there ever was in boxing history. So is it possible he got KO'd? Sure. But it would be about as likely as McGregor beating mayweather in a boxing match.

Not only did hagler have a great chin, but he was a good enough boxer that he didn't just get hit flush over and over. It's not as if he didn't know how to move if he were hurt.

Exactly and it would have to be someone in the company of those punchers to do it.

[Master]

Hagler's chin was one of the best in history, any fighter who can withstand the right hand of Hearns is unstoppable.

[El Kabong]

Hagler's chin was one of the best in history, any fighter who can withstand the right hand of Hearns is unstoppable.

OK, I understand that, I accept that, BUT just because I'm me how's about we consider just for a second Tommy Hearns' legs in the Hagler fight. It is well known that Tommy's legs were in poor shape in that fight ergo the toe to toe war we got because Tommy couldn't move, but that being the case, if your legs are injured at all it's going to take SOMETHING away from your power because power punchers punch with their entire body, feet all the way to the knuckles, Tommy didn't have his legs at 100% and therefore his power wasn't at 100%.....Marvin Hagler had some set of whiskers and maybe who knows, maybe if Tommy is 100% healthy maybe Marvin still looks Marvelous taking those shots but who knows, it's certainly something to consider.

[Master]

Hagler's chin was one of the best in history, any fighter who can withstand the right hand of Hearns is unstoppable.

OK, I understand that, I accept that, BUT just because I'm me how's about we consider just for a second Tommy Hearns' legs in the Hagler fight. It is well known that Tommy's legs were in poor shape in that fight ergo the toe to toe war we got because Tommy couldn't move, but that being the case, if your legs are injured at all it's going to take SOMETHING away from your power because power punchers punch with their entire body, feet all the way to the knuckles, Tommy didn't have his legs at 100% and therefore his power wasn't at 100%.....Marvin Hagler had some set of whiskers and maybe who knows, maybe if Tommy is 100% healthy maybe Marvin still looks Marvelous taking those shots but who knows, it's certainly something to consider.

I believe Hearns went for broke earlier while he still had power of his legs and it sliced Hagler's head.

If Hagler was going to be stopped it would be for that or being stopped standing on his feet like La Motta.

[X]

It is well known that Tommy's legs were in poor shape in that fight ergo the toe to toe war we got because Tommy couldn't move, but that being the case, if your legs are injured at all it's going to take SOMETHING away from your power.

In the dressing room just before the fight, one of Tommy's buddies (a guy called Skidoo) was giving his legs a rubdown. He thought he was trying to help, but it warms down the muscles and puts them into recovery mode.

Thats the last thing you want BEFORE a fight.

Manny Stewart went completely apeshit and threw all the guys out of the dressing room. When they were alone, Manny told Tommy to change his tactics and jump on Hagler straight away.

He didn't tell him that his legs were going to gas out after the rubdown, to avoid putting doubt in his boxer's mind. Tommy didn't have any leg injury.

By that point in his career, Hearns was in love with his straight right. He wanted to absolutely devastate Hagler and he was confident he would do it, so he loved Manny's advice and certainly took it.

Funnily enough, Tommy was a master boxer and once he had severely cut Hagler, he could have gone on his bike for a couple of rounds and the ref would have stopped the fight.

Problem is, in his mind, Tommy was just a right hand and nothing else in that fight.

[Master]

It is well known that Tommy's legs were in poor shape in that fight ergo the toe to toe war we got because Tommy couldn't move, but that being the case, if your legs are injured at all it's going to take SOMETHING away from your power.

In the dressing room just before the fight, one of Tommy's buddies (a guy called Skidoo) was giving his legs a rubdown. He thought he was trying to help, but it warms down the muscles and puts them into recovery mode.

Thats the last thing you want BEFORE a fight.

Manny Stewart went completely apeshit and threw all the guys out of the dressing room. When they were alone, Manny told Tommy to change his tactics and jump on Hagler straight away.

He didn't tell him that his legs were going to gas out after the rubdown, to avoid putting doubt in his boxer's mind. Tommy didn't have any leg injury.

By that point in his career, Hearns was in love with his straight right. He wanted to absolutely devastate Hagler and he was confident he would do it, so he loved Manny's advice and certainly took it.

Funnily enough, Tommy was a master boxer and once he had severely cut Hagler, he could have gone on his bike for a couple of rounds and the ref would have stopped the fight.

Problem is, in his mind, Tommy was just a right hand and nothing else in that fight.

Tommy also injured, if not broke, that right hand when it landed on Hagler's hard head.

Just as I do not see Hagler being stopped I do not see GGG being stopped. If a full blown cruiser weight who can punch could not hurt Golovkin then Hagler would not either.