Vasyl Lomachenko is P4P #1

[Spicoli]

His skill speaks for itself, he's tremendous. But I need to see him face more adversity and pressure, simply see more. Every fighter on the list can be hacked apart if based on competition. He lost to Salido. Martinez arguably also lost to Salido rematch. Can anyone name unranked Russells most impressive 'huge fight' victory prior to facing Loma? I'm still wondering when Walters actually quit in that fight, was it on his stool and after a couple rounds of being bedazzled. Sosa had no business there and clearly lost to Walters. All a guy can do is dominate his opponents and it becomes a double edge sword. I believe Crawford has shown just as much if not more adjustment in a ring when breaking down his opponent and he actually had to work for and earn his professional network spot and platform.

[Alpha]

His skill speaks for itself, he's tremendous. But I need to see him face more adversity and pressure, simply see more. Every fighter on the list can be hacked apart if based on competition. He lost to Salido. Martinez arguably also lost to Salido rematch. Can anyone name unranked Russells most impressive 'huge fight' victory prior to facing Loma? I'm still wondering when Walters actually quit in that fight, was it on his stool and after a couple rounds of being bedazzled. Sosa had no business there and clearly lost to Walters. All a guy can do is dominate his opponents and it becomes a double edge sword. I believe Crawford has shown just as much if not more adjustment in a ring when breaking down his opponent and he actually had to work for and earn his professional network spot and platform.

That's what I'm saying apart from Walters who was possibly #1 at 126 Loma hasn't really fought the best in his division(s). I doubt Russell was ranked and if he was it was bottom half. Martinez and Sosa were not at the top. Ward stepped up a division to fight Kov; considered the best at 175. I thought Kov won. Gonzalez has been in with the best of 4 divisions and should still be undefeated. Crawford beat Postol who was considered the #2 and biggest challenge in the division. Garcia holds wins over Salido, Martinez and took out Zlaticanin who was considered the #2 guy at 135 (and who Linares had arguably avoided) making Garcia a 3 weight champion. I understand the buzz and watching Loma fight it is hard to deny those skills but personally I feel many are getting ahead of themselves.

That's not even taking into account a guy like Shinsuke Yamanaka. Even Inoue's record is arguably better than Loma's. Rigo ain't done sh-t lately but at least he beat a P4P guy in Donaire.

[Spicoli]

His skill speaks for itself, he's tremendous. But I need to see him face more adversity and pressure, simply see more. Every fighter on the list can be hacked apart if based on competition. He lost to Salido. Martinez arguably also lost to Salido rematch. Can anyone name unranked Russells most impressive 'huge fight' victory prior to facing Loma? I'm still wondering when Walters actually quit in that fight, was it on his stool and after a couple rounds of being bedazzled. Sosa had no business there and clearly lost to Walters. All a guy can do is dominate his opponents and it becomes a double edge sword. I believe Crawford has shown just as much if not more adjustment in a ring when breaking down his opponent and he actually had to work for and earn his professional network spot and platform.

That's what I'm saying apart from Walters who was possibly #1 at 126 Loma hasn't really fought the best in his division(s). I doubt Russell was ranked and if he was it was bottom half. Martinez and Sosa were not at the top. Ward stepped up a division to fight Kov; considered the best at 175. I thought Kov won. Gonzalez has been in with the best of 4 divisions and should still be undefeated. Crawford beat Postol who was considered the #2 and biggest challenge in the division. Garcia holds wins over Salido, Martinez and took out Zlaticanin who was considered the #2 guy at 135 (and who Linares had arguably avoided) making Garcia a 3 weight champion. I understand the buzz and watching Loma fight it is hard to deny those skills but personally I feel many are getting ahead of themselves.

That's not even taking into account a guy like Shinsuke Yamanaka. Even Inoue's record is arguably better than Loma's. Rigo ain't done sh-t lately but at least he beat a P4P guy in Donaire.

I always try to avoid the p4p stuff because you simply cannot imo define a clear check list of merit. It's all subjective and honestly has much to do with high profiles and marketability. Putting them there based on weight divisions gained or even 'official' ranked guys beat can be another rabbit hole because the validity of those trinkets held and ranking can be equally subjective if not steered that direction for a more well known guy. It's refreshing to see Inoue on Rings list but there was a point when every single guy was a regular on hbo or Showtime. Broner was once placed at 5 based solely on hype, frankly manufactured multi division trinkets and perceived future 'greatness'. It was laughable. I never bought Gonzalez as #1 because he simply gets hit too much, sounds crazy I know.

[Alpha]

Gonzalez does get hit but that's his style. The fact he's taking punches from guys at 115 and fighting them toe to toe is a credit to his ability and chin. Just the names alone on his record establish him as one of the best around. Niida, Takayama, Estrada, Yaegashi, Viloria, Cuadras, Wangek. Ioka wanted no part of him. His desire to fight the top guys is admirable.

[TitoFan]

Gonzalez does get hit but that's his style. The fact he's taking punches from guys at 115 and fighting them toe to toe is a credit to his ability and chin. Just the names alone on his record establish him as one of the best around. Niida, Takayama, Estrada, Yaegashi, Viloria, Cuadras, Wangek. Ioka wanted no part of him. His desire to fight the top guys is admirable.

Arroyo was no slouch either, having previously only lost a close SD to Amnat Ruenroeng in his home turf in Thailand. Ruenroeng has since lost his title, but Arroyo provided Gonzalez a pretty stiff test.

[Alpha]

Gonzalez does get hit but that's his style. The fact he's taking punches from guys at 115 and fighting them toe to toe is a credit to his ability and chin. Just the names alone on his record establish him as one of the best around. Niida, Takayama, Estrada, Yaegashi, Viloria, Cuadras, Wangek. Ioka wanted no part of him. His desire to fight the top guys is admirable.

Arroyo was no slouch either, having previously only lost a close SD to Amnat Ruenroeng in his home turf in Thailand. Ruenroeng has since lost his title, but Arroyo provided Gonzalez a pretty stiff test.

Totally. I was just naming off the top of my head. There are many others also. Calderon was never really a possibility but I would have liked to see him face Nietes.

[Fenster]

His skill speaks for itself, he's tremendous. But I need to see him face more adversity and pressure, simply see more. Every fighter on the list can be hacked apart if based on competition. He lost to Salido. Martinez arguably also lost to Salido rematch. Can anyone name unranked Russells most impressive 'huge fight' victory prior to facing Loma? I'm still wondering when Walters actually quit in that fight, was it on his stool and after a couple rounds of being bedazzled. Sosa had no business there and clearly lost to Walters. All a guy can do is dominate his opponents and it becomes a double edge sword. I believe Crawford has shown just as much if not more adjustment in a ring when breaking down his opponent and he actually had to work for and earn his professional network spot and platform.

That's what I'm saying apart from Walters who was possibly #1 at 126 Loma hasn't really fought the best in his division(s). I doubt Russell was ranked and if he was it was bottom half. Martinez and Sosa were not at the top. Ward stepped up a division to fight Kov; considered the best at 175. I thought Kov won. Gonzalez has been in with the best of 4 divisions and should still be undefeated. Crawford beat Postol who was considered the #2 and biggest challenge in the division. Garcia holds wins over Salido, Martinez and took out Zlaticanin who was considered the #2 guy at 135 (and who Linares had arguably avoided) making Garcia a 3 weight champion. I understand the buzz and watching Loma fight it is hard to deny those skills but personally I feel many are getting ahead of themselves.

That's not even taking into account a guy like Shinsuke Yamanaka. Even Inoue's record is arguably better than Loma's. Rigo ain't done sh-t lately but at least he beat a P4P guy in Donaire.

"Crawford beat Postol who was regarded no.2" - This is where ranking fighters from different divisions by who beat whom becomes a farce. Just because Postol was rated no.2 at 140 it doesn't mean he was realistically better than the no.10 ranked featherweight or no.12 middleweight or no.5 cruiserweight etc.

What made Postol no.2? He beat a "shot" Matthysse. He was no.2 because the division is really weak compared to others.

In fact Crawford's record is really weak for a P4P guy. Garcia's isn't much better. You see.. start ripping apart fighters records, all of a sudden everyone is crap (). Loma's wins stack up with anything Crawford has done.

[Alpha]

His skill speaks for itself, he's tremendous. But I need to see him face more adversity and pressure, simply see more. Every fighter on the list can be hacked apart if based on competition. He lost to Salido. Martinez arguably also lost to Salido rematch. Can anyone name unranked Russells most impressive 'huge fight' victory prior to facing Loma? I'm still wondering when Walters actually quit in that fight, was it on his stool and after a couple rounds of being bedazzled. Sosa had no business there and clearly lost to Walters. All a guy can do is dominate his opponents and it becomes a double edge sword. I believe Crawford has shown just as much if not more adjustment in a ring when breaking down his opponent and he actually had to work for and earn his professional network spot and platform.

That's what I'm saying apart from Walters who was possibly #1 at 126 Loma hasn't really fought the best in his division(s). I doubt Russell was ranked and if he was it was bottom half. Martinez and Sosa were not at the top. Ward stepped up a division to fight Kov; considered the best at 175. I thought Kov won. Gonzalez has been in with the best of 4 divisions and should still be undefeated. Crawford beat Postol who was considered the #2 and biggest challenge in the division. Garcia holds wins over Salido, Martinez and took out Zlaticanin who was considered the #2 guy at 135 (and who Linares had arguably avoided) making Garcia a 3 weight champion. I understand the buzz and watching Loma fight it is hard to deny those skills but personally I feel many are getting ahead of themselves.

That's not even taking into account a guy like Shinsuke Yamanaka. Even Inoue's record is arguably better than Loma's. Rigo ain't done sh-t lately but at least he beat a P4P guy in Donaire.

"Crawford beat Postol who was regarded no.2" - This is where ranking fighters from different divisions by who beat whom becomes a farce. Just because Postol was rated no.2 at 140 it doesn't mean he was realistically better than the no.10 ranked featherweight or no.12 middleweight or no.5 cruiserweight etc.

What made Postol no.2? He beat a "shot" Matthysse. He was no.2 because the division is really weak compared to others.

In fact Crawford's record is really weak for a P4P guy. Garcia's isn't much better. You see.. start ripping apart fighters records, all of a sudden everyone is crap (). Loma's wins stack up with anything Crawford has done.

So Matthysse was shot now? I'm sure he was the fav going in? The fight with Crawford was a unification and they were considered the 2 best in the division. Sure the division may have been weak according to you but 126 wasn't much better. Crawford has been considered the lineal champ at both 135 and 140. Garcia holds a win over the guy that beat Loma and beat the other guy (Martinez) who you rate as one of Loma's best 3. He was also considered lineal at 126. Probably would have been at 130 as well had he not had the layoff. You said you have him clear at #1. That's fine you are entitled to your opinion. I'm just listing reasons as to why I would rate other fighters ahead of him. The cool thing is we have all these fighters that we can include in the debate and many of them are challenging themselves. Ward & Kov are set to go at it again. Crawford is taking on Diaz. Gonzalez will potentially rematch Cuardas or Wangek. Garcia looks on a collision course with Linares. Good times ahead.

[Fenster]

His skill speaks for itself, he's tremendous. But I need to see him face more adversity and pressure, simply see more. Every fighter on the list can be hacked apart if based on competition. He lost to Salido. Martinez arguably also lost to Salido rematch. Can anyone name unranked Russells most impressive 'huge fight' victory prior to facing Loma? I'm still wondering when Walters actually quit in that fight, was it on his stool and after a couple rounds of being bedazzled. Sosa had no business there and clearly lost to Walters. All a guy can do is dominate his opponents and it becomes a double edge sword. I believe Crawford has shown just as much if not more adjustment in a ring when breaking down his opponent and he actually had to work for and earn his professional network spot and platform.

That's what I'm saying apart from Walters who was possibly #1 at 126 Loma hasn't really fought the best in his division(s). I doubt Russell was ranked and if he was it was bottom half. Martinez and Sosa were not at the top. Ward stepped up a division to fight Kov; considered the best at 175. I thought Kov won. Gonzalez has been in with the best of 4 divisions and should still be undefeated. Crawford beat Postol who was considered the #2 and biggest challenge in the division. Garcia holds wins over Salido, Martinez and took out Zlaticanin who was considered the #2 guy at 135 (and who Linares had arguably avoided) making Garcia a 3 weight champion. I understand the buzz and watching Loma fight it is hard to deny those skills but personally I feel many are getting ahead of themselves.

That's not even taking into account a guy like Shinsuke Yamanaka. Even Inoue's record is arguably better than Loma's. Rigo ain't done sh-t lately but at least he beat a P4P guy in Donaire.

"Crawford beat Postol who was regarded no.2" - This is where ranking fighters from different divisions by who beat whom becomes a farce. Just because Postol was rated no.2 at 140 it doesn't mean he was realistically better than the no.10 ranked featherweight or no.12 middleweight or no.5 cruiserweight etc.

What made Postol no.2? He beat a "shot" Matthysse. He was no.2 because the division is really weak compared to others.

In fact Crawford's record is really weak for a P4P guy. Garcia's isn't much better. You see.. start ripping apart fighters records, all of a sudden everyone is crap (). Loma's wins stack up with anything Crawford has done.

So Matthysse was shot now? I'm sure he was the fav going in? The fight with Crawford was a unification and they were considered the 2 best in the division. Sure the division may have been weak according to you but 126 wasn't much better. Crawford has been considered the lineal champ at both 135 and 140. Garcia holds a win over the guy that beat Loma and beat the other guy (Martinez) who you rate as one of Loma's best 3. He was also considered lineal at 126. Probably would have been at 130 as well had he not had the layoff. You said you have him clear at #1. That's fine you are entitled to your opinion. I'm just listing reasons as to why I would rate other fighters ahead of him. The cool thing is we have all these fighters that we can include in the debate and many of them are challenging themselves. Ward & Kov are set to go at it again. Crawford is taking on Diaz. Gonzalez will potentially rematch Cuardas or Wangek. Garcia looks on a collision course with Linares. Good times ahead.

Yeah I think Matthysee has been a shadow since Garcia seriously damaged his eye. I put shot in quotation marks as it's just my opinion not a fact. The Matthysee from a few years ago would have decapitated Postol.

Regardless of "lineal" or ranking position per division I think Walters and Russell Jr are much better than Postol. And Walters was no.1 at featherweight anyway before moving to superfeather.

Rocky Martinez is one of Garcia's best wins in 36 fights, Loma has had just 9.

All my point is - is that even ignoring Loma's incredible skillset, his competition isn't that far off everyone elses barring Ward and Chocolatito. That's all.

[Alpha]

His skill speaks for itself, he's tremendous. But I need to see him face more adversity and pressure, simply see more. Every fighter on the list can be hacked apart if based on competition. He lost to Salido. Martinez arguably also lost to Salido rematch. Can anyone name unranked Russells most impressive 'huge fight' victory prior to facing Loma? I'm still wondering when Walters actually quit in that fight, was it on his stool and after a couple rounds of being bedazzled. Sosa had no business there and clearly lost to Walters. All a guy can do is dominate his opponents and it becomes a double edge sword. I believe Crawford has shown just as much if not more adjustment in a ring when breaking down his opponent and he actually had to work for and earn his professional network spot and platform.

That's what I'm saying apart from Walters who was possibly #1 at 126 Loma hasn't really fought the best in his division(s). I doubt Russell was ranked and if he was it was bottom half. Martinez and Sosa were not at the top. Ward stepped up a division to fight Kov; considered the best at 175. I thought Kov won. Gonzalez has been in with the best of 4 divisions and should still be undefeated. Crawford beat Postol who was considered the #2 and biggest challenge in the division. Garcia holds wins over Salido, Martinez and took out Zlaticanin who was considered the #2 guy at 135 (and who Linares had arguably avoided) making Garcia a 3 weight champion. I understand the buzz and watching Loma fight it is hard to deny those skills but personally I feel many are getting ahead of themselves.

That's not even taking into account a guy like Shinsuke Yamanaka. Even Inoue's record is arguably better than Loma's. Rigo ain't done sh-t lately but at least he beat a P4P guy in Donaire.

"Crawford beat Postol who was regarded no.2" - This is where ranking fighters from different divisions by who beat whom becomes a farce. Just because Postol was rated no.2 at 140 it doesn't mean he was realistically better than the no.10 ranked featherweight or no.12 middleweight or no.5 cruiserweight etc.

What made Postol no.2? He beat a "shot" Matthysse. He was no.2 because the division is really weak compared to others.

In fact Crawford's record is really weak for a P4P guy. Garcia's isn't much better. You see.. start ripping apart fighters records, all of a sudden everyone is crap (). Loma's wins stack up with anything Crawford has done.

So Matthysse was shot now? I'm sure he was the fav going in? The fight with Crawford was a unification and they were considered the 2 best in the division. Sure the division may have been weak according to you but 126 wasn't much better. Crawford has been considered the lineal champ at both 135 and 140. Garcia holds a win over the guy that beat Loma and beat the other guy (Martinez) who you rate as one of Loma's best 3. He was also considered lineal at 126. Probably would have been at 130 as well had he not had the layoff. You said you have him clear at #1. That's fine you are entitled to your opinion. I'm just listing reasons as to why I would rate other fighters ahead of him. The cool thing is we have all these fighters that we can include in the debate and many of them are challenging themselves. Ward & Kov are set to go at it again. Crawford is taking on Diaz. Gonzalez will potentially rematch Cuardas or Wangek. Garcia looks on a collision course with Linares. Good times ahead.

Yeah I think Matthysee has been a shadow since Garcia seriously damaged his eye. I put shot in quotation marks as it's just my opinion not a fact. The Matthysee from a few years ago would have decapitated Postol.

Regardless of "lineal" or ranking position per division I think Walters and Russell Jr are much better than Postol. And Walters was no.1 at featherweight anyway before moving to superfeather.

Rocky Martinez is one of Garcia's best wins in 36 fights, Loma has had just 9.

All my point is - is that even ignoring Loma's incredible skillset, his competition isn't that far off everyone elses barring Ward and Chocolatito. That's all.

OK I understand what you meant now and I agree Loma is not far off. But I have to disagree with "Clear #1" for the reasons I've stated previously.

Matthysse may have slipped but he was coming in off the Provodnikov win where he looked good. Russell Jr had fought no one going into their bout and I rate Postol's loss to Crawford about the same as Russell's to Loma. No shame in losing to a class fighter. Also Postol took his loss like a man so I could never rate Walters ahead of him. He may have been #1 at 126 but the fight took place at 130 where he hadn't won a title and his only fight was the "draw" with Sosa.

[Fenster]

I thought I made it clear that I said "clear" as I based it on talent/skill/abilty more than records. Clearly I didn't make that clear ().

@Master - Brook weighed 160 like all Golovkin's other middleweight opponents. It's irrelevant though as you've stated Golovkin let him do better than the others.

If you believe it's illogical that fighters moving up in weight can't be tougher than men that already fight at the weight, I suggest you take a look back through the history of boxing. You will get the shock of your life mate.

Seriously, these fighters will blow your mind - start with a Filipino fella named Manny Pacquiao, Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Hearns, De La Hoya, Ricky Burns, Duke McKenzie.