Is Wladimir Klitschko a top ten ATG heavyweight?

[Mark TKO]

His record says yes. Will always be judged against the era he fought in - not his fault.

Top twenty yes for me. Ten no

[Master]

I say yes he is although I think Bowe and Vitali would beat him but his record of consistancy and defences puts him above them. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

[Alpha]

I say yes he is although I think Bowe and Vitali would beat him but his record of consistancy and defences puts him above them. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

Marciano should push Wlad out of your list. Personally I'd have Liston ahead of him as well as a few others. Tyson is way to high for me. He doesn't make my 10 either.

[Master]

I say yes he is although I think Bowe and Vitali would beat him but his record of consistancy and defences puts him above them. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

Marciano should push Wlad out of your list. Personally I'd have Liston ahead of him as well as a few others. Tyson is way to high for me. He doesn't make my 10 either.

Liston only beat Floyd as champion but acknowledge he had to face the great Ali as did Foreman.

Rocky is a whole new debate thread.

Tyson is in there and may not be as high but definitely in the top 10.

[Alpha]

I say yes he is although I think Bowe and Vitali would beat him but his record of consistancy and defences puts him above them. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

Marciano should push Wlad out of your list. Personally I'd have Liston ahead of him as well as a few others. Tyson is way to high for me. He doesn't make my 10 either.

Liston only beat Floyd as champion but acknowledge he had to face the great Ali as did Foreman.

Rocky is a whole new debate thread.

Tyson is in there and may not be as high but definitely in the top 10.

Liston pretty much cleaned out the division before becoming champ. During Tyson's prime I can see him very high but it was very short.

[Gandalf]

No, people are high on an old dog putting in a gutsy end of career showing, but where was this Wlad over a decade of jab and clinch? Wlad has had a great career but has folded all too often when not allowed to jab and clinch. Mark is right, a solid top 20 based on technical skills, but always a punch away from being knocked down or stopped. Vitali was the ior fighter. Chin, output and intelligence. Wlad was always missing a few of those attributes.

[Gandalf]

Superior...pesky phone....

[erics44]

No, people are high on an old dog putting in a gutsy end of career showing, but where was this Wlad over a decade of jab and clinch? Wlad has had a great career but has folded all too often when not allowed to jab and clinch. Mark is right, a solid top 20 based on technical skills, but always a punch away from being knocked down or stopped. Vitali was the ior fighter. Chin, output and intelligence. Wlad was always missing a few of those attributes.

exactly people have short memories

its like having a girlfriend who shagged about for 10 years and then forgiving her coz she put in the effort for one last night out

[brocktonblockbust]

. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

Replace Frazier with Marciano

[powerpuncher]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

[El Kabong]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

[erics44]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

Vitali wud beat wlad because he is capable of throwing a punch back at him

[Master]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

Vitali wud beat wlad because he is capable of throwing a punch back at him

Yes because it is that easy and no one ever tried to do that in all the defences he had.

[powerpuncher]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

If that happened then I would give him a ton more respect. I just don't see it happening. I think that vitali was the better fighter between the two. He just doesn't have the accolades that his brother has.

Your argument doesn't hold up though. Let's say for example that Ali and Frazier never fought. They just avoided each other and both claimed to be the best. Wouldn't both of their statuses have gone down significantly? This fights made them who they were.

Wlad and vitali we're the obvious two best fighters for a while. If they don't fight each other, you have to dock them for avoiding the most dangerous opponent out there even if there was a good reason. I mean seriously, vitali would have been hands down the best fighter that wlad had ever fought. If he could have beaten him, then I would have said that he was the real deal. Since they didn't fight, I can only go off of what I perceive which was that wlad would have gotten beat and basically got a free pass to avoid the actual best HW fighter at the time.

[El Kabong]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

If that happened then I would give him a ton more respect. I just don't see it happening. I think that vitali was the better fighter between the two. He just doesn't have the accolades that his brother has.

Your argument doesn't hold up though. Let's say for example that Ali and Frazier never fought. They just avoided each other and both claimed to be the best. Wouldn't both of their statuses have gone down significantly? This fights made them who they were.

Wlad and vitali we're the obvious two best fighters for a while. If they don't fight each other, you have to dock them for avoiding the most dangerous opponent out there even if there was a good reason. I mean seriously, vitali would have been hands down the best fighter that wlad had ever fought. If he could have beaten him, then I would have said that he was the real deal. Since they didn't fight, I can only go off of what I perceive which was that wlad would have gotten beat and basically got a free pass to avoid the actual best HW fighter at the time.

Yeah.....soooo in the long and storied history of boxing when have brothers fought each other?

Max Baer vs Buddy Baer? That ever happen?

Jerry vs Mike vs Bobby in a Quarry Brothers Battle Royal? That ever go down?

Floyd Sr ever fight Roger or Jeff Mayweather?

Leon and Michael Spinks ever fight each other? That ever happen?




Just provide ANY precedent for that fight to happen and I'll agree with you otherwise it's a big old nothing burger