Is Wladimir Klitschko a top ten ATG heavyweight?

[Master]

I say yes he is although I think Bowe and Vitali would beat him but his record of consistancy and defences puts him above them. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

Marciano should push Wlad out of your list. Personally I'd have Liston ahead of him as well as a few others. Tyson is way to high for me. He doesn't make my 10 either.

Liston only beat Floyd as champion but acknowledge he had to face the great Ali as did Foreman.

Rocky is a whole new debate thread.

Tyson is in there and may not be as high but definitely in the top 10.

[Alpha]

I say yes he is although I think Bowe and Vitali would beat him but his record of consistancy and defences puts him above them. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

Marciano should push Wlad out of your list. Personally I'd have Liston ahead of him as well as a few others. Tyson is way to high for me. He doesn't make my 10 either.

Liston only beat Floyd as champion but acknowledge he had to face the great Ali as did Foreman.

Rocky is a whole new debate thread.

Tyson is in there and may not be as high but definitely in the top 10.

Liston pretty much cleaned out the division before becoming champ. During Tyson's prime I can see him very high but it was very short.

[Gandalf]

No, people are high on an old dog putting in a gutsy end of career showing, but where was this Wlad over a decade of jab and clinch? Wlad has had a great career but has folded all too often when not allowed to jab and clinch. Mark is right, a solid top 20 based on technical skills, but always a punch away from being knocked down or stopped. Vitali was the ior fighter. Chin, output and intelligence. Wlad was always missing a few of those attributes.

[Gandalf]

Superior...pesky phone....

[El Kabong]

People complaining about HOW Wlad won are completely ignoring the fact THAT Wlad won.....he's been in and had more title fights than any other heavyweight....ANY OTHER HEAVYWEIGHT he ran the division for 10-11 years, he over came defeats, he adapted his style as he went along.

In terms of accomplishments in the ring he's EASILY top 10...in terms of fighting other greats prime vs prime, who the fuck knows who would beat who that's all speculation, the FACTS, what he accomplished in the ring, that's solid, that's something you can count, something tangible and he's an easy top 10 heavyweight of all time.

[X]

It utterly depends on HOW you define 'great'.

If, like many people, you simply think it is about how competent and good a fighter he was ..... then I do believe he would be in the top ten. He would be competitive with all the names mentioned above. Some would probably be favoured to defeat him more often than not, but I doubt he would be totally outclassed many times.

It's likely that he would simply be too big, too athletic for some great names such as Dempsey, Marciano and maybe even Joe Frazier.

I like to define sporting 'greatness' using additional criteria though ..... how did they dominate their era, how many great opponents did they beat, did they cross into the mainstream and what did they do to elevate their sport, how was their longevity, will they be remembered in 50 years etc.

Wlad was always a classy operator, always respected his sport and was a good ambassador. He was also the best heavyweight on the planet for a good decade. However, I would question the Quality of his opponents generally (not his fault, but it is what it is), I don't think he really crossed over into the mainstream or elevated the sport if boxing. He was so superior to many of his opponents that many of his bouts were boring processions.

All in all, then, I wouldn't place him in my own top ten ATGs ..... but that's no insult to a very very good heavyweight and a decent human being.

[Nameless]

Yes, he does, and he would have had a significant chance to win against most of the all time great. He had it all, even if his chin was ok and not better. The same goes for his brother which, in my opinion, was even better due to his tremendous chin.

[Master]

Yes, he does, and he would have had a significant chance to win against most of the all time great. He had it all, even if his chin was ok and not better. The same goes for his brother which, in my opinion, was even better due to his tremendous chin.

Vitali would have been better if he had a higher number of defences and was not so injury prone. He didn't and wasn't so he should be lower.

[erics44]

No, people are high on an old dog putting in a gutsy end of career showing, but where was this Wlad over a decade of jab and clinch? Wlad has had a great career but has folded all too often when not allowed to jab and clinch. Mark is right, a solid top 20 based on technical skills, but always a punch away from being knocked down or stopped. Vitali was the ior fighter. Chin, output and intelligence. Wlad was always missing a few of those attributes.

exactly people have short memories

its like having a girlfriend who shagged about for 10 years and then forgiving her coz she put in the effort for one last night out