Is Wladimir Klitschko a top ten ATG heavyweight?

[Master]

I say yes he is although I think Bowe and Vitali would beat him but his record of consistancy and defences puts him above them. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

[Alpha]

I say yes he is although I think Bowe and Vitali would beat him but his record of consistancy and defences puts him above them. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

Marciano should push Wlad out of your list. Personally I'd have Liston ahead of him as well as a few others. Tyson is way to high for me. He doesn't make my 10 either.

[Master]

I say yes he is although I think Bowe and Vitali would beat him but his record of consistancy and defences puts him above them. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

Marciano should push Wlad out of your list. Personally I'd have Liston ahead of him as well as a few others. Tyson is way to high for me. He doesn't make my 10 either.

Liston only beat Floyd as champion but acknowledge he had to face the great Ali as did Foreman.

Rocky is a whole new debate thread.

Tyson is in there and may not be as high but definitely in the top 10.

[Alpha]

I say yes he is although I think Bowe and Vitali would beat him but his record of consistancy and defences puts him above them. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

Marciano should push Wlad out of your list. Personally I'd have Liston ahead of him as well as a few others. Tyson is way to high for me. He doesn't make my 10 either.

Liston only beat Floyd as champion but acknowledge he had to face the great Ali as did Foreman.

Rocky is a whole new debate thread.

Tyson is in there and may not be as high but definitely in the top 10.

Liston pretty much cleaned out the division before becoming champ. During Tyson's prime I can see him very high but it was very short.

[Gandalf]

No, people are high on an old dog putting in a gutsy end of career showing, but where was this Wlad over a decade of jab and clinch? Wlad has had a great career but has folded all too often when not allowed to jab and clinch. Mark is right, a solid top 20 based on technical skills, but always a punch away from being knocked down or stopped. Vitali was the ior fighter. Chin, output and intelligence. Wlad was always missing a few of those attributes.

[Gandalf]

Superior...pesky phone....

[El Kabong]

People complaining about HOW Wlad won are completely ignoring the fact THAT Wlad won.....he's been in and had more title fights than any other heavyweight....ANY OTHER HEAVYWEIGHT he ran the division for 10-11 years, he over came defeats, he adapted his style as he went along.

In terms of accomplishments in the ring he's EASILY top 10...in terms of fighting other greats prime vs prime, who the fuck knows who would beat who that's all speculation, the FACTS, what he accomplished in the ring, that's solid, that's something you can count, something tangible and he's an easy top 10 heavyweight of all time.

[X]

It utterly depends on HOW you define 'great'.

If, like many people, you simply think it is about how competent and good a fighter he was ..... then I do believe he would be in the top ten. He would be competitive with all the names mentioned above. Some would probably be favoured to defeat him more often than not, but I doubt he would be totally outclassed many times.

It's likely that he would simply be too big, too athletic for some great names such as Dempsey, Marciano and maybe even Joe Frazier.

I like to define sporting 'greatness' using additional criteria though ..... how did they dominate their era, how many great opponents did they beat, did they cross into the mainstream and what did they do to elevate their sport, how was their longevity, will they be remembered in 50 years etc.

Wlad was always a classy operator, always respected his sport and was a good ambassador. He was also the best heavyweight on the planet for a good decade. However, I would question the Quality of his opponents generally (not his fault, but it is what it is), I don't think he really crossed over into the mainstream or elevated the sport if boxing. He was so superior to many of his opponents that many of his bouts were boring processions.

All in all, then, I wouldn't place him in my own top ten ATGs ..... but that's no insult to a very very good heavyweight and a decent human being.

[erics44]

No, people are high on an old dog putting in a gutsy end of career showing, but where was this Wlad over a decade of jab and clinch? Wlad has had a great career but has folded all too often when not allowed to jab and clinch. Mark is right, a solid top 20 based on technical skills, but always a punch away from being knocked down or stopped. Vitali was the ior fighter. Chin, output and intelligence. Wlad was always missing a few of those attributes.

exactly people have short memories

its like having a girlfriend who shagged about for 10 years and then forgiving her coz she put in the effort for one last night out

[brocktonblockbust]

. I have him ahead of Dempsey, Tunney, Rocky and old guard Sullivan, Corbett and Jim Jeffries.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Jack Johnson
Tyson
Lennox
Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Wlad

Replace Frazier with Marciano

[powerpuncher]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

[El Kabong]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

[erics44]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

Vitali wud beat wlad because he is capable of throwing a punch back at him

[Master]

There are many reasons that he is not, but one of the biggest is that he wasn't the best HW in the world for most of his reign. Vitali was better but they obviously wouldn't fight each other. Just imagine an alternative reality where they fought and vitali KOd him. Would that change your opinion of his status?

People just assume Wlad would lose to Vitali.....what if Wlad outboxed Vitali? What would you say then?

Vitali wud beat wlad because he is capable of throwing a punch back at him

Yes because it is that easy and no one ever tried to do that in all the defences he had.

[BIG H]

It's hard to say how good he is/was, because his opposition was so poor. We don't know if he would've still reigned for 10 years even if his opposition was better, but you have to ask yourself this, is there anybody he has beaten, that there aren't at least 30 other HWs' in history that would also have beaten?

I think that even somebody like Tim Witherspoon would've beaten everybody that Wlad beat. It's hard to put somebody top 10 who really hasn't beaten anybody, but hard to keep him out based on his number of wins, time unbeaten, longevity etc. Personally I would not have him top 10.

Love the bloke though!!