UK general election

[Beanz]

Mate, instead of blaming some media conspiracy, a secret inner cabal of traitors within the Labour Party (ironically, a Fifth Column on non-communists ) or some enormously complex plot to divide and conquer the 'people' by leaving Europe ...... can't you see that the labour vote is being utterly wiped out because people think they are a bunch of useless unelectable tossers!

Diane Abbot appears to be unable to walk and chew at the same time, she seems pretty thick with little grasp of her own policies.

Ive said for a while that Corbyn's rather infantile policies are likely to bankrupt the country. 4 new bank holidays .... they think the people are so stupid that that would be some sort of vote winner, for fucks sake!

People should respect the electorate, just because people don't agree with your own views that doesn't de facto make every single one of them wrong, stupid or hoodwinked.

I believe that a strong Opposition is critical in holding any government to account, and to provide checks and balances against ideological extremism ...... but it is completely Corbyns fault that the Tories are winning all those seats. It's his fault that the Labour Party are in a complete shambles, and it's his fault that it has been taken over by a smallish group of far left totalitarians who have likely made them unelectable for a generation.

If he really was voted in by such an overwhelming margin to be the Leader of the party, where the hell are all those votes!

An effectively One Party country is never a good thing, it's Labour and Corbyn's fault that we seem to be going that way. I'm not a labour supporter any more, but I'm genuinely angry with them for their clueless incompetence.

You are also in denial if you will not even acknowledge the growing influence of a right wing invested media in concentrating on personalities rather than policies. It is no coincidence that Osborne has left to become an editor or that the Tories have the ready ear of most of Fleet Street to whisper into. In fact it has become the right wing press dictating policy for a long time now at which the Conservatives cannot wait to jump.

Of all the policies to focus on why on earth would you be so bothered about extra bank holidays? You are on the one hand insisting that people should respect the electorate whilst chiding the elected leader of the Labour party. If he does not represent you, don't vote for him. When Blair led Labour into swallowing right wing rhetoric and throwing his weight behind the multinational corporate war machine then i made sure i did not vote for him. Many of the old Labour supporters, pre 'New Democrat aping Labour tory light Labour' and the new younger voters do not think Corbyn is unelectable. That is clearly bullshit when the guy has been elected leader of a major political party. Doesn't wash mate, you can speak for yourself but the General election is quite different to local elections as we shall see.

[X]

I'm sure that I am probably in denial about some things - it's human nature to more readily hear things we already agree with. Just look at some of the posts that are all over this forum

Actually, I agree with you about the growing influence of right wing media, especially through non-conventional channels such as social media, vlogs and new Facebook groups. They drown out discerning thought by shouting loudly, making up falsehoods and lies, normalising hate crime and reprogramming the way people's brains work (its true, there is hard scientific evidence of this phenomenon) to dehumanise anybody who thinks differently.

We see this bleeding into mainstream politics. Trump successfully harnessed this to help him win an election IMO, and Le Pen is trying it in France as we speak.

Incidentally, you spoke about the lack of proper debate on another thread. I totally agree. Shouting loudly, not answering the question, not engaging in the debate, regurgitating some poorly researched 'facts', insulting and blaming somebody defenceless now seeems to be the accepted norm .... and I despise it.

I mentioned the Bank Holiday thing because I remember feeling vaguely insulted by it. No other reason. I think I commented on one of your other posts about Labour's policies that they were all fairly admirable but would all cost a hell of a lot of money, and I couldn't see in their manifesto where all that money would come from. Sure, there was talk of closing off tax loopholes, catching dodging multinationals etc but there was little granularity in the numbers. My reaction was "show me the money"!

I sort of take your point about my seeming inconsistency in preaching respect for the electorate, but then chiding the elected leader of Labour ... but I was insinuating that I felt his landslide victory was a bit fishy (and there were unproven allegations about that at the time). I accept I might be in denial, but there isn't much evidence of that massive support today?

I would also usually expect the Opposition to be more successful in local elections, that's the lesson that history teaches us. Incumbent governments sometimes do badly in local elections as the electorate gives them a rap on the knuckles and demands they stand up straighter and do what they promised. I didn't expect the conservatives to muller labour so much.

This is not not good news for Labour just before a General Election, though of course it will probably maximise the Labour turnout in 5 weeks.

I wouldn't pretend to know you, or categorise your politics, but on the evidence of seeing a lot of your posts for quite a long time I think you and I probably have different outlooks and ideologies - politically, anyway.

I still maintain that Corbyn has been a disaster for Labour, and that they have singularly failed to present a compelling vision or message to the electorate.

Ive always respected your consistency though, and also your right to have an opposing view to me!! I haven't ever shouted you down ......... at least we both like boxing 👍🏼

[Beanz]

I'm sure that I am probably in denial about some things - it's human nature to more readily hear things we already agree with. Just look at some of the posts that are all over this forum

Actually, I agree with you about the growing influence of right wing media, especially through non-conventional channels such as social media, vlogs and new Facebook groups. They drown out discerning thought by shouting loudly, making up falsehoods and lies, normalising hate crime and reprogramming the way people's brains work (its true, there is hard scientific evidence of this phenomenon) to dehumanise anybody who thinks differently.

We see this bleeding into mainstream politics. Trump successfully harnessed this to help him win an election IMO, and Le Pen is trying it in France as we speak.

Incidentally, you spoke about the lack of proper debate on another thread. I totally agree. Shouting loudly, not answering the question, not engaging in the debate, regurgitating some poorly researched 'facts', insulting and blaming somebody defenceless now seeems to be the accepted norm .... and I despise it.

I mentioned the Bank Holiday thing because I remember feeling vaguely insulted by it. No other reason. I think I commented on one of your other posts about Labour's policies that they were all fairly admirable but would all cost a hell of a lot of money, and I couldn't see in their manifesto where all that money would come from. Sure, there was talk of closing off tax loopholes, catching dodging multinationals etc but there was little granularity in the numbers. My reaction was "show me the money"!

I sort of take your point about my seeming inconsistency in preaching respect for the electorate, but then chiding the elected leader of Labour ... but I was insinuating that I felt his landslide victory was a bit fishy (and there were unproven allegations about that at the time). I accept I might be in denial, but there isn't much evidence of that massive support today?

I would also usually expect the Opposition to be more successful in local elections, that's the lesson that history teaches us. Incumbent governments sometimes do badly in local elections as the electorate gives them a rap on the knuckles and demands they stand up straighter and do what they promised. I didn't expect the conservatives to muller labour so much.

This is not not good news for Labour just before a General Election, though of course it will probably maximise the Labour turnout in 5 weeks.

I wouldn't pretend to know you, or categorise your politics, but on the evidence of seeing a lot of your posts for quite a long time I think you and I probably have different outlooks and ideologies - politically, anyway.

I still maintain that Corbyn has been a disaster for Labour, and that they have singularly failed to present a compelling vision or message to the electorate.

Ive always respected your consistency though, and also your right to have an opposing view to me!! I haven't ever shouted you down ......... at least we both like boxing ������������

Thank you. I completely understand where you are coming from and actually think you are right about Corbyn in many ways. He is going to struggle so much to appeal to most of the conventional electorate, he may as well go full on and be honest about his unconventionality, and try and display his passion and get young people on board. Campaign on the idea of change, and not try and appease people who will never vote for him anyway. A strong coalition of parties on the left and centre is what I would ideally like being a lot less ideological than in my youth. There are a lot of different views in the country that simply are not represented even by a strong two party system. Proportional representation and much more two way system between communities and legislation.

As a self employed person Bank Holidays will only affect me negatively but I have not forgotten how welcome they were when working in a factory on site or the civil service and education sector.


I love boxing it is a huge part of my life still. In work and play.

[Master]

West Midlands has a Tory mayor.

Corbyn is a liability for the party unfortunately.

[Gandalf]

Why is he a liability though? He hasn't done a single thing wrong. If the people want Tories then screw them. They should have been more clued up and aware of how they are being duped. All sensible young people should leave if it happens and they should never look back. They have been betrayed for 40 years by the system and the people who keep voting for this shite. Get out while you can. Anyone who thinks Corbyn is a liability is an idiot. I would sooner have a rocket land on my head than retreat.

[Master]

Why is he a liability though? He hasn't done a single thing wrong. If the people want Tories then screw them. They should have been more clued up and aware of how they are being duped. All sensible young people should leave if it happens and they should never look back. They have been betrayed for 40 years by the system and the people who keep voting for this shite. Get out while you can. Anyone who thinks Corbyn is a liability is an idiot. I would sooner have a rocket land on my head than retreat.

No point being in opposition having your values and principles, Labour needs to listen to what the electorate want and give it.

[Gandalf]

So Labour should ape the Tories? It just doesn't make any sense. They tried doing that in 2015 and it failed. What has happened is Labour sabotaged itself with endless challenges to Corbyn, the media concertedly set out to destroy him and the Tories are now seen as the pro Brexit party. I don't think any of that is a conspiracy. It's an easy path to track. I didn't expect people were this stupid. It seems with Facebook, footy and soaps you've a system of complete control.

They say that 20% are really clued in. A lot of them such as the Guardian crowd are vested in this system. They have private health care, their property has doubled in value, they own shares etc. They probably quite like how it is all evolving. The rest seem to be sheep ready to be herded. The smart young ones can never compete without selling out. This is where I start sounding extreme. Leave and make sure you are where it ends. There can be no future in a world like this. Space is the only way out and we don't have a reservation.

[Beanz]

Brockton you voted for an openly corrupt power crazed vacuous embolism of a man, so you absolutely have bought into the system as much as Miles has by buying Alex Jones magic food and thinking Assange,Putin and RT are beacons of democracy.

[El Kabong]

@Beanz, this is how debate works

You make a statement like "Brockton you voted for an openly corrupt power crazed vacuous embolism of a man" and in a perfect world you'd then supply evidence for those claims rather than go into a personal attack.


But it's ok, it'll come to you over time....maybe you'll learn stick with it champ

[Beanz]

@Beanz, this is how debate works

You make a statement like "Brockton you voted for an openly corrupt power crazed vacuous embolism of a man" and in a perfect world you'd then supply evidence for those claims rather than go into a personal attack.


But it's ok, it'll come to you over time....maybe you'll learn stick with it champ

Right I am going to say this once Lyle. First you need to man up and fight your own battles. Then you need to learn what a personal attack is. Exactly which part of " so you absolutely have bought into the system as much as Miles has by buying Alex Jones magic food and thinking Assange,Putin and RT are beacons of democracy." is a personal attack ?

Also that is four @mentions in about 10 minutes. When I , not the mods or anyone else, asked of people could they please stop @mentioning me it is because as a self employed person I already have hundreds of emails to sort through, and it just unnecessarily adds to that task, most people would think that reasonable. If you post in a thread then you would expect someone to post anything they have to say in the same thread. It seems that is not enough for you and your sugar Daddy, there are not enough hours in the day to waste jumping to either of you because like most millennials you have the attention span of a gnat, It is not a lot to ask. Manners Lyle, I thought your region was famous for it, yet it seems you have none.

[El Kabong]

Right I am going to say this once Lyle. First you need to man up and fight your own battles. Then you need to learn what a personal attack is. Exactly which part of " so you absolutely have bought into the system as much as Miles has by buying Alex Jones magic food and thinking Assange,Putin and RT are beacons of democracy." is a personal attack ?

Also that is four @mentions in about 10 minutes. When I , not the mods or anyone else, asked of people could they please stop @mentioning me it is because as a self employed person I already have hundreds of emails to sort through, and it just unnecessarily adds to that task, most people would think that reasonable. If you post in a thread then you would expect someone to post anything they have to say in the same thread. It seems that is not enough for you and your sugar Daddy, there are not enough hours in the day to waste jumping to either of you because like most millennials you have the attention span of a gnat, It is not a lot to ask. Manners Lyle, I thought your region was famous for it, yet it seems you have none.

Oh you're only saying that once? Good, then I won't have to ignore it a second time. I'll @ mention you when I fucking want to and if you don't like it you can fuck off @Beanz you fucking read me?

"First you need to man up and fight your own battles"....are you confused or something?

"Then you need to learn what a personal attack is. Exactly which part of " so you absolutely have bought into the system as much as Miles has by buying Alex Jones magic food and thinking Assange,Putin and RT are beacons of democracy." [COLOR=#3e3e3e] is a personal attack ?"
....you're calling both Brockton and Miles either dumb or you're saying their minds are fully made up and they've chosen a side which you don't agree with...yeah, that's not addressing what they believe it's attacking that they believe those things. That's a PERSONAL rather than a SUBSTANTIVE attack....and hey, you're fucking brilliant at those Beanz.

Manners ain't a one way street Beanz. You can treat people on here with respect brockton and miles included OR you can get used to being shat on, one OR the other, there's no middle road. Now I've been really fucking nice and understanding with you in the past....I'm about fed up with that now. Maybe I'll decide to step away from "debating" you since you've no clue on earth how that is done and perhaps you'll calm down.....or perhaps you'll choose poorly, again.

[Beanz]

Right I am going to say this once Lyle. First you need to man up and fight your own battles. Then you need to learn what a personal attack is. Exactly which part of " so you absolutely have bought into the system as much as Miles has by buying Alex Jones magic food and thinking Assange,Putin and RT are beacons of democracy." is a personal attack ?

Also that is four @mentions in about 10 minutes. When I , not the mods or anyone else, asked of people could they please stop @mentioning me it is because as a self employed person I already have hundreds of emails to sort through, and it just unnecessarily adds to that task, most people would think that reasonable. If you post in a thread then you would expect someone to post anything they have to say in the same thread. It seems that is not enough for you and your sugar Daddy, there are not enough hours in the day to waste jumping to either of you because like most millennials you have the attention span of a gnat, It is not a lot to ask. Manners Lyle, I thought your region was famous for it, yet it seems you have none.

Oh you're only saying that once? Good, then I won't have to ignore it a second time. I'll @ mention you when I fucking want to and if you don't like it you can fuck off @Beanz you fucking read me?

"First you need to man up and fight your own battles"....are you confused or something?

"Then you need to learn what a personal attack is. Exactly which part of " so you absolutely have bought into the system as much as Miles has by buying Alex Jones magic food and thinking Assange,Putin and RT are beacons of democracy." [COLOR=#3e3e3e] is a personal attack ?"
....you're calling both Brockton and Miles either dumb or you're saying their minds are fully made up and they've chosen a side which you don't agree with...yeah, that's not addressing what they believe it's attacking that they believe those things. That's a PERSONAL rather than a SUBSTANTIVE attack....and hey, you're fucking brilliant at those Beanz.

Manners ain't a one way street Beanz. You can treat people on here with respect brockton and miles included OR you can get used to being shat on, one OR the other, there's no middle road. Now I've been really fucking nice and understanding with you in the past....I'm about fed up with that now. Maybe I'll decide to step away from "debating" you since you've no clue on earth how that is done and perhaps you'll calm down.....or perhaps you'll choose poorly, again.

I am not even slightly angry. Why would I be?

Of course I am callng Miles and Brockton naive. That is not a personal attack you are just reaching as usual, it is why you cannot debate for toffees. Spitting your dummy out just proves how out of control and deluded you are.


What does any of this have to do with the UK election?


And of course there is a middle road, you are like a little boy in a cowboy suit thinking he is Clint Eastwood, when in reality he would get his arse kicked by the milky bar kid.

[Master]

Corbyn is promoting the ban of car park charges in hospital which is absolutely fantastic as it is a tax on the ill. The man should be prime minister.

[El Kabong]

I am not even slightly angry. Why would I be?

Of course I am callng Miles and Brockton naive. That is not a personal attack you are just reaching as usual, it is why you cannot debate for toffees. Spitting your dummy out just proves how out of control and deluded you are.


What does any of this have to do with the UK election?


And of course there is a middle road, you are like a little boy in a cowboy suit thinking he is Clint Eastwood, when in reality he would get his arse kicked by the milky bar kid.

I'm sorry you seemed to have mistook me for somebody who cares how you feel.

Yes, yes it IS a personal attack because you've called them naive rather than address what they believe. You just say "Oh you're naive" in response to the issues they express, the arguments they make.....so I guess I can just say "Oh you're naive" and leave it at that, that's my debate right there, "You're naive"....that's not how debate works and I'm tired of waiting on you to fucking learn how to actually argue a point rather than just shit all over the board rather than intellectually engage anyone with an opposing view or even a view that's more in agreement with you. It is so depressing that you are not able to do that, I mean you appear to understand English, you appear to think.....sometimes....but have a debate, you can't fucking do it.


What this has to do with the UK election is it shows what Labour and other left leaning parties are like....you're one of their constituents and that spells out why you guys got your asses handed to you, but don't look in the mirror and diagnose your problems, come on the internet and call people like miles and brockton "naive" don't offer up reasons why or any kind of explanation with facts or figures, just say "you're naive" leave it at that and that'll show those dirty plebs!

And of course there is a middle road, you are like a little boy in a cowboy suit thinking he is Clint Eastwood, when in reality he would get his arse kicked by the milky bar kid

There you go again, another personal attack with fucking NOTHING even close to any kind of argument in there.....just a personal attack, oh but you ain't mad are you? Keep them coming @Beanz these personal attacks are all you have and it's pathetic.

[Beanz]

@Beanz, this is how debate worksYou make a statement like "Brockton you voted for an openly corrupt power crazed vacuous embolism of a man" and in a perfect world you'd then supply evidence for those claims rather than go into a personal attack.But it's ok, it'll come to you over time....maybe you'll learn stick with it champ

This is trolling Lyle. You are not attempting to add anything to the debate. Derailing. It's not even addressed to you.