UK general election

[X]

I'm sure that I am probably in denial about some things - it's human nature to more readily hear things we already agree with. Just look at some of the posts that are all over this forum

Actually, I agree with you about the growing influence of right wing media, especially through non-conventional channels such as social media, vlogs and new Facebook groups. They drown out discerning thought by shouting loudly, making up falsehoods and lies, normalising hate crime and reprogramming the way people's brains work (its true, there is hard scientific evidence of this phenomenon) to dehumanise anybody who thinks differently.

We see this bleeding into mainstream politics. Trump successfully harnessed this to help him win an election IMO, and Le Pen is trying it in France as we speak.

Incidentally, you spoke about the lack of proper debate on another thread. I totally agree. Shouting loudly, not answering the question, not engaging in the debate, regurgitating some poorly researched 'facts', insulting and blaming somebody defenceless now seeems to be the accepted norm .... and I despise it.

I mentioned the Bank Holiday thing because I remember feeling vaguely insulted by it. No other reason. I think I commented on one of your other posts about Labour's policies that they were all fairly admirable but would all cost a hell of a lot of money, and I couldn't see in their manifesto where all that money would come from. Sure, there was talk of closing off tax loopholes, catching dodging multinationals etc but there was little granularity in the numbers. My reaction was "show me the money"!

I sort of take your point about my seeming inconsistency in preaching respect for the electorate, but then chiding the elected leader of Labour ... but I was insinuating that I felt his landslide victory was a bit fishy (and there were unproven allegations about that at the time). I accept I might be in denial, but there isn't much evidence of that massive support today?

I would also usually expect the Opposition to be more successful in local elections, that's the lesson that history teaches us. Incumbent governments sometimes do badly in local elections as the electorate gives them a rap on the knuckles and demands they stand up straighter and do what they promised. I didn't expect the conservatives to muller labour so much.

This is not not good news for Labour just before a General Election, though of course it will probably maximise the Labour turnout in 5 weeks.

I wouldn't pretend to know you, or categorise your politics, but on the evidence of seeing a lot of your posts for quite a long time I think you and I probably have different outlooks and ideologies - politically, anyway.

I still maintain that Corbyn has been a disaster for Labour, and that they have singularly failed to present a compelling vision or message to the electorate.

Ive always respected your consistency though, and also your right to have an opposing view to me!! I haven't ever shouted you down ......... at least we both like boxing 👍🏼

[Beanz]

I'm sure that I am probably in denial about some things - it's human nature to more readily hear things we already agree with. Just look at some of the posts that are all over this forum

Actually, I agree with you about the growing influence of right wing media, especially through non-conventional channels such as social media, vlogs and new Facebook groups. They drown out discerning thought by shouting loudly, making up falsehoods and lies, normalising hate crime and reprogramming the way people's brains work (its true, there is hard scientific evidence of this phenomenon) to dehumanise anybody who thinks differently.

We see this bleeding into mainstream politics. Trump successfully harnessed this to help him win an election IMO, and Le Pen is trying it in France as we speak.

Incidentally, you spoke about the lack of proper debate on another thread. I totally agree. Shouting loudly, not answering the question, not engaging in the debate, regurgitating some poorly researched 'facts', insulting and blaming somebody defenceless now seeems to be the accepted norm .... and I despise it.

I mentioned the Bank Holiday thing because I remember feeling vaguely insulted by it. No other reason. I think I commented on one of your other posts about Labour's policies that they were all fairly admirable but would all cost a hell of a lot of money, and I couldn't see in their manifesto where all that money would come from. Sure, there was talk of closing off tax loopholes, catching dodging multinationals etc but there was little granularity in the numbers. My reaction was "show me the money"!

I sort of take your point about my seeming inconsistency in preaching respect for the electorate, but then chiding the elected leader of Labour ... but I was insinuating that I felt his landslide victory was a bit fishy (and there were unproven allegations about that at the time). I accept I might be in denial, but there isn't much evidence of that massive support today?

I would also usually expect the Opposition to be more successful in local elections, that's the lesson that history teaches us. Incumbent governments sometimes do badly in local elections as the electorate gives them a rap on the knuckles and demands they stand up straighter and do what they promised. I didn't expect the conservatives to muller labour so much.

This is not not good news for Labour just before a General Election, though of course it will probably maximise the Labour turnout in 5 weeks.

I wouldn't pretend to know you, or categorise your politics, but on the evidence of seeing a lot of your posts for quite a long time I think you and I probably have different outlooks and ideologies - politically, anyway.

I still maintain that Corbyn has been a disaster for Labour, and that they have singularly failed to present a compelling vision or message to the electorate.

Ive always respected your consistency though, and also your right to have an opposing view to me!! I haven't ever shouted you down ......... at least we both like boxing ������������

Thank you. I completely understand where you are coming from and actually think you are right about Corbyn in many ways. He is going to struggle so much to appeal to most of the conventional electorate, he may as well go full on and be honest about his unconventionality, and try and display his passion and get young people on board. Campaign on the idea of change, and not try and appease people who will never vote for him anyway. A strong coalition of parties on the left and centre is what I would ideally like being a lot less ideological than in my youth. There are a lot of different views in the country that simply are not represented even by a strong two party system. Proportional representation and much more two way system between communities and legislation.

As a self employed person Bank Holidays will only affect me negatively but I have not forgotten how welcome they were when working in a factory on site or the civil service and education sector.


I love boxing it is a huge part of my life still. In work and play.

[Master]

West Midlands has a Tory mayor.

Corbyn is a liability for the party unfortunately.

[Gandalf]

Why is he a liability though? He hasn't done a single thing wrong. If the people want Tories then screw them. They should have been more clued up and aware of how they are being duped. All sensible young people should leave if it happens and they should never look back. They have been betrayed for 40 years by the system and the people who keep voting for this shite. Get out while you can. Anyone who thinks Corbyn is a liability is an idiot. I would sooner have a rocket land on my head than retreat.

[Master]

Why is he a liability though? He hasn't done a single thing wrong. If the people want Tories then screw them. They should have been more clued up and aware of how they are being duped. All sensible young people should leave if it happens and they should never look back. They have been betrayed for 40 years by the system and the people who keep voting for this shite. Get out while you can. Anyone who thinks Corbyn is a liability is an idiot. I would sooner have a rocket land on my head than retreat.

No point being in opposition having your values and principles, Labour needs to listen to what the electorate want and give it.

[Gandalf]

So Labour should ape the Tories? It just doesn't make any sense. They tried doing that in 2015 and it failed. What has happened is Labour sabotaged itself with endless challenges to Corbyn, the media concertedly set out to destroy him and the Tories are now seen as the pro Brexit party. I don't think any of that is a conspiracy. It's an easy path to track. I didn't expect people were this stupid. It seems with Facebook, footy and soaps you've a system of complete control.

They say that 20% are really clued in. A lot of them such as the Guardian crowd are vested in this system. They have private health care, their property has doubled in value, they own shares etc. They probably quite like how it is all evolving. The rest seem to be sheep ready to be herded. The smart young ones can never compete without selling out. This is where I start sounding extreme. Leave and make sure you are where it ends. There can be no future in a world like this. Space is the only way out and we don't have a reservation.

[Beanz]

So Labour should ape the Tories? It just doesn't make any sense. They tried doing that in 2015 and it failed. What has happened is Labour sabotaged itself with endless challenges to Corbyn, the media concertedly set out to destroy him and the Tories are now seen as the pro Brexit party. I don't think any of that is a conspiracy. It's an easy path to track. I didn't expect people were this stupid. It seems with Facebook, footy and soaps you've a system of complete control.

They say that 20% are really clued in. A lot of them such as the Guardian crowd are vested in this system. They have private health care, their property has doubled in value, they own shares etc. They probably quite like how it is all evolving. The rest seem to be sheep ready to be herded. The smart young ones can never compete without selling out. This is where I start sounding extreme. Leave and make sure you are where it ends. There can be no future in a world like this. Space is the only way out and we don't have a reservation.

That is quite a patronising and ill informed out of touch way of seeing things. Yes there are a lot of easily led people and a huge swathe of middle England that are are all very well off and would like to turn the clock back to a Pre EU Britain but they are not the whole of the electorate. They just get out and vote more. Always have. Mobilising everyone else is the real challenge and you are right that the press and their coverage makes that hard but even the Guardian as establishment as it is has some damn fine journalists and commentators who are able and willing to point out the lies being pedaled by the Tory machine. Some people also like simplisitc soundbite culture which is why Farage translated so well in America, they want to believe we are a pardody of Britain like him. His party UKIP were absolutely annihilated in the local elections which is brilliant news. The bad new is the Tories despite undergoing criminal investigation will capitalise on that and take those UKIP voters because they have now adopted their retarded policies many of which you supported.