Lomachenko? Name 1-3 fighters he needs to face to satisfy you.

[imp]

It's not about 10 fights. It's about him being called number 1 P4P. People saying he's the best fighter in 30 yearsOn the 10 fights scale his opposition is great.He should fight Rigo who wants the fight, Berchelt who wants the fight or Mikey who wants the fight

Yes, exactly. His achievements in the ring pale in comparison to Andre Ward. There's now way on earth he should be rated #1 pound for pound. I have serious doubts he could have beaten the trio of JMM, Barrera, or Morales at featherweight. They were NEVER P4P #1. Now, if he beats Rigondueax and Garcia then sure he's pound for pound. Definitely if he beats Crawford.

Agreed.

And that's great he's had over 400 amateur fights but were they all against taxi drivers?

Sorry, but he needs to prove himself in the pro ranks with champions before putting him anywhere near Ward.

[Fenster]

In four years/10 fights Loma has fought 5 "world" champions and a further three world title challengers. Ward has been a pro for 13 years, fought 7 "world" champions in 32 fights.

[ykdadamaja]

In four years/10 fights Loma has fought 5 "world" champions and a further three world title challengers. Ward has been a pro for 13 years, fought 7 "world" champions in 32 fights.

Ward is undefeated too. Plus he is in a heavier weight class and guys duck him more than the other way around.

[Fenster]

In four years/10 fights Loma has fought 5 "world" champions and a further three world title challengers. Ward has been a pro for 13 years, fought 7 "world" champions in 32 fights.

Ward is undefeated too. Plus he is in a heavier weight class and guys duck him more than the other way around.

Ward "ducked?" Never has a fighter been more mollycoddled than him. He's had every meaningful fight at home on his promotion - judges, officials, never even left America. Made his name in the super-six yet refused to fight Dirrell. Forced Dawson to near kill himself to get to 168.

Chayaphon Moonsri is a 47-0 WBC champion. Don't see you boys waffling about his P4P-ness because he's unbeaten?

[Spicoli]

In four years/10 fights Loma has fought 5 "world" champions and a further three world title challengers. Ward has been a pro for 13 years, fought 7 "world" champions in 32 fights.

Ward is undefeated too. Plus he is in a heavier weight class and guys duck him more than the other way around.

Ward "ducked?" Never has a fighter been more mollycoddled than him. He's had every meaningful fight at home on his promotion - judges, officials, never even left America. Made his name in the super-six yet refused to fight Dirrell. Forced Dawson to near kill himself to get to 168.

Chayaphon Moonsri is a 47-0 WBC champion. Don't see you boys waffling about his P4P-ness because he's unbeaten?

Might be mistaken and don't know this Moonsri but weren't you the one discounting the p4p'ness of Ricardo Lopez a bit because of the obscure names and same division . Truth be told I can't stand Ward and while both are clearly p4p on skills and both rode amateur success, Wards roll out cannot compare to the way Loma was coddled with pre set 'greatness' blabber and network stroking. A debut on ppv right under the guy you'll be fighting for the title next fight ffs. All that said, Loma did beat Russell in his 3rd fight and that seems to be dismissed to easily.

[Fenster]

Context, @Spicoli, it's all about context. I don't recall the Lopez thing, however, I wouldn't put it past me. I may have been trying to show why Lopez is an all-time great even though he doesn't have a bunch of famous fighters on his ledger. Fans love shitting on fighters that don't have "great" names on their record yet conveniently ignore this qualifier when dealing with their own "great" favourtites like Lopez (cutmemeick ).

What I personally think and what is fair/reasonable/inconsistent/hypocritical/flawed reasoning are two entirely different things. What I say is not always meant to be taken literally.

As far as this thread goes - a guy says Loma needs to fight world champions, I provide world champions he's already faced, then I get a bunch of guys diving on me for making out Loma has a better record than Ward. Err.. what? All I did was provide a fact, never even expressed an opinion.

[Spicoli]

Context, @Spicoli, it's all about context. I don't recall the Lopez thing, however, I wouldn't put it past me. I may have been trying to show why Lopez is an all-time great even though he doesn't have a bunch of famous fighters on his ledger. Fans love shitting on fighters that don't have "great" names on their record yet conveniently ignore this qualifier when dealing with their own "great" favourtites like Lopez (cutmemeick ).

What I personally think and what is fair/reasonable/inconsistent/hypocritical/flawed reasoning are two entirely different things. What I say is not always meant to be taken literally.

As far as this thread goes - a guy says Loma needs to fight world champions, I provide world champions he's already faced, then I get a bunch of guys diving on me for making out Loma has a better record than Ward. Err.. what? All I did was provide a fact, never even expressed an opinion.

Man I totally get that and you're right about names. Just I don't think names are always big qualifier in p4p and can actually be additional knock on guys in 'smaller' divisions because they often get the cold shoulder. Strawweight wasn't even rated by some ranking rags, world bodies before Lopez came. Mick had it right just watch a guy box p4p. Guess it all comes back to subjectivity of p4p, it's basically pick your preference and flavor of the month that fans are all so good at . No one needs to be dived on for it. Frankly I can only defend Ward once in my life time and that was it. If I base it heavily on 'skill and just watch a guy box' Ward finishes lower. It's liked having a tooth pulled imo.

[Fenster]

Might be mistaken and don't know this Moonsri but weren't you the one discounting the p4p'ness of Ricardo Lopez a bit because of the obscure names and same division

I just realised that you thought that I personally was saying this guy is P4P. No, I was showing Imp (and his ilk) that if unbeaten records are so important then why not give this unbeaten champ a mention?

Obviously because he's not known. Popular.

[Alpha]

Arum saying it's down to Rigo or Salido next.

[powerpuncher]

In four years/10 fights Loma has fought 5 "world" champions and a further three world title challengers. Ward has been a pro for 13 years, fought 7 "world" champions in 32 fights.

And your point? You are just pointing out that Ward has more credentials and a better case for p4p king.

Also, weren't you the one saying how rankings were bogus so you can't use that as an argument but you are using world champions (obviously worthless titles for the most part) as a legitimate argument? At this point, Ward has easily beaten the better fighters. It's not close

[Fenster]

In four years/10 fights Loma has fought 5 "world" champions and a further three world title challengers. Ward has been a pro for 13 years, fought 7 "world" champions in 32 fights.

And your point? You are just pointing out that Ward has more credentials and a better case for p4p king.

Also, weren't you the one saying how rankings were bogus so you can't use that as an argument but you are using world champions (obviously worthless titles for the most part) as a legitimate argument? At this point, Ward has easily beaten the better fighters. It's not close

The point?

Sorry, but he needs to prove himself in the pro ranks with champions before putting him anywhere near Ward.

I was providing balance. Knowledge.

Feel free to point out where I've said Ward can't be ranked P4P no.1? I'm not the one tripping over myself in an attempt to enforce my opinion about a fantasy concept.

[imp]

Loma has already lost.
("But it was unfair! The referee! The judges! The low blows! Yada yada ya)

To compare him against Ward at this level is pathetic.

We all know Loma is getting on in years so the fans and media are obviously trying to rush him along into this undeserved position.

What makes matters worse is that Top rank and corrupt Bob arum will milk this for all it's worth.

[imp]

Body shots ruined Loma in his first loss.

https://youtu.be/18xFTNGE2xs

[imp]

There's a reason why Floyd, Ward and Calzaghe will retire undefeated..they are special.

Loma has a long road ahead of him so let's not jump the gun and follow all the hype.

[Silkeyjoe]

He's a white fighter so clearly he is overhyped and has had everything handed to him on a silver spoon. He should have had 17 fights against bums before stepping up then maybe we could give him some respect. How dare he win a world title in 3 fights against a genuine grade A fighter and make a mockery of the boxing status quo of having to learn how to be a pro by taking part in mismatches for a few years