Anthony Joshua v Carlos Takam 28 October 2017

[Master]

Eddie Hearn was on the radio and said AJ is not the finished article. It is extraordinary that a champion of multiple heavyweight titles with a number of defences is still not the finished article. It says more about the quality of heavyweights than how talented the champion really is.

Not throwing blame around, just stating the facts as they are....but it's not just the division but also choice of opponents. The Ring top 10 and champion of those 11 he has fought 2. None higher than the 8th guy.

Again, not blaming, just saying.

Ring ratings have Bellew at 10. Enough said I think.

But for what it's worth. Based on your 'guys inside The Ring top 10' selection process. Joshua is matching himself harder and better than anyone else no? Fury hasnt fought anyone inside the top ten. Neither has Wilder.


Master where's the issue with someone being a champion yet not the finished article? Lennox Lewis was far from the finished article when winning and then losing World titles. It's nothing like extraordinary.

Lennox had earned his title shot beating undefeated Gary Mason, gone through the titles and at least gone the distance.

However I am not blaming AJ, it would be criminal for him not to take the opportunity presented to him. Every other great heavyweight would have taken the title under these circumstances.

I am just pointing out how poor the division really is and Bellew at number 10! No wonder David Haye has not called it a day.

[Primo Carnera]

Eddie Hearn was on the radio and said AJ is not the finished article. It is extraordinary that a champion of multiple heavyweight titles with a number of defences is still not the finished article. It says more about the quality of heavyweights than how talented the champion really is.

Not throwing blame around, just stating the facts as they are....but it's not just the division but also choice of opponents. The Ring top 10 and champion of those 11 he has fought 2. None higher than the 8th guy.

Again, not blaming, just saying.

Ring ratings have Bellew at 10. Enough said I think.

But for what it's worth. Based on your 'guys inside The Ring top 10' selection process. Joshua is matching himself harder and better than anyone else no? Fury hasnt fought anyone inside the top ten. Neither has Wilder.


Master where's the issue with someone being a champion yet not the finished article? Lennox Lewis was far from the finished article when winning and then losing World titles. It's nothing like extraordinary.

Lennox had earned his title shot beating undefeated Gary Mason, gone through the titles and at least gone the distance.

However I am not blaming AJ, it would be criminal for him not to take the opportunity presented to him. Every other great heavyweight would have taken the title under these circumstances.

I am just pointing out how poor the division really is and Bellew at number 10! No wonder David Haye has not called it a day.

Being Devil's advocate a bit, but Is that not similar to Joshua earning his shot beating the undefeated Whyte? Now don't get me wrong, I don't rate Whyte, but we're talking about a guy whose next fight could be a title shot.
I'm not saying AJ is near Lewis's level, may never be . He has a lot to learn and that will only come with experience.
The "Going the distance" thing , is that really relevant any more? He's gone 11 rounds with one of the best 2 fighters of the last 10 years and 10 rounds in his last 2 fights, so there's not much difference.
What he needs to do is weigh a stone lighter and he'll do 12 rounds no problem if he has to.
I did say a while ago, "Maybe he'll never go the distance, maybe he'll either finish every opponent or they finish him inside the distance."
After last night's refereeing, I think it is a definite aim of Hearn's and Matchroom.

[Master]

Eddie Hearn was on the radio and said AJ is not the finished article. It is extraordinary that a champion of multiple heavyweight titles with a number of defences is still not the finished article. It says more about the quality of heavyweights than how talented the champion really is.

Not throwing blame around, just stating the facts as they are....but it's not just the division but also choice of opponents. The Ring top 10 and champion of those 11 he has fought 2. None higher than the 8th guy.

Again, not blaming, just saying.

Ring ratings have Bellew at 10. Enough said I think.

But for what it's worth. Based on your 'guys inside The Ring top 10' selection process. Joshua is matching himself harder and better than anyone else no? Fury hasnt fought anyone inside the top ten. Neither has Wilder.


Master where's the issue with someone being a champion yet not the finished article? Lennox Lewis was far from the finished article when winning and then losing World titles. It's nothing like extraordinary.

Lennox had earned his title shot beating undefeated Gary Mason, gone through the titles and at least gone the distance.

However I am not blaming AJ, it would be criminal for him not to take the opportunity presented to him. Every other great heavyweight would have taken the title under these circumstances.

I am just pointing out how poor the division really is and Bellew at number 10! No wonder David Haye has not called it a day.

Being Devil's advocate a bit, but Is that not similar to Joshua earning his shot beating the undefeated Whyte? Now don't get me wrong, I don't rate Whyte, but we're talking about a guy whose next fight could be a title shot.
I'm not saying AJ is near Lewis's level, may never be . He has a lot to learn and that will only come with experience.
The "Going the distance" thing , is that really relevant any more? He's gone 11 rounds with one of the best 2 fighters of the last 10 years and 10 rounds in his last 2 fights, so there's not much difference.
What he needs to do is weigh a stone lighter and he'll do 12 rounds no problem if he has to.
I did say a while ago, "Maybe he'll never go the distance, maybe he'll either finish every opponent or they finish him inside the distance."
After last night's refereeing, I think it is a definite aim of Hearn's and Matchroom.

Those championship rounds meant something.

[X]

It's sort of true that Lewis wasn't quite the finished article when he won the title (nor was Mike Tyson, but he was 20 for fucks sale)

However, I cannot remember a period in history when two 'world' heavyweight champions were essentially novices.

it says more about the total lack of decent heavyweights than it does about how good Joshua or Wilder are

[Fenster]

It's sort of true that Lewis wasn't quite the finished article when he won the title (nor was Mike Tyson, but he was 20 for fucks sale)

However, I cannot remember a period in history when two 'world' heavyweight champions were essentially novices.

it says more about the total lack of decent heavyweights than it does about how good Joshua or Wilder are

Which has been said about every era since the dawn of time. Maybe it's because in general big men look crap so only a few standout in any era.

Wilder isn't a novice, he's been protected and is really no different to American guys like Tommy Morrison (without a Mercer moment), who feasted on club fighters until a title opportunity popped up against a fossil.

And AJ's competition in 20 fights is arguably stronger than prime Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Vitali, Wlad etc.

The only difference today is, AJ's entire career/life is played out 24/7 in public, you get to watch and rewatch every single fight, every single move, every single word said is scrutinised. Stick Prime Tyson in this era you've got a protected laughing stock. Lewis and Bowe were constantly considered crap in comparison with past heavyweight fighters.

[Primo Carnera]

It's sort of true that Lewis wasn't quite the finished article when he won the title (nor was Mike Tyson, but he was 20 for fucks sale)

However, I cannot remember a period in history when two 'world' heavyweight champions were essentially novices.

it says more about the total lack of decent heavyweights than it does about how good Joshua or Wilder are

Which has been said about every era since the dawn of time. Maybe it's because in general big men look crap so only a few standout in any era.

Wilder isn't a novice, he's been protected and is really no different to American guys like Tommy Morrison (without a Mercer moment), who feasted on club fighters until a title opportunity popped up against a fossil.

And AJ's competition in 20 fights is arguably stronger than prime Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Vitali, Wlad etc.

The only difference today is, AJ's entire career/life is played out 24/7 in public, you get to watch and rewatch every single fight, every single move, every single word said is scrutinised. Stick Prime Tyson in this era you've got a protected laughing stock. Lewis and Bowe were constantly considered crap in comparison with past heavyweight fighters.

This is so true, not just for Joshua, but just about every modern day fighter. This is one of many reasons I don't like comparing Boxers of different eras. So many differences, some positive, some not so.
for example, the reason AJ's competition in 20 fights is arguably stronger is because they fight so much less nowadays, 20 fights is the equivalent of 35 fights in old money.
Not a criticism of AJ, just how it is nowadays. Fighters don't fight enough to cement a legacy.

[Fenster]

Or maybe popular fighters today don't have the luxury of "padding" their records. It's not like AJ can slip on the undercard of the first Hearn American show (Danny Jacobs) to subtlety introduce himself to a new audience or have a quick defense down at the York Hall before Christmas.

Dillian Whyte got a non-televised slot on the Crawford undercard the other month and all over the boxing fans/forum/media was criticism of the opponent. Dillian fucking Whyte can't even have a gimme, in front of one man and a dog, without being torn to shreds.

Fans today have no understanding of Lennox Lewis being on Gatti and Holyfield undercards in the States. Roy-Toney/Hopkins all made their careers on Tyson/Morrison/Holyfield/Oscar undercards. Imagine today that a fight like Roy Jones-Toney was a mere undercard musing? These type of fights today have a glorified mythical status when in reality they weren't even deemed headline worthy.

[Spicoli]

It's sort of true that Lewis wasn't quite the finished article when he won the title (nor was Mike Tyson, but he was 20 for fucks sale)

However, I cannot remember a period in history when two 'world' heavyweight champions were essentially novices.

it says more about the total lack of decent heavyweights than it does about how good Joshua or Wilder are

Which has been said about every era since the dawn of time. Maybe it's because in general big men look crap so only a few standout in any era.

Wilder isn't a novice, he's been protected and is really no different to American guys like Tommy Morrison (without a Mercer moment), who feasted on club fighters until a title opportunity popped up against a fossil.

And AJ's competition in 20 fights is arguably stronger than prime Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Vitali, Wlad etc.

The only difference today is, AJ's entire career/life is played out 24/7 in public, you get to watch and rewatch every single fight, every single move, every single word said is scrutinised. Stick Prime Tyson in this era you've got a protected laughing stock. Lewis and Bowe were constantly considered crap in comparison with past heavyweight fighters.

Truth is both Morrison and that fossil Foreman would have stuffed Charles Martin into a bucket and claimed a trinket as well. The same scrutiny and ever shining light that is on AJ also affords him those door prizes and massive play. Wilder was same way for a while..always a guy you knew would be steered there but eventually the promotion must release the wheel.

[Fenster]

It's sort of true that Lewis wasn't quite the finished article when he won the title (nor was Mike Tyson, but he was 20 for fucks sale)

However, I cannot remember a period in history when two 'world' heavyweight champions were essentially novices.

it says more about the total lack of decent heavyweights than it does about how good Joshua or Wilder are

Which has been said about every era since the dawn of time. Maybe it's because in general big men look crap so only a few standout in any era.

Wilder isn't a novice, he's been protected and is really no different to American guys like Tommy Morrison (without a Mercer moment), who feasted on club fighters until a title opportunity popped up against a fossil.

And AJ's competition in 20 fights is arguably stronger than prime Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Vitali, Wlad etc.

The only difference today is, AJ's entire career/life is played out 24/7 in public, you get to watch and rewatch every single fight, every single move, every single word said is scrutinised. Stick Prime Tyson in this era you've got a protected laughing stock. Lewis and Bowe were constantly considered crap in comparison with past heavyweight fighters.

Truth is both Morrison and that fossil Foreman would have stuffed Charles Martin into a bucket and claimed a trinket as well. The same scrutiny and ever shining light that is on AJ also affords him those door prizes and massive play. Wilder was same way for a while..always a guy you knew would be steered there but eventually the promotion must release the wheel.

Yes there's always weak "champions" with multiple titles up for grabs.

Remember Bentt? Done Morrison in a round, immediately sold the title to Hide who sold it to Bowe. Big Daddy then dumped it for Holyfield (3) which meant Hide bought back a vacant title (ancient Tucker was deemed worthy) until forced to face some big stiff "useless" Eastern Euro mandatory that brought in a knew era.

During this time Akinwande, Seldon, Briggs, Bruno, etc, were all masquerading as heavyweight champion of the world, carving up the WBC, WBA and IBF lineal between them.

Nothing has changed in our time apart from the faces.

[Spicoli]

Eddie Hearn was on the radio and said AJ is not the finished article. It is extraordinary that a champion of multiple heavyweight titles with a number of defences is still not the finished article. It says more about the quality of heavyweights than how talented the champion really is.

Not throwing blame around, just stating the facts as they are....but it's not just the division but also choice of opponents. The Ring top 10 and champion of those 11 he has fought 2. None higher than the 8th guy.

Again, not blaming, just saying.

Ring ratings have Bellew at 10. Enough said I think.

But for what it's worth. Based on your 'guys inside The Ring top 10' selection process. Joshua is matching himself harder and better than anyone else no? Fury hasnt fought anyone inside the top ten. Neither has Wilder.


Master where's the issue with someone being a champion yet not the finished article? Lennox Lewis was far from the finished article when winning and then losing World titles. It's nothing like extraordinary.

Lennox had earned his title shot beating undefeated Gary Mason, gone through the titles and at least gone the distance.

However I am not blaming AJ, it would be criminal for him not to take the opportunity presented to him. Every other great heavyweight would have taken the title under these circumstances.

I am just pointing out how poor the division really is and Bellew at number 10! No wonder David Haye has not called it a day.

Lewis did well for himself to come Stateside right after Mason and beat up former champ Weaver on commercial tv. He was definitely far from complete and in fairness his title 'claim' was very anti climactic after destroying #1 ranked Ruddock in 4 man tourney as Bowe tucked tail and ran. From there he beats 3 top ten guys before he slips .

Hearn was maybe trying to get ahead of it, but honestly most of the fault came before the bell even sounded with AJs weight and apparently assuming Takam would be a complete pushover. Otherwise he dominated the fight and finally did late what he needed to do from start, working jab and bodywork and combination. He better get his head right next out though and I still think he beats Wilder who is a wide open book regarding chin and facing any form of real adversity.