The Wilder Excuses Begin

[Primo Carnera]

We can continue the eternal merry-go-round. Those who want to believe the only deciding factor here is what Wilder has earned in the past, versus those who actually see that whatever purse the fight generates is going to be largely due to the fact that it's Joshua vs. Wilder, not Joshua vs. TBA. So Team Wilder has been shitty at promoting their fighter. Does that mean they're obliged to take scraps from Team Joshua?

Having said that, I have no problem with both Joshua and Wilder taking another fight before their showdown. Joshua can proceed with Povetkin... and Wilder can fight whoever Wilder is supposed to fight. Assuming they both win, which is by no means a given, then their own fight will be that much bigger..... and Hearn will probably bump up his offer to $13 million.

Yep.

Compelling counter. I'll call Wilder and give him the bad news.

Yeah, and when you call him, tell him to get his team to back him and put in a counter offer.

[TitoFan]

We can continue the eternal merry-go-round. Those who want to believe the only deciding factor here is what Wilder has earned in the past, versus those who actually see that whatever purse the fight generates is going to be largely due to the fact that it's Joshua vs. Wilder, not Joshua vs. TBA. So Team Wilder has been shitty at promoting their fighter. Does that mean they're obliged to take scraps from Team Joshua?

Having said that, I have no problem with both Joshua and Wilder taking another fight before their showdown. Joshua can proceed with Povetkin... and Wilder can fight whoever Wilder is supposed to fight. Assuming they both win, which is by no means a given, then their own fight will be that much bigger..... and Hearn will probably bump up his offer to $13 million.

Yep.

Compelling counter. I'll call Wilder and give him the bad news.

Yeah, and when you call him, tell him to get his team to back him and put in a counter offer.

With your convincing counter argument, I'm sure they'll rush a counter offer right over.

[Primo Carnera]

We can continue the eternal merry-go-round. Those who want to believe the only deciding factor here is what Wilder has earned in the past, versus those who actually see that whatever purse the fight generates is going to be largely due to the fact that it's Joshua vs. Wilder, not Joshua vs. TBA. So Team Wilder has been shitty at promoting their fighter. Does that mean they're obliged to take scraps from Team Joshua?

Having said that, I have no problem with both Joshua and Wilder taking another fight before their showdown. Joshua can proceed with Povetkin... and Wilder can fight whoever Wilder is supposed to fight. Assuming they both win, which is by no means a given, then their own fight will be that much bigger..... and Hearn will probably bump up his offer to $13 million.

Yep.

Compelling counter. I'll call Wilder and give him the bad news.

Yeah, and when you call him, tell him to get his team to back him and put in a counter offer.

With your convincing counter argument, I'm sure they'll rush a counter offer right over.

If you read back at some of my posts on this thread, you’ll see I’ve written many words on the subject, but I’m trying not to be a “rinse and repeat” kind of guy, but each to their own I suppose.

[brocktonblockbust]

Tito has ~won~ so FFS WTF ROFLMFAO

[TitoFan]

We can continue the eternal merry-go-round. Those who want to believe the only deciding factor here is what Wilder has earned in the past, versus those who actually see that whatever purse the fight generates is going to be largely due to the fact that it's Joshua vs. Wilder, not Joshua vs. TBA. So Team Wilder has been shitty at promoting their fighter. Does that mean they're obliged to take scraps from Team Joshua?

Having said that, I have no problem with both Joshua and Wilder taking another fight before their showdown. Joshua can proceed with Povetkin... and Wilder can fight whoever Wilder is supposed to fight. Assuming they both win, which is by no means a given, then their own fight will be that much bigger..... and Hearn will probably bump up his offer to $13 million.

Yep.

Compelling counter. I'll call Wilder and give him the bad news.

Yeah, and when you call him, tell him to get his team to back him and put in a counter offer.

With your convincing counter argument, I'm sure they'll rush a counter offer right over.

If you read back at some of my posts on this thread, you’ll see I’ve written many words on the subject, but I’m trying not to be a “rinse and repeat” kind of guy, but each to their own I suppose.

Well... unlike you, I'm not a rabid fan of either one. It makes no difference to me. I'm just happy the division is worth talking about again. When Wlad was king I couldn't be bothered to talk about the HW division... it was boring as shit. I'll repeat what I've already said. Doesn't matter one way or the other if they decide to face other opponents before facing off. Joshua is the one making noise about wanting Wilder next. Joshua says that.... then his management makes a shit offer. Yes, a shit offer. That's my basic and unwavering point. What is the difficulty in talking percentages, especially if the final haul is such an unknown? It just gives the impression that Hearn wants to either cash out against Wilder... or he's really not interested in a clash at this time. Not a problem. Nobody would blame him for either.

Your reasons for defending Hearn start with the tired old argument that Joshua's fights have made a lot more money than Wilder's. Once again I'll say so what? Joshua is not up there by himself. It takes a credible opponent to help Joshua bring in the cash. Who cares what Wilder has or has not made in the past. It's a foolish argument. It's a bonafide heavyweight championship between two undefeated champions across the pond from each other. The U.K. vs. the U.S. It's not The Anthony Joshua Show, oh and by the way with guest star Deontay Wilder.

It's quite simple, really. Given that the final earnings are such an unknown, doesn't it make more sense to talk percentages than a flat fee? Joshua can say Wilder is worth 30%... and Wilder can counter that he's worth at least 40. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to discuss those numbers.

Again... not a Wilder fan. Just a fan of boxing, and grateful for the sudden fireworks in the HW division.

[palmerq]

Wilder would be silly to accept the first offers, he's gone from, "he should take on whyte for 4 million cause it's a career high payday" to being offered 12.5 millions to fight Joshua, not bad negotiating. Joshua and Hearn are saying they want all four major belts, good leverage for wilder, crunch time is coming of course as povetkin and other mandatories will be calling soon and once again the belts get split up... Good for wilder for not folding yet, he's risking losig out though but whatever that's the game :S

[Fenster]

Speaking of Povetkin, Wilder just lost a $4 million lawsuit, that fight was meant go ahead, they knew all along about Povetkin's problems with the drug testers before swerving it at the last minute.

Dodging Povetkin was definitely the best move he ever made, wouldn't be getting $2m now let alone refusing $5m for Whyte.

[Fenster]

We can continue the eternal merry-go-round. Those who want to believe the only deciding factor here is what Wilder has earned in the past, versus those who actually see that whatever purse the fight generates is going to be largely due to the fact that it's Joshua vs. Wilder, not Joshua vs. TBA. So Team Wilder has been shitty at promoting their fighter. Does that mean they're obliged to take scraps from Team Joshua?

Having said that, I have no problem with both Joshua and Wilder taking another fight before their showdown. Joshua can proceed with Povetkin... and Wilder can fight whoever Wilder is supposed to fight. Assuming they both win, which is by no means a given, then their own fight will be that much bigger..... and Hearn will probably bump up his offer to $13 million.

Yep.

Compelling counter. I'll call Wilder and give him the bad news.

Yeah, and when you call him, tell him to get his team to back him and put in a counter offer.

With your convincing counter argument, I'm sure they'll rush a counter offer right over.

If you read back at some of my posts on this thread, you’ll see I’ve written many words on the subject, but I’m trying not to be a “rinse and repeat” kind of guy, but each to their own I suppose.

Well... unlike you, I'm not a rabid fan of either one. It makes no difference to me. I'm just happy the division is worth talking about again. When Wlad was king I couldn't be bothered to talk about the HW division... it was boring as shit. I'll repeat what I've already said. Doesn't matter one way or the other if they decide to face other opponents before facing off. Joshua is the one making noise about wanting Wilder next. Joshua says that.... then his management makes a shit offer. Yes, a shit offer. That's my basic and unwavering point. What is the difficulty in talking percentages, especially if the final haul is such an unknown? It just gives the impression that Hearn wants to either cash out against Wilder... or he's really not interested in a clash at this time. Not a problem. Nobody would blame him for either.

Your reasons for defending Hearn start with the tired old argument that Joshua's fights have made a lot more money than Wilder's. Once again I'll say so what? Joshua is not up there by himself. It takes a credible opponent to help Joshua bring in the cash. Who cares what Wilder has or has not made in the past. It's a foolish argument. It's a bonafide heavyweight championship between two undefeated champions across the pond from each other. The U.K. vs. the U.S. It's not The Anthony Joshua Show, oh and by the way with guest star Deontay Wilder.

It's quite simple, really. Given that the final earnings are such an unknown, doesn't it make more sense to talk percentages than a flat fee? Joshua can say Wilder is worth 30%... and Wilder can counter that he's worth at least 40. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to discuss those numbers.

Again... not a Wilder fan. Just a fan of boxing, and grateful for the sudden fireworks in the HW division.

Just out of interest, as you keep saying - "It's not the Joshua show, he needs a credible opponent" and "who cares what Wilder made in the past."

How much do you think is fair for Joshua to expect? Bear in mind he made $30+ million for Takam.

[TitoFan]

We can continue the eternal merry-go-round. Those who want to believe the only deciding factor here is what Wilder has earned in the past, versus those who actually see that whatever purse the fight generates is going to be largely due to the fact that it's Joshua vs. Wilder, not Joshua vs. TBA. So Team Wilder has been shitty at promoting their fighter. Does that mean they're obliged to take scraps from Team Joshua?

Having said that, I have no problem with both Joshua and Wilder taking another fight before their showdown. Joshua can proceed with Povetkin... and Wilder can fight whoever Wilder is supposed to fight. Assuming they both win, which is by no means a given, then their own fight will be that much bigger..... and Hearn will probably bump up his offer to $13 million.

Yep.

Compelling counter. I'll call Wilder and give him the bad news.

Yeah, and when you call him, tell him to get his team to back him and put in a counter offer.

With your convincing counter argument, I'm sure they'll rush a counter offer right over.

If you read back at some of my posts on this thread, you’ll see I’ve written many words on the subject, but I’m trying not to be a “rinse and repeat” kind of guy, but each to their own I suppose.

Well... unlike you, I'm not a rabid fan of either one. It makes no difference to me. I'm just happy the division is worth talking about again. When Wlad was king I couldn't be bothered to talk about the HW division... it was boring as shit. I'll repeat what I've already said. Doesn't matter one way or the other if they decide to face other opponents before facing off. Joshua is the one making noise about wanting Wilder next. Joshua says that.... then his management makes a shit offer. Yes, a shit offer. That's my basic and unwavering point. What is the difficulty in talking percentages, especially if the final haul is such an unknown? It just gives the impression that Hearn wants to either cash out against Wilder... or he's really not interested in a clash at this time. Not a problem. Nobody would blame him for either.

Your reasons for defending Hearn start with the tired old argument that Joshua's fights have made a lot more money than Wilder's. Once again I'll say so what? Joshua is not up there by himself. It takes a credible opponent to help Joshua bring in the cash. Who cares what Wilder has or has not made in the past. It's a foolish argument. It's a bonafide heavyweight championship between two undefeated champions across the pond from each other. The U.K. vs. the U.S. It's not The Anthony Joshua Show, oh and by the way with guest star Deontay Wilder.

It's quite simple, really. Given that the final earnings are such an unknown, doesn't it make more sense to talk percentages than a flat fee? Joshua can say Wilder is worth 30%... and Wilder can counter that he's worth at least 40. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to discuss those numbers.

Again... not a Wilder fan. Just a fan of boxing, and grateful for the sudden fireworks in the HW division.

Just out of interest, as you keep saying - "It's not the Joshua show, he needs a credible opponent" and "who cares what Wilder made in the past."

How much do you think is fair for Joshua to expect? Bear in mind he made $30+ million for Takam.

He made $30+ million for Takam, so he should expect the same if not more for Wilder? I think we're looking at it from different angles. You're on the side that believes it's Joshua's money first, and whatever's left over for Wilder. Who is Takam anyway? I'd venture to say probably 0.000001% of boxing fans in the U.S. knew of Takam before the Joshua fight, and now maybe that gets bumped up to 0.000002%. So if the split ended up being 90/10 (don't know what Takam made, but it couldn't have been much), then so be it. But IMO, you shouldn't use the $30+ million to move up from there. Whether you want to accept it or not, you're talking about two undefeated heavyweight champions from two huge rival countries across the Atlantic. Yeah, Parker was undefeated and a champion, but hardly anyone in the States knew about him either.

To answer your question, how much do I think is fair for Joshua to expect? I think 60% of the purse is not an unreasonable figure. If he can coerce Team Wilder into receiving lower than 40%, good for him. Talk in terms of dollars (or euros) and cents makes little sense, if we go by the premise that the purse could be anywhere from $50 million to $100 million. Support in the UK is a given. The big unknown in the equation is how much interest in the fight can and will be generated in the U.S. Another area where some of us don't agree is the thinking that Joshua deserves the overwhelming lion's share simply because most of the fan interest right now is from the UK. Again, who cares. It takes both of them to make the fight. Joshua fights a Takam, the guy should be happy with table scraps. He fights for all the belts in boxing's glamour division.... the opponent deserves to be treated better.

[Memphis]

The US money is an area where I just dont understand peoples thinking. As you've said, The Joshua money is pretty much set in stone for a UK fight. He will fill Wembley, he will get 1.5+ million UK PPV buys. But these numbers are for a UK based fight for a UK audience. The 100 million club just want to throw a million US PPV buys right on top of that. They want all of the money from all of the revenue streams all at the same time. It's just not possible is it?

Are the US Audience going to buy into a PPV event at 50 dollars a pop in the afternoon, that's going on in England, between two guys that aren't exactly setting the World alight in US TV land? If they do, to the tune of a million buys, then you're getting close to your 100 million dollar fight. If not, Showtimes monetary investment in the fight is going to be exactly the same as it was for Parker, the same as HBO are willing to offer. Peanuts.

[Primo Carnera]

We can continue the eternal merry-go-round. Those who want to believe the only deciding factor here is what Wilder has earned in the past, versus those who actually see that whatever purse the fight generates is going to be largely due to the fact that it's Joshua vs. Wilder, not Joshua vs. TBA. So Team Wilder has been shitty at promoting their fighter. Does that mean they're obliged to take scraps from Team Joshua?

Having said that, I have no problem with both Joshua and Wilder taking another fight before their showdown. Joshua can proceed with Povetkin... and Wilder can fight whoever Wilder is supposed to fight. Assuming they both win, which is by no means a given, then their own fight will be that much bigger..... and Hearn will probably bump up his offer to $13 million.

Yep.

Compelling counter. I'll call Wilder and give him the bad news.

Yeah, and when you call him, tell him to get his team to back him and put in a counter offer.

With your convincing counter argument, I'm sure they'll rush a counter offer right over.

If you read back at some of my posts on this thread, you’ll see I’ve written many words on the subject, but I’m trying not to be a “rinse and repeat” kind of guy, but each to their own I suppose.

Well... unlike you, I'm not a rabid fan of either one. It makes no difference to me. I'm just happy the division is worth talking about again. When Wlad was king I couldn't be bothered to talk about the HW division... it was boring as shit. I'll repeat what I've already said. Doesn't matter one way or the other if they decide to face other opponents before facing off. Joshua is the one making noise about wanting Wilder next. Joshua says that.... then his management makes a shit offer. Yes, a shit offer. That's my basic and unwavering point. What is the difficulty in talking percentages, especially if the final haul is such an unknown? It just gives the impression that Hearn wants to either cash out against Wilder... or he's really not interested in a clash at this time. Not a problem. Nobody would blame him for either.

Your reasons for defending Hearn start with the tired old argument that Joshua's fights have made a lot more money than Wilder's. Once again I'll say so what? Joshua is not up there by himself. It takes a credible opponent to help Joshua bring in the cash. Who cares what Wilder has or has not made in the past. It's a foolish argument. It's a bonafide heavyweight championship between two undefeated champions across the pond from each other. The U.K. vs. the U.S. It's not The Anthony Joshua Show, oh and by the way with guest star Deontay Wilder.

It's quite simple, really. Given that the final earnings are such an unknown, doesn't it make more sense to talk percentages than a flat fee? Joshua can say Wilder is worth 30%... and Wilder can counter that he's worth at least 40. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to discuss those numbers.

Again... not a Wilder fan. Just a fan of boxing, and grateful for the sudden fireworks in the HW division.

Sooooooooooo many mistruths in that , I'm not even going to start on. All I will say (yet again) is that Hearn DID offer a percentage. It's just a percentage based on a different figure to what Finkel is quoting.