Why was BLM a "bad" thing?

[TitoFan]

BLM focuses on Black Lives but only a certain select few Black Lives it seems. When it comes to ANY (just, unjust, or whatever) police shooting of a Black person they are 100% all over it....and that's fine, it's good to hold the police accountable, it's good to hold politicians accountable, but at the same time some criminals happen to be black and some criminals who happen to be black EARN getting shot just like some white criminals EARN getting shot. But BLM doesn't want to look at why or how something happened, they just look at the result and the shit hits the fan.

Lyle, show me one bit of evidence where all BLM members don't "want to look at why or how something happened". It's too easy to say that. In the middle of all the shootings, if a justified one occurs, hell..... unfortunately it gets swept up in the outrage. It's not right.... but it's understandable. There's a PATTERN going on here, Lyle.

Michael Brown and the "Hands up don't shoot" narrative that is a LIE forensic evidence and video recording earlier that day shows NOT a "gentle giant" but a big violent man.

Eric Garner was not killed by police he had a heart attack struggling not to get arrested....he was arrested for selling loose cigarettes because the MAYOR OF NEW YORK WANTED TO CRACK DOWN ON THAT....his life matters but that's the cops trying to enforce a shitty law created by shitty politicians and that sucks.

Trayvon Martin physically attacked George Zimmerman until he feared for his life and shot. It doesn't make Trayvon an evil person, it doesn't make Zimmerman a good person, it's a situation where mistakes were made on both sides. If I'm that young and I feel as though I'm being followed I either run or hide or call the cops/tell an authority figure...I don't just attack someone who is following me that's ridiculous. And the MEDIA pushed a certain narrative which exacerbated the situation (and they ban Alex Jones )

For every Micheal Brown there is a Stephon Clark, Lyle.

For every Eric Garner there is a Walter Scott, Lyle.

We can go back and forth all day, but I already stated in my opening post that: "Yes... some of the blacks shot by white officers in the last few years have pretty much asked to be shot. Suspicious behavior, compounded by failure to follow direct police orders.... yeah.... those are all a recipe for disaster."

So poof..... there goes that counter-argument right there. I KNOW there are justified shootings. My guess is many BLM'ers do also. So what is a movement supposed to do..... skip and hop over individual cases? There's a PATTERN. That's what we should be concerned about.

Meanwhile in Chicago...
Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 292
Shot & Wounded: 1526
Total Shot: 1818
Total Homicides: 347

Where is BLM on THAT? They are sooooo wrapped up in police shootings they could give 2 shits about gang shootings. How is it different?

No disrespect, Lyle but..... what's your point? BLM is protesting unwarranted shootings of young black men at the hands of white police officers. The crime statistics in Chicago are another matter altogether. Apples and oranges. Why should the crime statistics in Chicago prevent BLM from protesting what they think is wrong? Chicago's issues are massive. They need well thought out solutions. They actually need forceful solutions. But again..... what's the point here? Do the crime statistics in Chicago have any bearing whatsoever on the number of white police officers who, either due to improper training, racial biases, or any number of reasons exercise total abuse of power when it comes to young black males? No... I don't think so.

BLM was started by Socialist Lesbians which doesn't discredit their cause or movement but it gives an insight as to how they view the world, they view things through that lens and to other people that view is distorted.


And kneeling for the National Anthem...yeah that doesn't help endear this cause to anyone else, it alienates and divides others who otherwise might attempt to help find a solution to this violence.

You may be right about who started BLM who knows. But I CAN tell you that many decent black people have joined BLM because they're seeing the same thing I'm seeing..... a disproportionate amount of shootings of unarmed black men by white cops. Nothing more...... nothing less. Some are warranted? Sure. There's black gangland rampant shootings in Chicago? Damn right. Some BLM'ers are wagon-jumping idiots? Certainly. But none of this invalidates my point.

[Freedom]

[El Kabong]

Lyle, show me one bit of evidence where all BLM members don't "want to look at why or how something happened". It's too easy to say that. In the middle of all the shootings, if a justified one occurs, hell..... unfortunately it gets swept up in the outrage. It's not right.... but it's understandable. There's a PATTERN going on here, Lyle.

Don't you start the ALL game with me too, I get enough of that from everyone else. No, there IS a pattern it's A) Police shooting of black person B ) Demand video evidence C) Regardless of video evidence emotions have been amped up everyone is sharing their unrelated stories of what happened to them as individuals and then D) Riots........at the end of the day what matters is that there was a shooting and a black person is dead...nothing else matters. BLM does that, the MSM does that, it's the very same with mass shootings there's a pattern and instead of "Oh the authorities had information all along and could have stopped it" the focus is "OMG ban guns/make new laws"....those things miss the point entirely.

I KNOW there are justified shootings. My guess is many BLM'ers do also. So what is a movement supposed to do..... skip and hop over individual cases? There's a PATTERN. That's what we should be concerned about.

Yes, YOU know there are justified shootings. BLM'ers may or may not know that, whether or not the shooting was justified isn't their point their point is a black person has died at the hands of the police FULLSTOP. That is their point....not "Well he WAS reaching for a gun" or "He DID violently resist arrest". I don't get myself emotionally worked up over police shootings or mass shootings, I ask questions, I wait for evidence, I piece things together and typically there are easy answers available.

What pattern are you talking about? Just police shooting black people? If that's the case then I would ask that you take a look at the stats.

No disrespect, Lyle but..... what's your point? BLM is protesting unwarranted shootings of young black men at the hands of white police officers. The crime statistics in Chicago are another matter altogether. Apples and oranges. Why should the crime statistics in Chicago prevent BLM from protesting what they think is wrong? Chicago's issues are massive. They need well thought out solutions. They actually need forceful solutions. But again..... what's the point here? Do the crime statistics in Chicago have any bearing whatsoever on the number of white police officers who, either due to improper training, racial biases, or any number of reasons exercise total abuse of power when it comes to young black males? No... I don't think so.

Well first off not all of the BLM protested shootings were carried out by white cops, Philando Castile was shot by Officer Jeronimo Yanez...you know the Yanez family, they came over on the Mayflower. BLM isn't protesting "unwarranted shootings" they are protesting "police shootings of blacks"...hell one of the broads who started BLM is for Prison ABOLITION ...yes Abolishing PRISONS. That is one of the BLM founders who is for that. Not "Get private companies out of the prison game" which I could agree with, but it's "Get rid of prisons". Black Lives are Black Lives, more Black Lives are taken in gang violence than by police....perhaps solving THAT would also solve the police shooting blacks.

Again I implore you to look at the stats. Who is more likely to shoot who? Is there a big disparity in race of who is shot by the police? Per Capita?

My solution for all of this is: more 2 parent households, clean up the schools, graduate high school at the very least, get a job, don't get pregnant or get somebody pregnant until you're married. That would solve a great deal of issues. I'd also like for the police to be less like the local military and more like Sheriff Andy Taylor from the Andy Griffith show....know your community, love your community, protect your community, don't have disdain for where you live or where your patrol is.

You may be right about who started BLM who knows. But I CAN tell you that many decent black people have joined BLM because they're seeing the same thing I'm seeing..... a disproportionate amount of shootings of unarmed black men by white cops. Nothing more...... nothing less. Some are warranted? Sure. There's black gangland rampant shootings in Chicago? Damn right. Some BLM'ers are wagon-jumping idiots? Certainly. But none of this invalidates my point.

I don't blindly hate BLM, I studied up on them. There's ways to make things better and there's ways to make things worse. Cops shooting citizens (of ANY color) unlawfully doesn't help. Rioting when a criminal is shot doesn't help.

I know there's a big media push on this issue, I find it kind of ridiculous...this is not Mississippi Burning, there's no water hoses and attack dogs, there's a giant drug and gang issues in a lot of these cities (white, black, brown, red, etc) and the police are more often being goaded by protesters when it's a tough job already...I don't like the police but they are not going out there every single day and playing The Most Dangerous Game and "hunting" black men...not happening.

Number of people shot to death by the police in the United States in 2017-2018, as of June, by race
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

....looks like a shit ton of white people were killed by the police to me...but hey YOU try making "White Lives Matter" a thing, I ain't touching that shit.

[El Kabong]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...ontre_Hamilton



Sometimes shit happens...it's not ALWAYS an excuse, but it's life. Mental health is also an issue...a guy I went to high school with was shot and killed by the police, I knew the guy fairly well was a friendly acquaintance of his.....but he assaulted a police officer (as in he bodyslammed her) and that officer (a woman) feared for her life and shot him after a taser didn't work....shit happens. I for one am glad that incident occurred well before the BLM movement as my community could have been torn to shit because of it and I don't want to see that. As much as I hate a person having lost their life, you just can't do that shit and expect that to be accepted in society....we're not cavemen we have rules and laws and they need to be followed for society to stay somewhat manageable. If we ARE returning to the ways of the caveman then "Safe spaces" "Body shaming" and all that other pussy PC bullshit is long gone.

[brocktonblockbust]

Tito the mere fact of saying enchanting and storming the streets saying black lives matter clearly very clearly without saying it is an invalid plea not based in reality a clear ignorant plea based on no facts at all. The convenience factor that 87 people were shot in Chicago on Saturday night all black people shooting black people. If they really cared about black lives wouldn't they be protesting that instead?

[TitoFan]

Tito the mere fact of saying enchanting and storming the streets saying black lives matter clearly very clearly without saying it is an invalid plea not based in reality a clear ignorant plea based on no facts at all. The convenience factor that 87 people were shot in Chicago on Saturday night all black people shooting black people. If they really cared about black lives wouldn't they be protesting that instead?

Two different problems, Brock. Like I told Lyle, the Chicago issue obviously has to be addressed. Who wants to live in a city where dozens of people get gunned down in a single weekend? But not all BLM'ers are bad. Some are decent black people who are alarmed at the increase in shootings of unarmed black people by white cops. It doesn't mean all BLM'ers are good people..... it doesn't mean all white-on-black shootings are unwarranted.... it doesn't mean BLM'ers have a right to riot in the streets every time a black guy gets shot.... it doesn't mean any of that.

But there IS a problem and sticking our heads in the sand won't help to resolve it.

[TitoFan]

I think we come at this issue from different angles, even though we both know there are elements to what each other says that is completely right.

But you prefer to talk about BLM from the standpoint of those who prefer to start a riot no matter why, how, where, or under what circumstances the shooting occurred.

I prefer to talk about BLM from the standpoint of the decent black person who is understandably shaken by the pattern of unarmed blacks being shot by white cops, and would like to make a difference.

Neither is totally right.... neither is totally wrong. You HAVE to know there are decent black people with an honest beef who have chosen BLM as their vehicle.

Just like I know there are blacks who just like to jump the bandwagon. Let's just agree on this and avoid the endless circle we can get on.



You mentioned Michael Brown and Eric Garner..... I mentioned Stephon Clark and Walter Scott. Ok so Brown and Garner had it coming to them. Let's go on that assumption. What about the other two? What repercussions have there been based on those incidences? What far-ranging measures have been taken to avoid this sort of murder from happening in front of our very eyes? That's the pattern I'm talking about. And these are the video taped incidents. What about the many incidents that don't get caught on camera? There are issues that need to be addressed... let's not kid ourselves.

Hey, I like your suggestions:

"My solution for all of this is: more 2 parent households, clean up the schools, graduate high school at the very least, get a job, don't get pregnant or get somebody pregnant until you're married. That would solve a great deal of issues. I'd also like for the police to be less like the local military and more like Sheriff Andy Taylor from the Andy Griffith show....know your community, love your community, protect your community, don't have disdain for where you live or where your patrol is."


Those are great long term solutions. What about some immediate ones? Mandatory, enforced use of cop-cams 100% percent of the time.... no excuses. Cop-cam not working? Go home and not get paid. Mandatory is mandatory. That's the best way to force accountability on cops. They want to take out their racist tendencies on innocent people? Let them do it on their own time, in the neighborhood bar or a back alley. Not with their uniform on.


Anyway, point is we're looking at the same situation and addressing it from two different points of view. IMO, whatever brings attention to the woeful job some of these police officers are doing, is fine. I don't condone rioting..... I don't believe in lumping every black-white incident together..... I don't believe in jumping to conclusions. But I'm against this knee-jerk reaction backlash against any protest a black might have the gumption to utter because he/she feels threatened by the attitude of aggressive white cops. It's not fair. Similar shit happens in Arizona with the ethnic profiling, especially when led by a racist asshole like Joe Arpaio. Different pile of shit..... same smell.

[walrus]

I don’t think it’s bad but I think it’s being taken over by those with additional agendas

For all its talk of being a street uprising, Black Lives Matter is increasingly awash in cash, raking in pledges of more than $100 million from liberal foundations and others eager to contribute to what has become the grant-making cause du jour.

The Ford Foundation and Borealis Philanthropy recently announced the formation of the Black-Led Movement Fund [BLMF], a six-year pooled donor campaign aimed at raising $100 million for the Movement for Black Lives coalition.

That funding comes in addition to more than $33 million in grants to the Black Lives Matter movement from top Democratic Party donor George Soros through his Open Society Foundations, as well as grant-making from the Center for American Progress.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.was...-liberal-foun/

[TitoFan]

I don’t think it’s bad but I think it’s being taken over by those with additional agendas

For all its talk of being a street uprising, Black Lives Matter is increasingly awash in cash, raking in pledges of more than $100 million from liberal foundations and others eager to contribute to what has become the grant-making cause du jour.

The Ford Foundation and Borealis Philanthropy recently announced the formation of the Black-Led Movement Fund [BLMF], a six-year pooled donor campaign aimed at raising $100 million for the Movement for Black Lives coalition.

That funding comes in addition to more than $33 million in grants to the Black Lives Matter movement from top Democratic Party donor George Soros through his Open Society Foundations, as well as grant-making from the Center for American Progress.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.was...-liberal-foun/

That's how grassroots movements get prostituted. It's unfortunate..... but it's how these things tend to evolve. The sad part is it ends up taking the focus away from where it should be, and placing it somewhere else. Sad indeed.....

[El Kabong]

But you prefer to talk about BLM from the standpoint of those who prefer to start a riot no matter why, how, where, or under what circumstances the shooting occurred.

That is what I have witnessed them bring to the table...that and deplatforming folks who COULD help them out....remember when Bernie Sanders gave up his podium under duress and allowed BLM to speak? I do...I'm not a Bernie fan, but that's not cool to force people to listen to you, I shut that shit out.

You mentioned Michael Brown and Eric Garner..... I mentioned Stephon Clark and Walter Scott. Ok so Brown and Garner had it coming to them. Let's go on that assumption. What about the other two? What repercussions have there been based on those incidences? What far-ranging measures have been taken to avoid this sort of murder from happening in front of our very eyes? That's the pattern I'm talking about. And these are the video taped incidents. What about the many incidents that don't get caught on camera? There are issues that need to be addressed... let's not kid ourselves.

I don't believe anyone "had it coming". I think all these losses of life are bad and I was the very first poster here to call Walter Scott's murder what it was MURDER. Now Walter Scott DID run from a policeman and that in my book is a "NO-NO"....even if you have something to run from, you're taking a massive risk playing those odds. I get the fact that certain groups of people are scared of the police...I don't trust the police and yes they should be held accountable for their actions....but so should humans in general.

Every incident should be looked at individually. Philando Castile, Walter Scott, Eric Garner, etc all very different cases, all ended up with dead people, all could teach officers and civilians different things. Emotion must be taken out of these situations in order to learn new information. It can and should anger a community when these things happen, but you don't lead with emotion because more mistakes get made and emotion makes people irrational.

Those are great long term solutions. What about some immediate ones? Mandatory, enforced use of cop-cams 100% percent of the time.... no excuses. Cop-cam not working? Go home and not get paid. Mandatory is mandatory. That's the best way to force accountability on cops. They want to take out their racist tendencies on innocent people? Let them do it on their own time, in the neighborhood bar or a back alley. Not with their uniform on.

Jobs, education, decriminalize marijuana, and I would like to say some sort of Police Academy Citizens on Patrol community reach out kind of program could help. We should all be on the same team, all rowing the same direction. Cameras? Meh I mean what good do they do when every single death ends with protests and riots...BLM doesn't discriminate and that's something that needs to be understood. Convicted cop killer Assata Shakur is a "hero" to one of BLM's founders In 2015, Black Lives Matter co-founder Alicia Garza writes: "When I use Assata’s powerful demand in my organizing work, I always begin by sharing where it comes from, sharing about Assata’s significance to the Black Liberation Movement, what its political purpose and message is, and why it’s important in our context."

BLM doesn't want peace in the streets, BLM wants the abolition of police and prison as they deem them "white supremacy"....there must be rule of law, must be.



Are there racist cops? Maybe, I guess...but how many? Are they all white racists or are there black, asian, hispanic racist cops? Look at the number of white people shot by cops (475 in 2017 & 211 so far in 2018 ) compare it to the number of blacks shot by cops (223 in 2017 and 102 so far in 2018 ) and tell me there's a white racist cop problem to the extent that BLM is saying there is especially when 14% of the population in the US is black and they account for around 50% of the violent crime in the US....interactions with police increase when criminal actions increase and when violence is involved there's more likely going to be a shooting.



I don't buy that America is as racist as everyone says it is....is there racism? YES. Is it rampant White on Black racism? I don't buy it...I know there IS racism, but rampant froathing at the mouth fire hose and attack dogs and lynchings and cross burnings....nah, nah I don't buy that at all. I think that minorities are a hell of a lot more racist than they get credit for as well....I still don't think there's the rampant violent racism among any group unless you throw in the gang warfare in places like LA where it's black on brown and vice versa...otherwise nah, I believe in the goodness of the American people.

[TitoFan]

But you prefer to talk about BLM from the standpoint of those who prefer to start a riot no matter why, how, where, or under what circumstances the shooting occurred.

That is what I have witnessed them bring to the table...that and deplatforming folks who COULD help them out....remember when Bernie Sanders gave up his podium under duress and allowed BLM to speak? I do...I'm not a Bernie fan, but that's not cool to force people to listen to you, I shut that shit out.

I hadn't seen that but looked up the video. That was downright DEPLORABLE and DISRESPECTFUL by a couple of bitches who should have been forcibly removed from the stage. They were wearing BLM T-shirts, so the proper thing to do would have been for BLM to condemn that behavior on the spot. If they didn't, bad on them. Bernie should have had bodyguards throw those bitches off the stage, since obviously Bernie wasn't going to do it himself.

You can obviously find and post more examples than I can.... but it doesn't take away from the fact that some people who sympathize with BLM are decent people. Many blacks who are scared about what they read in the news. Lyle, please tell me you're aware of the black college professors and others like them who have been racially profiled to the extent of causing fear and discomfort. Don't make me Google them because I'm not that good at looking for these examples.

So there you have it.... extreme as you can get. Some loudmouth, uncouth women who should've gotten shoved off the stage.... and upstanding citizens who have the God-given right to feel concern about the racial deterioration that began under Obama's watch and has continued. Many times involving the police.

Those are great long term solutions. What about some immediate ones? Mandatory, enforced use of cop-cams 100% percent of the time.... no excuses. Cop-cam not working? Go home and not get paid. Mandatory is mandatory. That's the best way to force accountability on cops. They want to take out their racist tendencies on innocent people? Let them do it on their own time, in the neighborhood bar or a back alley. Not with their uniform on.

Jobs, education, decriminalize marijuana, and I would like to say some sort of Police Academy Citizens on Patrol community reach out kind of program could help. We should all be on the same team, all rowing the same direction. Cameras? Meh I mean what good do they do when every single death ends with protests and riots...BLM doesn't discriminate and that's something that needs to be understood. Convicted cop killer Assata Shakur is a "hero" to one of BLM's founders In 2015, Black Lives Matter co-founder Alicia Garza writes: "When I use Assata’s powerful demand in my organizing work, I always begin by sharing where it comes from, sharing about Assata’s significance to the Black Liberation Movement, what its political purpose and message is, and why it’s important in our context."

We differ here. Cameras are ABSOLUTELY necessary. Accountability..... that's what it's all about. An inept, racist, unprofessional white cop is going to think twice about beating a black man's skull against the pavement after a jaywalking stop if he knows he's wearing a camera that will later detail every single action. Just like we all now need to pass through 2-hour airport security lines...... cops should all wear mandatory cop-cams. If you ain't doing nothing wrong..... you don't got nothing to be afraid of.

To your other point, blacks have historically had different ways to react to what they perceive to be the white man's abuse. Back in the days of Martin Luther King, who favored pacifist marches and using words to resolve racial differences, there was also Malcolm X, who took a slightly different approach. Those were the days of the Black Panthers. There was a black backlash to the white racism of the past. That's why I've said I wouldn't have survived as a black man in the U.S. in the 50's and 60's. 'Cause I would've been of the angry type. Probably not a good recipe for survival back in those days.

It appears BLM was founded by the wrong people for the wrong purposes, going by what I've delved into a bit more. It's too bad, really. Because there most certainly IS a problem. I feel sorry for those poor folks..... the only ones I really care about and speak about..... who have no recourse, and the little recourse they might have is being taken away from them by an organization which is being prostituted and doesn't really represent them at all.




Finally, I agree that America isn't as racist as it used to be. That's because with time and globalization, people are a bit more traveled and educated. Racism = ignorance Pockets of ignorant people still exist, like the KKK and Neo-Nazis.... but they're in a very small minority. Still, it's a shame that racial relations aren't further along than they are. I blame Obama for a lot of these things, because he of all people could've used his milestone election to promote the improvement of racial relations.

Hopefully the more time passes, the less prevalent racism will be.

[brocktonblockbust]

@TitoFan the decent black person as you call it would easily see that the blacks who got shot we're grabbing in their waistband for things or running away when told to stop or resisting arrest and throwing punches when told to put their hands behind their back

That's why I am against black lives matter because it is all a fallacy it is all a street myth

[TitoFan]

@TitoFan the decent black person as you call it would easily see that the blacks who got shot we're grabbing in their waistband for things or running away when told to stop or resisting arrest and throwing punches when told to put their hands behind their back

That's why I am against black lives matter because it is all a fallacy it is all a street myth

A guy gets 8 shots in the back while "jogging" away from the police officer..... and that's good police work?

Fuck. Good thing you didn't decide to be a cop.