Was Mahatma Gandhi a racist?

[TitoFan]

Here's a case that'll warm your heart, Miles. Controversy in a California high school over a science fair project that sets out to prove that "students of African American, Latino and South Asian descent didn’t have the intelligence to participate in the school’s Humanities and International Studies (HISP) college preparatory program". I would call that racist and inflammatory, but I suppose it's right up your alley. Blacks, Latinos, and South Asian all rolled up into the same disposable, low-IQ ball. Cute. A convenient way to further racist agendas, veiled and masquerading as a science project.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/ed...201449649.html


This is the type of useless drivel that keeps propagating the same racist beliefs from the old generations to the new generations. This inexplicable need to pigeon-hole people into tidy little groups.

[TitoFan]

I'm more of the technical, math and physics persuasion..... and human behavior is not my forte. So I like my studies "un-flawed", based on solid premises. When a study or test is subject to controversy and opposing facts, I tend to shy away from anything borne from those studies or tests. IMO, you seem too willing to embrace something which has long been deemed flawed and controversial. It's an old and unwinnable argument, I'm afraid. As long as there are people with agendas or axes to grind, there will be tests, measures, graphs, and "proof" to make their points. Sad, really.

[TitoFan]

I could bore you with personal facts and observations from a lifetime of experience that would shoot your IQ fantasies down, Miles. But in 13 years I've never made a habit out of putting my personal life on the forum. So you just keep on playing with your IQ-by-country blocks and using them for your grand observations on races and ethnicities, telling everyone who should have children and who shouldn't. I'm convinced you'll mature someday and look back on this with some amusement.

[Gandalf]

I think you are getting emotional now, Tito. Personal facts and observations are hardly going to shoot down statistical evidence which indeed suggests that there are IQ differentials between races. Believe me, I think it is a horrible thing and that is why I do make suggestions like making sure you have the material, emotional and dual parental capacity to give your child the best shot you can. In a multicultural melting pot like America IQ should all things considered be an average of around 100 points among each of the races, but that does not appear to be the case. This suggests a combination of genetic, environmental, developmental etc differences at work. That's what I was trying to say earlier, when I said I have done okay despite bad parenting, so in that sense environmental factors did not hinder me and that is where I do agree with your concluding paragraph. I would like it to be more of an environmental issue though. The lack of dual parenting, the lack of goal inspiring dual parenting, a lack of nutrition, bad cultural influences, whatever. I do not want it to be genetic. However, it does seemingly exist as a factor and this is how it is.

On the flip side of the negativity that you are talking about, I see it as more of a positive and that we need to kick certain groups up the arse and tell them to do better and to maybe not allow kids to be used as a tool to claim welfare. Clean up your own room before you have a child and at least in that sense the child might stand a chance. Don't get pregnant to some low IQ bloke who will go to prison and then you as a low IQ Mum are now also giving your child yet more obstacles? That is a messy, messy room. Like you yourself have pointed out. In Asia they tend to have tidier rooms. I would like that to be the difference, but it isn't clear that it is whence the IQ numbers within America itself. Is it racist to point out data? I don't think so. Some can use it in dark ways, I prefer to look at it as a positive means to improve things and it does not mean Communism.

[brocktonblockbust]

Why don't people from the Congo score as high as people from Korea? Why aren't there that many astrophysicists from Yemen as opposed to from Germany? Why are the top neurosurgeons in the world not from Venezuela or the Dominican Republic? Why didn't Cameroon or Laos go to the Moon? Why was Albert Einstein a German Jew? Why was Isaac Newton an Englishmen? Why was Copernicus a Pole? Why was Christian Huygens Scandinavian? Why was the human genome decoded by Japanese and German and Australian and American scientists, and not by Haitian and Indonesian and Nigerian and Mexican scientists?

[Gandalf]

The Ashkenazi Jews score way higher than anyone else in the IQ contest. Noam Chomsky is of course one and they tend to be very highly represented in academia and positions of influence. I am hardly crying that I am not one and that Noam Chomsky is smarter than me. There are differentials and we have to accept and come to terms with it, but if possible to read more Chomsky and try and learn something from him too. I don't think he would be happy with the IQ debate.

[brocktonblockbust]

I know this that Armenians are very very high up in the world in astrophysics as are the Indians

[Gandalf]

Personally I just accept that there are differences between people and do of course treat everyone as an individual. I am hardly conversing with a cold Hannibal Lector look in my eye thinking 'What is the IQ of this specimen?' In most day to day things it is kind of irrelevant. It only matters if you become a scientist, or an engineer, or astrophysicist, those kinds of things. I don't see the fuss but then again I really do not consider myself particularly racist or even nefarious. I just accept things because that's the way they are. We have natural highs and lows and gradients between. My cat is smart but clearly no match for the IQ test despite being called Chomsky. I think no less of her and love her all the same. It's not a contest.

[TitoFan]

Why don't people from the Congo score as high as people from Korea? Why aren't there that many astrophysicists from Yemen as opposed to from Germany? Why are the top neurosurgeons in the world not from Venezuela or the Dominican Republic? Why didn't Cameroon or Laos go to the Moon? Why was Albert Einstein a German Jew? Why was Isaac Newton an Englishmen? Why was Copernicus a Pole? Why was Christian Huygens Scandinavian? Why was the human genome decoded by Japanese and German and Australian and American scientists, and not by Haitian and Indonesian and Nigerian and Mexican scientists?

According to Miles, because:

Koreans are born smarter than Congolese
Germans are born smarter than Yemenis
Venezuelans and Dominicans aren't smart enough at birth
etc
etc
etc

It's programmed into their DNA, and there's no escaping it.

In fact, you take a Congolese baby from Congolese parents.... remove him from his environment and into a foster home in Germany.... give him a typical German upbringing.... and he'll still be a flunkie.

[El Kabong]

The problem is rather than add a page to your book your scribbled all over it ripped it out and screwed it into a ball. Surely you don't think National Geographic and The American Anthropological Society are all lefty sjws? Or do you just think you know better than anyone about everything? It's hardly irrelevant the quotes are backed up with sources unlike your memes and the fake news and disinformation you flood the site with.

There is often way more genetic difference between two black people than a black person and a white person. It's not semantics it just demonstrates how 'race' is more about appearance than anything else. Literally skin deep.

Not all cultures is another argument.

Look at Freedoms opening post and it's about denial. He groups blacks, whites etc and tries to argue a correlation that is not there. Whites are not oppressed.

The world is diverse and complicated and you and Freedom are trying to deny that reality. Ghandi had lots in common with people all over the world, which is why his stand against the barbarity of the British Empire in India was so universally admired. Was he a Saint? Of course not, I think it was Hitchens who pointed out Ghandis desire to put a spinning wheel in each home etc was only the tip of his aversion to modernity. He wanted to get rid of railways, lawyers, doctors, electricity etc.

Ghandis pacifism extended into stupidity arguing that if the Jews embraced his non violent actions they would melt Hitlers heart.

So it does not surprise me that good people can do bad things or that Ghandi was a racist just like most of us are not surprised that evil child abusing, corpse shagging bastards like Saville can do good things. Like raising millions for the Hospitals that housed the morgue he probably swiped the shrouds off like a real world twisted version of Tinder.

National Geographic at the very least didn't USED to be all lefties.

The American Anthropological Society? Not sure, let's take a gander at Anthropology in general...


....oh...well you certainly can't draw any conclusions from THAT

"There is often way more genetic difference between two black people than a black person and a white person".....I don't even disagree with you but PLEASE hammer home your inane point which at the end of the day ends up being genetics matter in blood transfusion, organ and bone marrow transplants FACT.

"Look at Freedom'.....yeah Freedom answers for Freedom, I don't answer for him.

Gandhi indeed had a lot in common with other people of the era even to the extent he called blacks Kaffirs which is why in Ghana they want his statue at the University taken away. I think Gandhi accomplished more good than harm, but hey what's a statue if it can't be torn down?

I don't even know what the hell you're on about with Saville....yeah he helped charities as he helped himself, he was an evil disgraceful slimeball and he was allowed to do that much the same manner Sandusky was allowed to at Penn State...same deal, charity work with kids, kids end up being the victims....or Boystown.

According to Miles, because:

Koreans are born smarter than Congolese
Germans are born smarter than Yemenis
Venezuelans and Dominicans aren't smart enough at birth
etc
etc
etc

It's programmed into their DNA, and there's no escaping it.

In fact, you take a Congolese baby from Congolese parents.... remove him from his environment and into a foster home in Germany.... give him a typical German upbringing.... and he'll still be a flunkie.

I get what you're saying Tito, but at the same time I see universities telling Asian students they have to be absolutely perfect in order to get in, white males ditto, and everyone else has some slack because these places of higher education need diversity.

It's hard to reconcile "Everyone has the potential for genius" and "A 100 for an Asian student really equals an 80 and an 80 for a Black student equals 110". It may also be a disservice to make admission easier for some students only for them to have trouble when they finally go to class at the university....could set some folks up for failure which I don't think is very healthy. Then again, some folks might rise to the occasion. I don't know, but I know focusing on diversity at school means the actual education part comes second and I don't much like that.

[Gandalf]

I don't make the data Tito. Peterson and Harris have interpreted the same things from the existing research too, so it is not only me. These men are far more knowledgeable than I. You are also misepresenting my arguments. I have said that I would like it to be environmental, but we cannot rule out that genetics are at work. It seems that genetics might well be a factor. Global IQ is falling not rising. The smarter the population is the less children they are likely to have. It is falling because less intelligent people have far less restraint and it seems generational patterns repeat more often than they do not.

You get smart and stupid people in every country, it's just that some countries have more or less than others. If there are no differences in race then why are Asian students having to sue Harvard because they are seemingly being pushed out due to racist quota systems for other races? They are smart, Tito.

If it is all about the family and environment then why are we promoting family situations that can only make non Asians even less competitive? Cultural Marxism reduces downwards instead of aspiring upwards and rewards poor behavior that results in yet more IQ differentials. Now that is my take on it. Even North Koreans have an average IQ of 105.

The Marxist attitude is that it is all economic, the cultural Marxist that it is environmental, the logical one is that it is a bit of both but maybe even some genetics and good old nutrition too. Inbreeding which is quite prevalent in the Middle East will also result in physical and mental decline. Kids who are not breast fed also risk losing intellectual capacity. All kinds of factors at work. So, yes, it seems differences do exist. I cannot help that being so. It doesn't bother me. It seems to have you in a tizzy though.

[Beanz]

Amazing that EVERYTHING comes down to politics for you Lyle, that is laughable. Why should anyone value anything you say when all you want to do is talk down to everyone including those with considerably more expertise than yourself? And no I am not talking about myself.


You have zero credibility. You have openly and knowingly spread and posted complete fabrications of reality here on Saddo, Fake News, invented outrage etc and now you want to just make up other peoples replies. Freedom is relevant because it's his thread you plonker.


Everyone here puts their cards on the table yet you are curiously silent about your own work, maybe that would help others understand where the fucking hell your head is at. You want to discredit Anthropology because their are no registered Republicans in the 'study' you pulled out of your arse?

Fucking hell man you are reaching now

[TitoFan]

I believe we're all born with the same brain, Miles. And any difference in mental capacity yes... it's due to genetics. But genetics in a different way than is being pushed by the "my country is better than your country" agenda. Two extremely intelligent people have a child together... chances are their offspring will be extremely intelligent also. Two people with underdeveloped mental capacities have a child together, yes..... chances are their offspring won't grow up to be rocket scientists either. But in the rush to attribute this to skin color, country of origin, etc., these so-called "social scientists" are all too willing to accept flawed studies and pass them off as gospel. Ask yourself, in the end.... what is the confounding importance of ranking countries by so-called IQ... other than to perpetuate the feelings of hatred, superiority and bigotry we're supposed to be trying to eliminate?

I'll part with my customs and give you a personal anecdote.

I was born in New York from Puerto Rican parents. While still a toddler, my dad decided he'd rather raise his children in Puerto Rico, so we moved down here. I was raised here, with occasional trips to the States when my dad was transferred (federal job). My parents stressed the importance of higher education, so me and most of my siblings got our college degrees, and have had professional success in life. I've been blessed with success in my personal life as well, and I attribute that to the values instilled in me by my parents, most notably my father, who I always considered to be a very wise man and a wonderful father.

By contrast, I have some cousins from my mother's side who were born in New York and were raised there their entire lives. They did not have the same type of parental guidance... my aunt and uncle split up while my cousins were still very young. My aunt, who I love dearly, was horrible at raising her kids and thus lost them to outside, street influences. Without going into too much detail, most of my cousins have been abject failures in life. As an example, my father always instilled the importance of retaining our native language (Spanish), even as we were learning English. By contrast, my cousins don't speak Spanish, and the English they speak isn't anything to write home about.


If you take my story, and extrapolate it to other races and ethnicities, you might find similar circumstances.

Now, I'm not trying to convince you and Brock to change your opinions, 'cause I know you won't. But just to say that just like you think I'm wrong, I also believe you are wrong.

[Beanz]

I don't make the data Tito. Peterson and Harris have interpreted the same things from the existing research too, so it is not only me. These men are far more knowledgeable than I. You are also misepresenting my arguments. I have said that I would like it to be environmental, but we cannot rule out that genetics are at work. It seems that genetics might well be a factor. Global IQ is falling not rising. The smarter the population is the less children they are likely to have. It is falling because less intelligent people have far less restraint and it seems generational patterns repeat more often than they do not.

You get smart and stupid people in every country, it's just that some countries have more or less than others. If there are no differences in race then why are Asian students having to sue Harvard because they are seemingly being pushed out due to racist quota systems for other races? They are smart, Tito.

If it is all about the family and environment then why are we promoting family situations that can only make non Asians even less competitive? Cultural Marxism reduces downwards instead of aspiring upwards and rewards poor behavior that results in yet more IQ differentials. Now that is my take on it. Even North Koreans have an average IQ of 105.

The Marxist attitude is that it is all economic, the cultural Marxist that it is environmental, the logical one is that it is a bit of both but maybe even some genetics and good old nutrition too. Inbreeding which is quite prevalent in the Middle East will also result in physical and mental decline. Kids who are not breast fed also risk losing intellectual capacity. All kinds of factors at work. So, yes, it seems differences do exist. I cannot help that being so. It doesn't bother me. It seems to have you in a tizzy though.

You are all over the shop here mate. Firstly you are not less knowledgeable than Peterson and Harris on this. That is something they are relying on you believing but it need not be true.

If in doubt go to the source. Peterson and Harris are talking about The Bell Curve yes?. It's author Murray is not only part of a conservative think tank his Phd is in Politics not sociology (and surely Reverend Peterson has banned Sociology as a soft science taught by Marxists anyway?). Murray's agenda seeps right thru it. He has reached his conclusions long before cobbling together a lot of the discredited 'science'. Read the Cultural Marxism thread becasue all you are doing is repeating christian capitalist propaganda and defending an elite based on corruption and nepotism not intelligence and achievement. Next you will be telling us how all the Windsors and Trumps are there because of high IQ's.

IQ's are a comfy prop for those who excel in them but they do not predict success even.

Thanks for pretending that my IQ (which is probably incredibly low believe it or not) was inherited from Gyspy Genes but there are no Ashkenazi in my family. The Jewish side goes back from Spain/Sicily/Morroco/Iraq/Egypt thru Sephardic and Karaite Jews.

Also my full siblings are thick as shit, my half siblings are not.

[brocktonblockbust]

Why d o we have to take the Congolese kid and bring him to Germany in order for him to have been raised in a country with a a super high educational system?

Why isn't Congo already in possession of a super high-quality educational system?

That was a Nifty little pivot Tito but it still comes back to the same question