Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

[Alpha]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

Yeah and i'm just saying in my opinion Loma's opp is superior and it's pretty clear.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Loma and Usyk's records and comparisons.

What do you consider Loma's 3 best wins?

You're accussing me of "bias" and "deception" for offering a blase opinion about who is best in a MYTHICAL sense? What? Since when have I ever "ignored" Loma's loss to Salido?

Mikey had ONE FIGHT at 135 against Zlaticanin, your precious WBC belt was the one stripped from Linares. Linares went unbeaten for SIX YEARS at 135 picking up the WBC, WBA and RING belt along the way.

And yet I still conceded to you guys Mikey was no.1 because YOU KNOW Mikey kills Linares. YOU KNOW who wins before fighters even meet.

"Bias, lies and deception" in a silly fantasy scenario based solely on ones personal preference!!! Laughable.

Hold fire, comparing opposition is not mythical, P4P is. With opposition there is more to go on. I'm just trying to understand why you rate Loma's record so highly, when compared to others in that group it's all pretty even. I know your a Loma fan, so am I. But his record is far from a murderers row.

Linares was facing weak opposition over that time, after being stopped twice by guys who I don't think many would have considered top 10 going in.

Mikey may beat Linares, but that's not what I said, I said Garcia was #1.

I don't rate Loma's record so highly I rate it superior to Crawford and Mikey's, then I factor in my own personal preference that Loma is THE best boxer in the world, the best by "my eyes," the most talented, the best single talent to watch.

All rankings are based solely on opinion. Boxing isn't like any other sport as we quite simply don't have enough data/evidence to ever definitively prove one fighter is better than another.

Why was Mikey no.1 at 135? He had ONE fight in the division and that ONE fight wasn't against the no.1 guy.

Yeah we'll have to agree to disagree on it being superior. The stuff about best boxer and eye test is not in regards to opposition.

How many fights has Loma had at 135? And what #1 guy did Linares beat? Mikey sparked Zlaticanin, who many considered #2 at the time. For me that put Mikey ahead of Linares who had already suffered loses to Thompson and DeMarco and also looked vulnerable against Mitchell.

Loma's record is not even superior to Usyk or Inoue's in my opinion. You could even add Wangek, GGG and Canelo based on the opposition they have fought.

There's no correct way to do P4P.

Who was considered no.1 ahead of Zlaticanin?

I had Linares at #1 but with Linares' inactivity up to the Crolla fight I guess some may have had Zlaticanin at the top.

[Fenster]

Right, so you ranked Linares no.1 along with the Ring and every other major publication. However, you then ranked Garcia no.1 for beating Zlat, you believe that sole win trumps everything Linares did at lightweight?

These were the credentials of my number one lightweight - WBC, WBA, Ring champion and no.1 lightweight who was on a 13 fight unbeaten streak going into the Loma fight.

These were the credentials of your no.1 lightweight - picked up a WBC title, which had been stripped from the no.1 Linares, against the not number one in Zlaticacin.

And I never once said you can't claim Garcia as the best lightweight even though Linares CLEARLY has the strongest resume at 135. Why? Because it's all just OPINIONS!!! Just like P4P. I could make a case for half-a-dozen fighters without giving it a second thought.

I'm judging fighters solely by their exploits in the ring yet being accused of "bias" and "lies" and "deception!!!"

It's called consistency lads.

[Alpha]

Right, so you ranked Linares no.1 along with the Ring and every other major publication. However, you then ranked Garcia no.1 for beating Zlat, you believe that sole win trumps everything Linares did at lightweight?

These were the credentials of my number one lightweight - WBC, WBA, Ring champion and no.1 lightweight who was on a 13 fight unbeaten streak going into the Loma fight.

These were the credentials of your no.1 lightweight - picked up a WBC title, which had been stripped from the no.1 Linares, against the not number one in Zlaticacin.

And I never once said you can't claim Garcia as the best lightweight even though Linares CLEARLY has the strongest resume at 135. Why? Because it's all just OPINIONS!!! Just like P4P. I could make a case for half-a-dozen fighters without giving it a second thought.

I'm judging fighters solely by their exploits in the ring yet being accused of "bias" and "lies" and "deception!!!"

It's called consistency lads.

Like I said Linares was inactive, and Garcia took out the #2 guy. What was the highest rated guy Linares beat in that time? Linares was only #1 by default, guys like Figueroa, Abril and Broner had moved on. Who did Linares win his WBC title from? And again the Ring title was crowned on a #1 vs #3.

[Fenster]

Right, so you ranked Linares no.1 along with the Ring and every other major publication. However, you then ranked Garcia no.1 for beating Zlat, you believe that sole win trumps everything Linares did at lightweight?

These were the credentials of my number one lightweight - WBC, WBA, Ring champion and no.1 lightweight who was on a 13 fight unbeaten streak going into the Loma fight.

These were the credentials of your no.1 lightweight - picked up a WBC title, which had been stripped from the no.1 Linares, against the not number one in Zlaticacin.

And I never once said you can't claim Garcia as the best lightweight even though Linares CLEARLY has the strongest resume at 135. Why? Because it's all just OPINIONS!!! Just like P4P. I could make a case for half-a-dozen fighters without giving it a second thought.

I'm judging fighters solely by their exploits in the ring yet being accused of "bias" and "lies" and "deception!!!"

It's called consistency lads.

Like I said Linares was inactive, and Garcia took out the #2 guy. What was the highest rated guy Linares beat in that time? Linares was only #1 by default, guys like Figueroa, Abril and Broner had moved on. Who did Linares win his WBC title from? And again the Ring title was crowned on a #1 vs #3.

Yeah like I said i'm dealing with what happened in the ring not what did not.

Linares was no.1 by default? Linares was inactive? Linares never beat the no.1? Linares WBC and Ring belts aren't kosher?

Yet you rated him no.1

[Alpha]

Right, so you ranked Linares no.1 along with the Ring and every other major publication. However, you then ranked Garcia no.1 for beating Zlat, you believe that sole win trumps everything Linares did at lightweight?

These were the credentials of my number one lightweight - WBC, WBA, Ring champion and no.1 lightweight who was on a 13 fight unbeaten streak going into the Loma fight.

These were the credentials of your no.1 lightweight - picked up a WBC title, which had been stripped from the no.1 Linares, against the not number one in Zlaticacin.

And I never once said you can't claim Garcia as the best lightweight even though Linares CLEARLY has the strongest resume at 135. Why? Because it's all just OPINIONS!!! Just like P4P. I could make a case for half-a-dozen fighters without giving it a second thought.

I'm judging fighters solely by their exploits in the ring yet being accused of "bias" and "lies" and "deception!!!"

It's called consistency lads.

Like I said Linares was inactive, and Garcia took out the #2 guy. What was the highest rated guy Linares beat in that time? Linares was only #1 by default, guys like Figueroa, Abril and Broner had moved on. Who did Linares win his WBC title from? And again the Ring title was crowned on a #1 vs #3.

Yeah like I said i'm dealing with what happened in the ring not what did not.

Linares was no.1 by default? Linares was inactive? Linares never beat the no.1? Linares WBC and Ring belts aren't kosher?

Yet you rated him no.1

Yea until Mikey entered the division with a ko of the #2 guy.

Just because I had Linares at 1 doesn't mean he was the consensus or undisputed #1 who had beat everyone else. Its like say 122 at the moment, I'd have Dogboe at 1 but Vargas or Roman could just as easily be there. If Rigo can't back and ko'd the #2 in 2 rounds, most would put him at #1.

Or say Tyson Fury for example ko'd Wilder in his comeback fight to the division, it would be reasonable for people to rate him #1.

[mikeeod]

Regardless of how you personally feel about ranking Linares 1 or 2, the guy was a solid champ and tough fight. Mikey is a p4p fighter on most lists, so even if you have him over Linares at that weight, that doesn’t diminish Linares’s pedigree. Other good points brought up was Loma beating Gary Russel jr., who looks better and better with each fight. Walters didn’t just beat Vic and Donaire, he destroyed those guys. Loma didn’t just beat Walters, he humiliated him and made him quit.

To your points about Horn, Postol, and Gamboa being better wins: Gamboa was undefeated but coming off a year lay off and smaller, Postol made his name off matthyse who has turned out to be a limited, crude puncher, and Horn got a gift decision/robbery against a past his prime Manny. This is all subjective in how we look at certain wins/losses so not saying you are wrong and I’m right. Just saying that I personally think Loma has faced tougher comp and should be ranked higher than Bud right now.

[powerpuncher]

Regardless of how you personally feel about ranking Linares 1 or 2, the guy was a solid champ and tough fight. Mikey is a p4p fighter on most lists, so even if you have him over Linares at that weight, that doesn’t diminish Linares’s pedigree. Other good points brought up was Loma beating Gary Russel jr., who looks better and better with each fight. Walters didn’t just beat Vic and Donaire, he destroyed those guys. Loma didn’t just beat Walters, he humiliated him and made him quit.

To your points about Horn, Postol, and Gamboa being better wins: Gamboa was undefeated but coming off a year lay off and smaller, Postol made his name off matthyse who has turned out to be a limited, crude puncher, and Horn got a gift decision/robbery against a past his prime Manny. This is all subjective in how we look at certain wins/losses so not saying you are wrong and I’m right. Just saying that I personally think Loma has faced tougher comp and should be ranked higher than Bud right now.

I think it’s about the gap in the competition. I don’t think there’s much of a gap, therefore, Crawford takes the spot over Loma. If I thought that Loma’s Competition was that much better than Crawford’s then I would put Loma over him. It’s just hard to believe that people think that Loma’s resume is head and shoulders above Crawford’s.

[Alpha]

Regardless of how you personally feel about ranking Linares 1 or 2, the guy was a solid champ and tough fight. Mikey is a p4p fighter on most lists, so even if you have him over Linares at that weight, that doesn’t diminish Linares’s pedigree. Other good points brought up was Loma beating Gary Russel jr., who looks better and better with each fight. Walters didn’t just beat Vic and Donaire, he destroyed those guys. Loma didn’t just beat Walters, he humiliated him and made him quit.

To your points about Horn, Postol, and Gamboa being better wins: Gamboa was undefeated but coming off a year lay off and smaller, Postol made his name off matthyse who has turned out to be a limited, crude puncher, and Horn got a gift decision/robbery against a past his prime Manny. This is all subjective in how we look at certain wins/losses so not saying you are wrong and I’m right. Just saying that I personally think Loma has faced tougher comp and should be ranked higher than Bud right now.

I think the point that was originally brought up was that most of these guys records are on par and missing an elite win.

I don't think I said those wins were better, just that they were on par with what Loma has done.

You can do the same for Loma's record, I have stated that I feel Russell Jr is Loma's best win, as have others. But what had he done when Loma fought him? His record was padded to the max. Fenster likes to use HOF, but Linares is a push, and if Rigo ever gets in it won't be for anything he did at 130, where Loma fought him. I would consider the Walters and Postol wins to be very similar.

Crawford has been recognized as lineal champ in 2 divisions, now you can sh-t on the divisions all you like, but if it was so easy to do, why don't we have more fighters recognized as lineal champs?

I don't even have Crawford or Loma at #1 P4P, the point I'm trying to make is that Loma's record is far from superior over the likes of Usyk, Inoue, Mikey, Crawford, Wangek, Canelo and GGG, based on the opposition they have faced. And lets remember that Loma, whatever the circumstances involving the fight, the fact remains Loma lost to Salido.

I asked for what people considered Loma's 3 best wins, even top 5, so we can do a proper comparison.