Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

[Fenster]

Right, so you ranked Linares no.1 along with the Ring and every other major publication. However, you then ranked Garcia no.1 for beating Zlat, you believe that sole win trumps everything Linares did at lightweight?

These were the credentials of my number one lightweight - WBC, WBA, Ring champion and no.1 lightweight who was on a 13 fight unbeaten streak going into the Loma fight.

These were the credentials of your no.1 lightweight - picked up a WBC title, which had been stripped from the no.1 Linares, against the not number one in Zlaticacin.

And I never once said you can't claim Garcia as the best lightweight even though Linares CLEARLY has the strongest resume at 135. Why? Because it's all just OPINIONS!!! Just like P4P. I could make a case for half-a-dozen fighters without giving it a second thought.

I'm judging fighters solely by their exploits in the ring yet being accused of "bias" and "lies" and "deception!!!"

It's called consistency lads.

[Alpha]

Right, so you ranked Linares no.1 along with the Ring and every other major publication. However, you then ranked Garcia no.1 for beating Zlat, you believe that sole win trumps everything Linares did at lightweight?

These were the credentials of my number one lightweight - WBC, WBA, Ring champion and no.1 lightweight who was on a 13 fight unbeaten streak going into the Loma fight.

These were the credentials of your no.1 lightweight - picked up a WBC title, which had been stripped from the no.1 Linares, against the not number one in Zlaticacin.

And I never once said you can't claim Garcia as the best lightweight even though Linares CLEARLY has the strongest resume at 135. Why? Because it's all just OPINIONS!!! Just like P4P. I could make a case for half-a-dozen fighters without giving it a second thought.

I'm judging fighters solely by their exploits in the ring yet being accused of "bias" and "lies" and "deception!!!"

It's called consistency lads.

Like I said Linares was inactive, and Garcia took out the #2 guy. What was the highest rated guy Linares beat in that time? Linares was only #1 by default, guys like Figueroa, Abril and Broner had moved on. Who did Linares win his WBC title from? And again the Ring title was crowned on a #1 vs #3.

[Fenster]

Right, so you ranked Linares no.1 along with the Ring and every other major publication. However, you then ranked Garcia no.1 for beating Zlat, you believe that sole win trumps everything Linares did at lightweight?

These were the credentials of my number one lightweight - WBC, WBA, Ring champion and no.1 lightweight who was on a 13 fight unbeaten streak going into the Loma fight.

These were the credentials of your no.1 lightweight - picked up a WBC title, which had been stripped from the no.1 Linares, against the not number one in Zlaticacin.

And I never once said you can't claim Garcia as the best lightweight even though Linares CLEARLY has the strongest resume at 135. Why? Because it's all just OPINIONS!!! Just like P4P. I could make a case for half-a-dozen fighters without giving it a second thought.

I'm judging fighters solely by their exploits in the ring yet being accused of "bias" and "lies" and "deception!!!"

It's called consistency lads.

Like I said Linares was inactive, and Garcia took out the #2 guy. What was the highest rated guy Linares beat in that time? Linares was only #1 by default, guys like Figueroa, Abril and Broner had moved on. Who did Linares win his WBC title from? And again the Ring title was crowned on a #1 vs #3.

Yeah like I said i'm dealing with what happened in the ring not what did not.

Linares was no.1 by default? Linares was inactive? Linares never beat the no.1? Linares WBC and Ring belts aren't kosher?

Yet you rated him no.1

[Alpha]

Right, so you ranked Linares no.1 along with the Ring and every other major publication. However, you then ranked Garcia no.1 for beating Zlat, you believe that sole win trumps everything Linares did at lightweight?

These were the credentials of my number one lightweight - WBC, WBA, Ring champion and no.1 lightweight who was on a 13 fight unbeaten streak going into the Loma fight.

These were the credentials of your no.1 lightweight - picked up a WBC title, which had been stripped from the no.1 Linares, against the not number one in Zlaticacin.

And I never once said you can't claim Garcia as the best lightweight even though Linares CLEARLY has the strongest resume at 135. Why? Because it's all just OPINIONS!!! Just like P4P. I could make a case for half-a-dozen fighters without giving it a second thought.

I'm judging fighters solely by their exploits in the ring yet being accused of "bias" and "lies" and "deception!!!"

It's called consistency lads.

Like I said Linares was inactive, and Garcia took out the #2 guy. What was the highest rated guy Linares beat in that time? Linares was only #1 by default, guys like Figueroa, Abril and Broner had moved on. Who did Linares win his WBC title from? And again the Ring title was crowned on a #1 vs #3.

Yeah like I said i'm dealing with what happened in the ring not what did not.

Linares was no.1 by default? Linares was inactive? Linares never beat the no.1? Linares WBC and Ring belts aren't kosher?

Yet you rated him no.1

Yea until Mikey entered the division with a ko of the #2 guy.

Just because I had Linares at 1 doesn't mean he was the consensus or undisputed #1 who had beat everyone else. Its like say 122 at the moment, I'd have Dogboe at 1 but Vargas or Roman could just as easily be there. If Rigo can't back and ko'd the #2 in 2 rounds, most would put him at #1.

Or say Tyson Fury for example ko'd Wilder in his comeback fight to the division, it would be reasonable for people to rate him #1.

[mikeeod]

Regardless of how you personally feel about ranking Linares 1 or 2, the guy was a solid champ and tough fight. Mikey is a p4p fighter on most lists, so even if you have him over Linares at that weight, that doesn’t diminish Linares’s pedigree. Other good points brought up was Loma beating Gary Russel jr., who looks better and better with each fight. Walters didn’t just beat Vic and Donaire, he destroyed those guys. Loma didn’t just beat Walters, he humiliated him and made him quit.

To your points about Horn, Postol, and Gamboa being better wins: Gamboa was undefeated but coming off a year lay off and smaller, Postol made his name off matthyse who has turned out to be a limited, crude puncher, and Horn got a gift decision/robbery against a past his prime Manny. This is all subjective in how we look at certain wins/losses so not saying you are wrong and I’m right. Just saying that I personally think Loma has faced tougher comp and should be ranked higher than Bud right now.

[powerpuncher]

Regardless of how you personally feel about ranking Linares 1 or 2, the guy was a solid champ and tough fight. Mikey is a p4p fighter on most lists, so even if you have him over Linares at that weight, that doesn’t diminish Linares’s pedigree. Other good points brought up was Loma beating Gary Russel jr., who looks better and better with each fight. Walters didn’t just beat Vic and Donaire, he destroyed those guys. Loma didn’t just beat Walters, he humiliated him and made him quit.

To your points about Horn, Postol, and Gamboa being better wins: Gamboa was undefeated but coming off a year lay off and smaller, Postol made his name off matthyse who has turned out to be a limited, crude puncher, and Horn got a gift decision/robbery against a past his prime Manny. This is all subjective in how we look at certain wins/losses so not saying you are wrong and I’m right. Just saying that I personally think Loma has faced tougher comp and should be ranked higher than Bud right now.

I think it’s about the gap in the competition. I don’t think there’s much of a gap, therefore, Crawford takes the spot over Loma. If I thought that Loma’s Competition was that much better than Crawford’s then I would put Loma over him. It’s just hard to believe that people think that Loma’s resume is head and shoulders above Crawford’s.

[mikeeod]

Regardless of how you personally feel about ranking Linares 1 or 2, the guy was a solid champ and tough fight. Mikey is a p4p fighter on most lists, so even if you have him over Linares at that weight, that doesn’t diminish Linares’s pedigree. Other good points brought up was Loma beating Gary Russel jr., who looks better and better with each fight. Walters didn’t just beat Vic and Donaire, he destroyed those guys. Loma didn’t just beat Walters, he humiliated him and made him quit.

To your points about Horn, Postol, and Gamboa being better wins: Gamboa was undefeated but coming off a year lay off and smaller, Postol made his name off matthyse who has turned out to be a limited, crude puncher, and Horn got a gift decision/robbery against a past his prime Manny. This is all subjective in how we look at certain wins/losses so not saying you are wrong and I’m right. Just saying that I personally think Loma has faced tougher comp and should be ranked higher than Bud right now.

I think it’s about the gap in the competition. I don’t think there’s much of a gap, therefore, Crawford takes the spot over Loma. If I thought that Loma’s Competition was that much better than Crawford’s then I would put Loma over him. It’s just hard to believe that people think that Loma’s resume is head and shoulders above Crawford’s.

Hard for me to believe people think there isn’t a gap. Guess that is why it is subjective. We will have o agree to disagree.

[Alpha]

Regardless of how you personally feel about ranking Linares 1 or 2, the guy was a solid champ and tough fight. Mikey is a p4p fighter on most lists, so even if you have him over Linares at that weight, that doesn’t diminish Linares’s pedigree. Other good points brought up was Loma beating Gary Russel jr., who looks better and better with each fight. Walters didn’t just beat Vic and Donaire, he destroyed those guys. Loma didn’t just beat Walters, he humiliated him and made him quit.

To your points about Horn, Postol, and Gamboa being better wins: Gamboa was undefeated but coming off a year lay off and smaller, Postol made his name off matthyse who has turned out to be a limited, crude puncher, and Horn got a gift decision/robbery against a past his prime Manny. This is all subjective in how we look at certain wins/losses so not saying you are wrong and I’m right. Just saying that I personally think Loma has faced tougher comp and should be ranked higher than Bud right now.

I think the point that was originally brought up was that most of these guys records are on par and missing an elite win.

I don't think I said those wins were better, just that they were on par with what Loma has done.

You can do the same for Loma's record, I have stated that I feel Russell Jr is Loma's best win, as have others. But what had he done when Loma fought him? His record was padded to the max. Fenster likes to use HOF, but Linares is a push, and if Rigo ever gets in it won't be for anything he did at 130, where Loma fought him. I would consider the Walters and Postol wins to be very similar.

Crawford has been recognized as lineal champ in 2 divisions, now you can sh-t on the divisions all you like, but if it was so easy to do, why don't we have more fighters recognized as lineal champs?

I don't even have Crawford or Loma at #1 P4P, the point I'm trying to make is that Loma's record is far from superior over the likes of Usyk, Inoue, Mikey, Crawford, Wangek, Canelo and GGG, based on the opposition they have faced. And lets remember that Loma, whatever the circumstances involving the fight, the fact remains Loma lost to Salido.

I asked for what people considered Loma's 3 best wins, even top 5, so we can do a proper comparison.

[mikeeod]

Regardless of how you personally feel about ranking Linares 1 or 2, the guy was a solid champ and tough fight. Mikey is a p4p fighter on most lists, so even if you have him over Linares at that weight, that doesn’t diminish Linares’s pedigree. Other good points brought up was Loma beating Gary Russel jr., who looks better and better with each fight. Walters didn’t just beat Vic and Donaire, he destroyed those guys. Loma didn’t just beat Walters, he humiliated him and made him quit.

To your points about Horn, Postol, and Gamboa being better wins: Gamboa was undefeated but coming off a year lay off and smaller, Postol made his name off matthyse who has turned out to be a limited, crude puncher, and Horn got a gift decision/robbery against a past his prime Manny. This is all subjective in how we look at certain wins/losses so not saying you are wrong and I’m right. Just saying that I personally think Loma has faced tougher comp and should be ranked higher than Bud right now.

I think the point that was originally brought up was that most of these guys records are on par and missing an elite win.

I don't think I said those wins were better, just that they were on par with what Loma has done.

You can do the same for Loma's record, I have stated that I feel Russell Jr is Loma's best win, as have others. But what had he done when Loma fought him? His record was padded to the max. Fenster likes to use HOF, but Linares is a push, and if Rigo ever gets in it won't be for anything he did at 130, where Loma fought him. I would consider the Walters and Postol wins to be very similar.

Crawford has been recognized as lineal champ in 2 divisions, now you can sh-t on the divisions all you like, but if it was so easy to do, why don't we have more fighters recognized as lineal champs?

I don't even have Crawford or Loma at #1 P4P, the point I'm trying to make is that Loma's record is far from superior over the likes of Usyk, Inoue, Mikey, Crawford, Wangek, Canelo and GGG, based on the opposition they have faced. And lets remember that Loma, whatever the circumstances involving the fight, the fact remains Loma lost to Salido.

I asked for what people considered Loma's 3 best wins, even top 5, so we can do a proper comparison.

Lomas top wins (in my opinion) are: 1. Gary Russel jr., 2. Linares, 3. Nicholas Walters, 4. Rigondeaux, and 5. Roman Martinez. I don’t see Crawford’s big wins on par with those guys and Crawford has almost 3 times as many fights. I like to hear the different point of view (when articulated logically like you do), so don’t want to cut this short, but will say we are splitting hairs to a degree since I think we both agree they are p4p guys. All subjective and no matter what, not much separating them.