Cruise ships

[TitoFan]

Cruise ships are nice to sail on.... but are also the epitome of arrogant and blase irresponsibility toward the environment and humans affected by this environment. Case in point, yet another waste spill incident, this time off the Great Barrier Reef in Australia. That's not to mention the incidents that probably go hush-hush in the high seas.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...id=mailsignout


Yes.... cruise ships provide a lot of business and tourism to a great many places, both in the Caribbean and elsewhere. But geez.... these companies make money hand over fist. You'd think they'd be a little more responsible and totally avoid this type of bullshit.


I have an idea, though it probably wouldn't go over very well with the cruise industry. Rather than fine these people, how about we take the offending ship..... empty it of all hazardous materials..... tow it out to an area where new reefs are needed..... and sink the sonofabitch to provide a starter for new reef and a home for marine life. All at the cruise ship company's expense. One or two ships going down like that would probably result in the cruise ship industry becoming the greenest industry on the face of the planet.

[Master]

I would love to go on a cruise one day. They are very expensive and but well worth it if you get the right place in the world.

[Mark TKO]

I did a caribbean one a few years ago - was like Butlins at Sea.

The food was good mind and the casino

If I did another it would be on a smaller ship

[X]

I hate them.

They are gargantuan, obese, vulgar monstrosities which cost billions to build and millions to run. They are environmentally filthy and have led to vast swathes of coral reefs on endangered islands being hacked out so these behemoths can get to the ferry docks.

Most are fitted out like some childish Disneyworld ..... "oh, look, it has an authentic English pub on board" - NO IT FUCKING HASN'T. It has a parachute free fall on it - WHY, for fuck's sake? Horrible infantising bullshit, bland meaningless banality to entertain brain dead consumers. Present company excepted, of course

"Its a good way to see the world" ..... no, it's not. Disgorging thousands of ignorant tourists onto a small economy, just for a few hours at a time, means they only ever venture a few miles onshore, where the local economy is ridiculously skewed to serve cruise ship tourists. They drive prices up in a five mile radius of the port and lead to ghost towns being created elsewhere. Poor locals become dependant of the dregs of their largesse until the cruise ship company can tell them they won't be paying port fees anymore (abusing their power just like supermarkets)

They lead to horrific things like dolphin petting zoos springing up. They hardly benefit the local economy anyway, as most passengers money goes straight to the cruise company and only a tiny proportion to the country they dock at. Cruise ship tourists never ever see any real culture or country whatsoever.

They use maritime legal loopholes to exploit cheap Filipino and other labour. The conditions the crews are employed under is shocking, but nobody really gives a fuck because they have a big water slide, a Bubba Gump's and an ice skating rink.

[Beanz]

Well said. The one saving grace is the possibility of Walrus and Miles pretending to fly at the front and then falling overboard only to be battered by angry dolphins and then eaten by sharks.

[TitoFan]

I hate them.

They are gargantuan, obese, vulgar monstrosities which cost billions to build and millions to run. They are environmentally filthy and have led to vast swathes of coral reefs on endangered islands being hacked out so these behemoths can get to the ferry docks.

Most are fitted out like some childish Disneyworld ..... "oh, look, it has an authentic English pub on board" - NO IT FUCKING HASN'T. It has a parachute free fall on it - WHY, for fuck's sake? Horrible infantising bullshit, bland meaningless banality to entertain brain dead consumers. Present company excepted, of course

"Its a good way to see the world" ..... no, it's not. Disgorging thousands of ignorant tourists onto a small economy, just for a few hours at a time, means they only ever venture a few miles onshore, where the local economy is ridiculously skewed to serve cruise ship tourists. They drive prices up in a five mile radius of the port and lead to ghost towns being created elsewhere. Poor locals become dependant of the dregs of their largesse until the cruise ship company can tell them they won't be paying port fees anymore (abusing their power just like supermarkets)

They lead to horrific things like dolphin petting zoos springing up. They hardly benefit the local economy anyway, as most passengers money goes straight to the cruise company and only a tiny proportion to the country they dock at. Cruise ship tourists never ever see any real culture or country whatsoever.

They use maritime legal loopholes to exploit cheap Filipino and other labour. The conditions the crews are employed under is shocking, but nobody really gives a fuck because they have a big water slide, a Bubba Gump's and an ice skating rink.

Okaaaay....... Note to Self: Cross off Royal Caribbean marketing director from X's list of possible occupations.

[Gandalf]

Good post X. Made me think twice and so I won't go on one. Plus everyone knows I won't spend money on a room.

Oh, and thanks Beanz. That SEEMED like humour. Maybe on the way to that truce then.

[Master]

On the back of the post from X, I too will never set foot on a cruise.

Plus they are way too expensive.

[walrus]

I’d like to go on a riverboat cruise. Tbh I never even considered the environmental impact of them.

[TitoFan]

On the back of the post from X, I too will never set foot on a cruise.

Plus they are way too expensive.

TBH, there's some good to balance the bad. Having been on a few, I can personally vouch for the benefits they bring to some of the smaller Caribbean islands dotting the region. Places like St. Maarten, Dominica, Grenada, St. Lucia..... some of these would be ridiculously impoverished were it not for the cruise ship and tourism industry. That the benefits are skewed toward the ports of call...... sure. But these are small islands. Many people travel the few miles needed to get jobs at stores and other businesses that cater to these tourists. That the ships are there for a few hours a week..... sure. The natives are used to that, and prepare accordingly. I can personally attest to many beautiful upgrades made in some of these islands. St. Maarten, for instance, spent all kinds of money dredging and renovating their docks to accommodate the big ships, which used to have to dock offshore and send little ferries with the passengers who wanted to disembark.

Employment is what it is. If you sign up to work on a cruise ship, you know what you're getting into. BTW, there's scores of nationalities working on these ships..... not just Filipinos. Many countries in the world are usually represented. Mostly young people who crave the adventure of being on a cruise ship as their job, for months at a time. Not for everyone, but again..... you know what you're getting into.

Same thing with the ship's decor. It is what it is. Anyone stupid enough to think they're getting an authentic anything on a ship probably should be left to his/her fantasy. Regardless, much money is spent on luxuries, to pamper passengers. I see nothing wrong with that, especially after you've spent some hard-earned money to sail on one.

On positive notes, cruise ships offer quality food, high-class shows, plenty of entertainment of just about any kind, and all sorts of other amenities. It can be whatever you want it to be. If you want to sit on your ass for 7 days (or however long the cruise is) sipping piña coladas next to the pool..... you do just that. If you want to get off at every port of call and bounce around to your heart's content.... you can do that also.

I will agree with X on a couple of things. Like I said on the OP, I think it's shameful they're not more considerate of the environment. It seems they have to operate under the threat of the law, and probably do what they can get away with, as often as they can get away with it. The other thing I'll agree with is the fallacy that tourists are seeing and experiencing other cultures when they pour off the ship. That is..... yes..... laughable. I live in Puerto Rico. Some cruise ships depart from here..... others stop here as one of the ports of call. They all come and go from the San Juan area. Maybe 99.9% of the tourists that disembark here walk around Old San Juan for awhile..... take in a few sights..... eat some Puerto Rican food..... maybe take a quick tour..... and declare they've seen Puerto Rico and know what Puerto Rico's all about. Right. Sort of like me flying into JFK as a stopover to another country and declaring I know all about the States.

Bottom line @Master .... if you feel you would enjoy a cruise, by all means go on one. It's a wonderful vacation.... and well worth it most of the time.

I’d like to go on a riverboat cruise. Tbh I never even considered the environmental impact of them.

I've never been on one of those, but I'd have to think they're more environment-friendly than their ocean-going counterparts.

[Dark Lord Al]

I did a caribbean one a few years ago - was like Butlins at Sea.

The food was good mind and the casino

If I did another it would be on a smaller ship

Butlins at sea ? I think you need to review who you cruise with.
Which line did you choose Mark ?

For the record I have been on lots of cruises and love them.

[X]

Don't let the fact that I hate them, everything they stand for, everything they do, their economic set up, their environmental impact, and everything about them them put anybody off

I even dislike Tom Cruise just because he is named Cruise ......

I wouldn't disagree with some of Tito's post either.

It is definitely true that they bring some prosperity to places like small Caribbean islands, no question about it. I do wonder whether greater prosperity could be achievable through other means of tourism though. All the shops and bars are open when the cruise ships dock in Cozumel, but simply shut when they are not in port. If more people visited - and stayed - on Cozumel instead, then the local economy would get far more money.

I would probably challenge the definition of 'upgrades' though, Tito. Just as an example, the Jamaican government recently made such 'improvements' around Falmouth recently. At the request of cruise ship companies, they carried out dredging works which killed off entire coral reefs. Those things took millions of years to grow and are the habitat to exactly the sea life that so many people visit Jamaica for. Except for cruise ship tourists, of course. All the ferryman who used to bring the tourists ashore have lost their jobs. That has generated some wealth but I fear it is short term thinking

Even legally moored cruise ships cause irreparable damage to the reefs around these places. Look at the Cayman Islands. Huge degradation caused by anchors just scouring the sea bed and poison from fuel leaks and waste ejection. It will take tens of thousands of years for those endangered habitats to grow back. No more coral reefs = worldwide starvation, climate change, atmospheric change etc etc.

Nothing is ever completely evil or wrong, except Jade Goody, so I would never moralise or tell anybody they should not go on cruises. My brother loves them and has been on a few, albeit he is a crazy fool - in the immortal words of the wise sage, BA Baracus.

I also take your point about people knowing what they are getting into when they go to work on a cruise ship. That's very true, and it is a good way for many people to earn a living. A good friend of mine would work on a Carnival cruise ship - he had a great time and only had to work 9 months of the year to live well indeed. That's not to say that there is a lot wrong with their 'offshore' and 'international maritime' labour laws and the way the crew are treated. People earn a lot working in diamond mines and oilfields too, but it's not a job for everyone.

As I say, if anyone wants to go on a cruise, have a great time and enjoy it, but do so with your eyes open.

[TitoFan]

Yeah, I get you X. Seeing half a dozen cruise ships crowded into the St. Thomas docks looks nice and all that.... but you can't help that sneaky feeling that if something dumps out "accidentally" you'll never know which ship is responsible.

I know you're a diver (so am I), and are particularly sensitive to the plight of coral reefs, as well you should be. Puerto Rico's own coral reefs have seen significant decline over the years for whatever reason we want to assign to it. Forces of nature, or man-made. My dad was an avid diver, as are my brothers and I, and I remember many a wonderful time diving among the reefs, usually looking for something to spearfish.

I think cruising is doable in a green way... if only these greedy corporations would concentrate in putting back as much or more than they take away. Unfortunately where there's billions to be made, everything else gets kicked to the curb. I think the St. Maarten (or St. Martin, depending on who's saying it) upgrade was well needed, though. Having a huge ship travel hundreds of miles to get there..... only to have to anchor off shore and sent tenders to offload passengers.... seemed like such a waste of time. The ship's already there, so it's not like the environment isn't feeling the impact already. But it's like anything else. If the local government of whichever island or port of call... proceeds with upgrades carelessly and only looking at the bottom line.... it's wrong. That's where the cruise lines should take responsibility and say "You know what? We'd like you to upgrade your docking facilities... but we need to make sure you do so in an environmentally responsible manner. We'd like to be involved in your permitting and construction process, if only as an oversight to make sure things are done right." That would give these cruise companies major points. And they've got the clout.

The wife and I love cruising... although as you say it's no way to truly explore and get to know other cultures. For trips to Europe, for instance, I would definitely eschew Mediterranean cruises in favor of traveling by land from country to country.

[Master]

You have changed my mind Tito, I am saving for a cruise, it may take many years but am going to do one to the north or south pole.

[TitoFan]

You have changed my mind Tito, I am saving for a cruise, it may take many years but am going to do one to the north or south pole.

They say Alaskan cruises are well worth it. I've never been, but friends of mine have. In Europe you have the Mediterranean cruises and apparently some good river cruises in the Nordic region. Then there's the Caribbean cruises which I've always taken. Great relaxation value and plenty of water sports and new things to see and experience. (Plus some mean local drinks as well). Of course, you have to put up with the occasional "let-it-all-hang-out" bikinis by the poolside..... but for those it's always a good idea to have a good pair of wraparound sunglasses.