Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)

[TitoFan]

I was just thinking, Canelo can now take as much risk as he wants because he is locked in to a contract while making a ton of money. He can lose his next ten fights and he will still make his money. That’s the best situation a fighter can be in. He can take all the risk without having to risk his money.

I'm pretty certain the contract doesn't quite work like that, it's based on performance and ratings. So he can't fight 10 Rocky Fieldings to steal the money, because obviously the big names like Jacobs bring in the subscribers, and at the same time if he suffers a bunch of bad losses his drawing power disappears. It's worth hundreds of millions but not guaranteed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianma.../#6aebffde24ad



I don't get much into the contract side of boxing, but from it says here it would appear Canelo's minimum is guaranteed, regardless of opposition.

(from the article)
"Per a DAZN representative that I spoke to, the deal is worth a minimum of $365 million. Traditionally, Alvarez would be able to earn above and beyond his minimum purses based on pay-per-view buys and a percentage of the live gate from his fights. In this deal without a pay-per-view model, Alvarez will have other opportunities to earn above the base. There are escalators, but terms of those incentives were specified."


He can earn above that based on PPV and live gate numbers. Also, I don't think with Canelo you need "big names like Jacobs" to bring in subscribers. That assumption would apply to anyone else in boxing, but not Canelo. Canelo could literally fight Joe Blow dragged from the corner bar, and still bring in his own legion of loyal subscribers. Maybe if he did that like 5 or 6 times in a row, his fan base could foreseeably get a little restless..... but it's known fact that NOBODY in boxing gets as much slack as Canelo.

[Fenster]

I was just thinking, Canelo can now take as much risk as he wants because he is locked in to a contract while making a ton of money. He can lose his next ten fights and he will still make his money. That’s the best situation a fighter can be in. He can take all the risk without having to risk his money.

I'm pretty certain the contract doesn't quite work like that, it's based on performance and ratings. So he can't fight 10 Rocky Fieldings to steal the money, because obviously the big names like Jacobs bring in the subscribers, and at the same time if he suffers a bunch of bad losses his drawing power disappears. It's worth hundreds of millions but not guaranteed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianma.../#6aebffde24ad



I don't get much into the contract side of boxing, but from it says here it would appear Canelo's minimum is guaranteed, regardless of opposition.

(from the article)
"Per a DAZN representative that I spoke to, the deal is worth a minimum of $365 million. Traditionally, Alvarez would be able to earn above and beyond his minimum purses based on pay-per-view buys and a percentage of the live gate from his fights. In this deal without a pay-per-view model, Alvarez will have other opportunities to earn above the base. There are escalators, but terms of those incentives were specified."


He can earn above that based on PPV and live gate numbers. Also, I don't think with Canelo you need "big names like Jacobs" to bring in subscribers. That assumption would apply to anyone else in boxing, but not Canelo. Canelo could literally fight Joe Blow dragged from the corner bar, and still bring in his own legion of loyal subscribers. Maybe if he did that like 5 or 6 times in a row, his fan base could foreseeably get a little restless..... but it's known fact that NOBODY in boxing gets as much slack as Canelo.

Yeah that's what I said about Canelo's deal. However, he doesn't have PPV anymore, that's the whole point, but he still needs to generate huge ratings (subscribers) to beat his minimum purse ($33 million).

He'll be making a lot more for Jacobs than Fielding, like he made a lot more against Golovkin ($50 million+) than Liam Smith (both HBO PPV).

Nobody in the history of boxing can suffer bad losses yet maintain their stardom/ratings. Just look at the current Manny Pac? The PPV with Broner is estimated as a success with 400,000 buys, he used to consistently do a million.

[Fenster]

Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.

If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour

[Kirkland Laing]

Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.

If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour

This is correct. There's no way that money can be guaranteed in boxing. Promoters are not franchises like the Yankees with 81 guaranteed home games a year and guaranteed TV contracts. It's as guaranteed as Eddie Hearn's billion. If the numbers don't get made then there'll be escape clauses in the contracts. DAZN might not even exist in a couple of years.

[powerpuncher]

Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.

If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour

This is correct. There's no way that money can be guaranteed in boxing. Promoters are not franchises like the Yankees with 81 guaranteed home games a year and guaranteed TV contracts. It's as guaranteed as Eddie Hearn's billion. If the numbers don't get made then there'll be escape clauses in the contracts. DAZN might not even exist in a couple of years.

Obviously if you can’t honor your contract (by injury for example), then you won’t get paid. I’m also sure that DAZN does have some say in who Canelo fights. I can’t imagine that DAZN made a contract with Canelo allowing him to fight bums.

As titofan pointed out though, if he does honor his contract, meaning that he fights who GBP and DAZN agree upon, I don’t see anything that says that if he keeps on losing that he goes below his minimum contract price. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would have to see where it says that he can make less from losing fights.

So my original point was that losing to Jacobs doesn’t affect his future earnings like it would for other fighters.

[Kirkland Laing]

Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.

If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour

This is correct. There's no way that money can be guaranteed in boxing. Promoters are not franchises like the Yankees with 81 guaranteed home games a year and guaranteed TV contracts. It's as guaranteed as Eddie Hearn's billion. If the numbers don't get made then there'll be escape clauses in the contracts. DAZN might not even exist in a couple of years.

Obviously if you can’t honor your contract (by injury for example), then you won’t get paid. I’m also sure that DAZN does have some say in who Canelo fights. I can’t imagine that DAZN made a contract with Canelo allowing him to fight bums.

As titofan pointed out though, if he does honor his contract, meaning that he fights who GBP and DAZN agree upon, I don’t see anything that says that if he keeps on losing that he goes below his minimum contract price. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would have to see where it says that he can make less from losing fights.

So my original point was that losing to Jacobs doesn’t affect his future earnings like it would for other fighters.

He'll have to win as well. Or at least remain an attraction. If he's not selling streaming subscriptions he's not going to get paid. The entire payment thing is predicated on him making DAZN a profit. They're not doing this in order to hand him hundreds of millions of dollars, they're doing it to make money. If the money isn't coming in there'll be endless escape clauses for them to end the deal, same as with Hearn and his billion dollar deal.

[powerpuncher]

Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.

If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour

This is correct. There's no way that money can be guaranteed in boxing. Promoters are not franchises like the Yankees with 81 guaranteed home games a year and guaranteed TV contracts. It's as guaranteed as Eddie Hearn's billion. If the numbers don't get made then there'll be escape clauses in the contracts. DAZN might not even exist in a couple of years.

Obviously if you can’t honor your contract (by injury for example), then you won’t get paid. I’m also sure that DAZN does have some say in who Canelo fights. I can’t imagine that DAZN made a contract with Canelo allowing him to fight bums.

As titofan pointed out though, if he does honor his contract, meaning that he fights who GBP and DAZN agree upon, I don’t see anything that says that if he keeps on losing that he goes below his minimum contract price. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would have to see where it says that he can make less from losing fights.

So my original point was that losing to Jacobs doesn’t affect his future earnings like it would for other fighters.

He'll have to win as well. Or at least remain an attraction. If he's not selling streaming subscriptions he's not going to get paid. The entire payment thing is predicated on him making DAZN a profit. They're not doing this in order to hand him hundreds of millions of dollars, they're doing it to make money. If the money isn't coming in there'll be endless escape clauses for them to end the deal, same as with Hearn and his billion dollar deal.

Is that in the contract though? Like the amount of losses? Because that is the point of signing a contract. DAZN is hoping to make a huge profit off of Canelo and squeeze him for as much as he’s worth while Canelo is trying to get guaranteed money. Otherwise, what is a contract for if he loses to Jacobs and they just say “sorry, you lost and now we won’t honor your contract?”

A contract is signed and with that comes the risk that the person who signed the contract doesn’t make the money you hoped. Again, if someone can find me the part of the contract that gives DAZN an out of Canelo loses then I’ll believe you. Otherwise, I’ll assume it’s guaranteed.

[TitoFan]

I was just thinking, Canelo can now take as much risk as he wants because he is locked in to a contract while making a ton of money. He can lose his next ten fights and he will still make his money. That’s the best situation a fighter can be in. He can take all the risk without having to risk his money.

I'm pretty certain the contract doesn't quite work like that, it's based on performance and ratings. So he can't fight 10 Rocky Fieldings to steal the money, because obviously the big names like Jacobs bring in the subscribers, and at the same time if he suffers a bunch of bad losses his drawing power disappears. It's worth hundreds of millions but not guaranteed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianma.../#6aebffde24ad



I don't get much into the contract side of boxing, but from it says here it would appear Canelo's minimum is guaranteed, regardless of opposition.

(from the article)
"Per a DAZN representative that I spoke to, the deal is worth a minimum of $365 million. Traditionally, Alvarez would be able to earn above and beyond his minimum purses based on pay-per-view buys and a percentage of the live gate from his fights. In this deal without a pay-per-view model, Alvarez will have other opportunities to earn above the base. There are escalators, but terms of those incentives were specified."


He can earn above that based on PPV and live gate numbers. Also, I don't think with Canelo you need "big names like Jacobs" to bring in subscribers. That assumption would apply to anyone else in boxing, but not Canelo. Canelo could literally fight Joe Blow dragged from the corner bar, and still bring in his own legion of loyal subscribers. Maybe if he did that like 5 or 6 times in a row, his fan base could foreseeably get a little restless..... but it's known fact that NOBODY in boxing gets as much slack as Canelo.

Yeah that's what I said about Canelo's deal. However, he doesn't have PPV anymore, that's the whole point, but he still needs to generate huge ratings (subscribers) to beat his minimum purse ($33 million).

He'll be making a lot more for Jacobs than Fielding, like he made a lot more against Golovkin ($50 million+) than Liam Smith (both HBO PPV).

Nobody in the history of boxing can suffer bad losses yet maintain their stardom/ratings. Just look at the current Manny Pac? The PPV with Broner is estimated as a success with 400,000 buys, he used to consistently do a million.

Personally I'd love to see the details of Canelo's contract. I can see the # of subscribers as being the driving force behind any incentives for him to exceed his base (which regardless is still a pretty good base). After all it does come down to money for both DAZN and Canelo. But I would've liked for there to be incentives based on opponents' rankings and such. I'm pretty sure there aren't any, which of course will allow Canelo a lot more slack than with rankings-based incentives.

In actuality, the fact that Canelo is financially set for life many times over with this contract, actually puts a damper on any incentives Canelo may have to fight top-flight, elite opposition on a consistent basis. Why should he? All we can hope for is the occasional "token prod" from the boxing orgs so that it seems like they're "forcing" him to face the best. Especially the WBC, which will protect Canelo's "legacy" and cash cow status.