Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)

[powerpuncher]

Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.

If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour

This is correct. There's no way that money can be guaranteed in boxing. Promoters are not franchises like the Yankees with 81 guaranteed home games a year and guaranteed TV contracts. It's as guaranteed as Eddie Hearn's billion. If the numbers don't get made then there'll be escape clauses in the contracts. DAZN might not even exist in a couple of years.

Obviously if you can’t honor your contract (by injury for example), then you won’t get paid. I’m also sure that DAZN does have some say in who Canelo fights. I can’t imagine that DAZN made a contract with Canelo allowing him to fight bums.

As titofan pointed out though, if he does honor his contract, meaning that he fights who GBP and DAZN agree upon, I don’t see anything that says that if he keeps on losing that he goes below his minimum contract price. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would have to see where it says that he can make less from losing fights.

So my original point was that losing to Jacobs doesn’t affect his future earnings like it would for other fighters.

He'll have to win as well. Or at least remain an attraction. If he's not selling streaming subscriptions he's not going to get paid. The entire payment thing is predicated on him making DAZN a profit. They're not doing this in order to hand him hundreds of millions of dollars, they're doing it to make money. If the money isn't coming in there'll be endless escape clauses for them to end the deal, same as with Hearn and his billion dollar deal.

Is that in the contract though? Like the amount of losses? Because that is the point of signing a contract. DAZN is hoping to make a huge profit off of Canelo and squeeze him for as much as he’s worth while Canelo is trying to get guaranteed money. Otherwise, what is a contract for if he loses to Jacobs and they just say “sorry, you lost and now we won’t honor your contract?”

A contract is signed and with that comes the risk that the person who signed the contract doesn’t make the money you hoped. Again, if someone can find me the part of the contract that gives DAZN an out of Canelo loses then I’ll believe you. Otherwise, I’ll assume it’s guaranteed.

[p4pking]

I tried digging around for information on his contract a while back when it was announced, couldn’t find any details on how it was actually going to work, doesn’t seem like anyone knows for sure. As far as I know the concept of signing a boxer to a guaranteed long term contract is unprecedented? It can go south in any sport if the athlete gets injured, let alone boxing, so DAZN must have outs if something were to happen, or if they simply go under. Its got to be a fairly risky business model they have to begin with. Most likely it’s a ballpark amount saying that Canelo cant fight for anyone else as long as he makes them money. You can bet they have almost complete control over who he fights as well.

[powerpuncher]

I tried digging around for information on his contract a while back when it was announced, couldn’t find any details on how it was actually going to work, doesn’t seem like anyone knows for sure. As far as I know the concept of signing a boxer to a guaranteed long term contract is unprecedented? It can go south in any sport if the athlete gets injured, let alone boxing, so DAZN must have outs if something were to happen, or if they simply go under. Its got to be a fairly risky business model they have to begin with. Most likely it’s a ballpark amount saying that Canelo cant fight for anyone else as long as he makes them money. You can bet they have almost complete control over who he fights as well.

To guarantee that much money I would be fairly certain that DAZN has a lot of control over what he does. I wouldn’t be surprised if they made him fight Jacobs instead of GGG.

[powerpuncher]

And along what I said, DAZN wouldn’t be stupid and continue putting him in fights that he would just lose. Obviously if he lost they would give him tune up fights which they know the Mexican fans would still watch him. And as long as he still makes exciting fights, most fans of the sport will continue to watch him.

[Beanz]

It's a cracking fight if it happens and I think Canelo just has too much for Jacobs. I don't think Jacobs beat GGG even though he was Golovkins best opponent until Alvarez, but gingernuts is a classy boxer even if he is not a very classy person. He has always had a quality arsenal of punches to draw on and can put his work together very well. Excellent timing and a solid noggin. He lost clearly in the first Golovkin fight and was closer in the second but I think should have lost that narrowly too.

I think Jacobs best chance is to make it physical early. Get in close, tie him up and then start putting real pressure on as Canelo tires. Canelo's conditioning is not terrible but if Jacobs can up the pace in the second half he might just catch him.

[Kirkland Laing]

Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.

If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour

This is correct. There's no way that money can be guaranteed in boxing. Promoters are not franchises like the Yankees with 81 guaranteed home games a year and guaranteed TV contracts. It's as guaranteed as Eddie Hearn's billion. If the numbers don't get made then there'll be escape clauses in the contracts. DAZN might not even exist in a couple of years.

Obviously if you can’t honor your contract (by injury for example), then you won’t get paid. I’m also sure that DAZN does have some say in who Canelo fights. I can’t imagine that DAZN made a contract with Canelo allowing him to fight bums.

As titofan pointed out though, if he does honor his contract, meaning that he fights who GBP and DAZN agree upon, I don’t see anything that says that if he keeps on losing that he goes below his minimum contract price. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would have to see where it says that he can make less from losing fights.

So my original point was that losing to Jacobs doesn’t affect his future earnings like it would for other fighters.

He'll have to win as well. Or at least remain an attraction. If he's not selling streaming subscriptions he's not going to get paid. The entire payment thing is predicated on him making DAZN a profit. They're not doing this in order to hand him hundreds of millions of dollars, they're doing it to make money. If the money isn't coming in there'll be endless escape clauses for them to end the deal, same as with Hearn and his billion dollar deal.

Is that in the contract though? Like the amount of losses? Because that is the point of signing a contract. DAZN is hoping to make a huge profit off of Canelo and squeeze him for as much as he’s worth while Canelo is trying to get guaranteed money. Otherwise, what is a contract for if he loses to Jacobs and they just say “sorry, you lost and now we won’t honor your contract?”

A contract is signed and with that comes the risk that the person who signed the contract doesn’t make the money you hoped. Again, if someone can find me the part of the contract that gives DAZN an out of Canelo loses then I’ll believe you. Otherwise, I’ll assume it’s guaranteed.

I can guarantee you it's not guaranteed. NFL players' contracts aren't even guaranteed. And they're contracts with franchises who have guaranteed predictable income streams for years ahead. Baseball players have guaranteed money because of strikes and stoppages over the years. But even then their union had an actual organisation to negotiate with run by a commissioner. Professional boxing is just a bunch of dodgy businessmen who can't agree on anything, never mind forming some kind of umbrella organisation that a nonexistent boxers' union could negotiate with.

At the end of the day pro boxing is a bunch of guys putting their own money up to finance various fights which may or may not result in a profit for the promoter. It in no way resembles any kind of organised league or collective or whatever. Boxing contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on by and large. The people paying the money have endless escape clauses built into them because they can't guarantee anything for any length of time. A promoter is not like the Red Sox or the Lakers where they have a known fanbase, TV contracts for years ahead, a waiting list for season tickets at their stadiums and so on to the point where they can closely predict their revenue for years to come. Promoters and especially TV/media companies don't have guaranteed revenue streams in the same way, especially at the dawn of the streaming age with pirates able to steal streams and resell them via iptv subscriptions etc. Nobody can predict whether they'll even be there in a couple of years. Even Alvarez who is the closest thing in boxing right now to a sure thing can't be sure he's going to be able to fight again ever. He could fail a brain scan, suffer an career ending injury in training and so on. You'd be crazy to guarantee him hundreds of millions of dollars when his situation is so ephemeral.

[powerpuncher]

I already brought up the point as you said though that if Canelo can’t fight then he would be out of the contract. Just like the NBA gives guaranteed contracts, if someone medically retires, they lose the rest of their contract. So if Canelo medically can’t fight, he wouldn’t be able to hold up his end of the deal therefore he out of the contract.

NFL contracts aren’t fully guaranteed for the most part because of the high risk of injury. They generally only partially guarantee contracts. They are very clear on partially guaranteed contracts.

Absolutely nothing I find says that Canelo’s contract is only partially guaranteed. Again, obviously if he can’t fulfill his part of the contract, he wouldn’t get all of the money, but if he could fight all 11 fights in the agreed upon time frame, as far as we know, they owe him the money despite winning or losing.

Coming back to my original point, he can take more risks because he is now guaranteed money. DAZN would also want him to fight the best because it would get them more subscribers. I think they put in the risk because he is so popular and good enough to make interesting and entertaining fights. If he loses to Jacobs, they can put him in against GGG again and tons of people would still watch it. If he lost against both of them, they could put him in against someone like Lemieux which would make for an exciting fight that Canelo is for sure going to win. All around, people will watch his fights no matter what basically.

[p4pking]

I cancelled my DAZN subscription as soon as I realized he wasn’t going to give rocky fielding a rematch.

[Kirkland Laing]

I already brought up the point as you said though that if Canelo can’t fight then he would be out of the contract. Just like the NBA gives guaranteed contracts, if someone medically retires, they lose the rest of their contract. So if Canelo medically can’t fight, he wouldn’t be able to hold up his end of the deal therefore he out of the contract.

NFL contracts aren’t fully guaranteed for the most part because of the high risk of injury. They generally only partially guarantee contracts. They are very clear on partially guaranteed contracts.

Absolutely nothing I find says that Canelo’s contract is only partially guaranteed. Again, obviously if he can’t fulfill his part of the contract, he wouldn’t get all of the money, but if he could fight all 11 fights in the agreed upon time frame, as far as we know, they owe him the money despite winning or losing.

Coming back to my original point, he can take more risks because he is now guaranteed money. DAZN would also want him to fight the best because it would get them more subscribers. I think they put in the risk because he is so popular and good enough to make interesting and entertaining fights. If he loses to Jacobs, they can put him in against GGG again and tons of people would still watch it. If he lost against both of them, they could put him in against someone like Lemieux which would make for an exciting fight that Canelo is for sure going to win. All around, people will watch his fights no matter what basically.

Guaranteed money means that if you have to retire for medical reasons you're guaranteed the money the counterparty was obligated to pay you in your contract. So if Alvarez' contract is guaranteed and he fails a brain scan before his next fight DAZN would have to pay him the full value of his contract even though he hasn't had one fight under it.

NFL contracts are not guaranteed. Some outstanding players can get a lump of up front money but the vast majority of players have nothing guaranteed.

[powerpuncher]

I already brought up the point as you said though that if Canelo can’t fight then he would be out of the contract. Just like the NBA gives guaranteed contracts, if someone medically retires, they lose the rest of their contract. So if Canelo medically can’t fight, he wouldn’t be able to hold up his end of the deal therefore he out of the contract.

NFL contracts aren’t fully guaranteed for the most part because of the high risk of injury. They generally only partially guarantee contracts. They are very clear on partially guaranteed contracts.

Absolutely nothing I find says that Canelo’s contract is only partially guaranteed. Again, obviously if he can’t fulfill his part of the contract, he wouldn’t get all of the money, but if he could fight all 11 fights in the agreed upon time frame, as far as we know, they owe him the money despite winning or losing.

Coming back to my original point, he can take more risks because he is now guaranteed money. DAZN would also want him to fight the best because it would get them more subscribers. I think they put in the risk because he is so popular and good enough to make interesting and entertaining fights. If he loses to Jacobs, they can put him in against GGG again and tons of people would still watch it. If he lost against both of them, they could put him in against someone like Lemieux which would make for an exciting fight that Canelo is for sure going to win. All around, people will watch his fights no matter what basically.

Guaranteed money means that if you have to retire for medical reasons you're guaranteed the money the counterparty was obligated to pay you in your contract. So if Alvarez' contract is guaranteed and he fails a brain scan before his next fight DAZN would have to pay him the full value of his contract even though he hasn't had one fight under it.

NFL contracts are not guaranteed. Some outstanding players can get a lump of up front money but the vast majority of players have nothing guaranteed.

Not true. Guaranteed means that you get the money as long you honor your contract. So the contract is a five year, eleven fight deal. That’s what he is getting paid for. If Canelo can’t fulfill that, he doesn’t get paid. Unlike other sport leagues like the NBA to where you can sit on the bench and be injured but still get paid because you technically aren’t retired But once you officially retire, you don’t get the rest of your money. They don’t sign contracts saying you get paid per game you play in. You get signed per season and the contract doesn’t state that you have to play to get paid.

[Kirkland Laing]

I already brought up the point as you said though that if Canelo can’t fight then he would be out of the contract. Just like the NBA gives guaranteed contracts, if someone medically retires, they lose the rest of their contract. So if Canelo medically can’t fight, he wouldn’t be able to hold up his end of the deal therefore he out of the contract.

NFL contracts aren’t fully guaranteed for the most part because of the high risk of injury. They generally only partially guarantee contracts. They are very clear on partially guaranteed contracts.

Absolutely nothing I find says that Canelo’s contract is only partially guaranteed. Again, obviously if he can’t fulfill his part of the contract, he wouldn’t get all of the money, but if he could fight all 11 fights in the agreed upon time frame, as far as we know, they owe him the money despite winning or losing.

Coming back to my original point, he can take more risks because he is now guaranteed money. DAZN would also want him to fight the best because it would get them more subscribers. I think they put in the risk because he is so popular and good enough to make interesting and entertaining fights. If he loses to Jacobs, they can put him in against GGG again and tons of people would still watch it. If he lost against both of them, they could put him in against someone like Lemieux which would make for an exciting fight that Canelo is for sure going to win. All around, people will watch his fights no matter what basically.

Guaranteed money means that if you have to retire for medical reasons you're guaranteed the money the counterparty was obligated to pay you in your contract. So if Alvarez' contract is guaranteed and he fails a brain scan before his next fight DAZN would have to pay him the full value of his contract even though he hasn't had one fight under it.

NFL contracts are not guaranteed. Some outstanding players can get a lump of up front money but the vast majority of players have nothing guaranteed.

Not true. Guaranteed means that you get the money as long you honor your contract. So the contract is a five year, eleven fight deal. That’s what he is getting paid for. If Canelo can’t fulfill that, he doesn’t get paid. Unlike other sport leagues like the NBA to where you can sit on the bench and be injured but still get paid because you technically aren’t retired But once you officially retire, you don’t get the rest of your money. They don’t sign contracts saying you get paid per game you play in. You get signed per season and the contract doesn’t state that you have to play to get paid.

You have no idea what you're talking about. There is a wealth of information on the internet of articles written about the history of players' unions interaction with the owners of various sports leagues that you can read that will explain the whole thing in endless detail to you if you really want to learn.