Is the earth flat?

[p4pking]

Alpha is a fucking retard.

[TitoFan]

Alpha, if you're gonna be objective about it, you must notice certain things about how you've carried your argument thus far.


a. You claim your beliefs to be fact, and you deride anyone who doesn't share them, saying we've been bamboozled and stuff like that. That's what most of us object to.

b. You copy/paste the same definitions over and over again, as if by sheer repetition that somehow makes you more right than others.

c. You ask questions and demand answers... and yet when questions are asked of you, you conveniently ignore them and continue parroting your own questions.

d. You right off the cuff dismiss the hundreds of thousands of observations made by 3rd parties, lumping them into some sort of sinister conspiracy theory. Something on a scale that couldn't possibly be pulled off by so many people.

e. You continuously regurgitate the same statements/questions over and over and over again. A good example is the air pressure thing, which I pulverized into the ground and yet you keep parroting the container thing like a broken record. You basically ignored everything I explained to you about the matter.


I'll make a break here, to ask you about air pressure. Exactly what do YOU believe is the continuum or gradient of air pressure as you go up in altitude. Surely you believe instrumentation which measures gauge pressure at any altitude, right? Or are you going to parrot the container wall thing again for the millionth time. This is typical Flat Earther strategy. Refuse to answer questions and continue asking your own questions, as in a trance. On that regard, it's pretty much like any cult.


f. You say things that aren't scientifically based. "Water can curve"..... "waves are motion"..... WTF is that?? Honestly, it's a very simplistic way of talking about water, if you ask me. Sounds like something from a 3rd grade science class.... no offense.

g. You yourself have admitted to not knowing how certain FE claims are supposed to work, like the rotating Sun above the Earth, with no explainable force holding it in its circular pattern. And if you are honest, you'll admit the daylight/nighttime explanation given by FE'ers doesn't wash.



There's more... but you get the idea. Serious question: Are all FE'ers like you that you know of? Or are some actually open to beliefs other than their own? I've always felt that an intelligent human being should be open to changing his/her mind about something if presented with good counter arguments. You can't go around parroting things over and over again and expect an understanding audience.

Finally I'll leave you with this.

A big deal for you is the water. You don't believe in gravity, and yet you continuously attempt to scientifically explain why water settles at its lowest point. You describe the phenomenon, but offer no explanation as to why. Simply stating that water drops to its lowest point isn't an explanation. It's an attempt to sound scientific without offering a real, plausible explanation. Nothing on Earth moves without an acting force. Being a smart guy you know that already. So why do things fall at all? Why does water settle at its lowest point? Why does Earth's atmosphere stay close to the surface, creating that pressure gradient you apparently deny. () Why indeed? Gravity. If there's another force other than gravity, prove it. Let's have YOU doing some of the proving for a change. Like I've said before, the onus is on you to prove the Earth is flat. So far NOTHING you've ever said proves it. Observations of pools of water do nothing to prove it.

And finally....... I only answer questions once. You laughably want me to confirm to you the answer I first gave you regarding two objects dropped at the same time?? Try providing some answers of your own, instead of the constant parroting and regurgitation.

A final thought is that FE Conferences could use guest speakers dealing with the art of arguing. If you're a typical FE'er, you are all so fucking BAD at it.

[Alpha]

Alpha is a fucking retard.

Haha lol, still nothing quantifiable for your religious globe belief dogma. And sending me a rep to consider suicide shows what a piece of shit you are. Projecting much? Have another drink cupcake.

[QUOTE=TitoFan;1513422]Alpha, if you're gonna be objective about it, you must notice certain things about how you've carried your argument thus far.
a. You claim your beliefs to be fact, and you deride anyone who doesn't share them, saying we've been bamboozled and stuff like that. That's what most of us object to.

I have no care at all if anyone agrees with what I know to be true, proven with science. I have always said that others should do their own research and decide for themselves. All I get from others is assertions, but nothing quantifiable or any scientific evidence.

b. You copy/paste the same definitions over and over again, as if by sheer repetition that somehow makes you more right than others.

I repeat the same definitions because they are either being ignored or not understood. Repeating them doesn't it make it right, science and the scientific method makes them right.

c. You ask questions and demand answers... and yet when questions are asked of you, you conveniently ignore them and continue parroting your own questions.

I am only asking questions of the globe claims that we were all taught. I am happy to answer questions, but if it's unfalsifiable, like say the sky where we can't go up there to test, and it doesn't give us anything quantifiable for the ground beneath our feet, then it's irrelevant.

d. You right off the cuff dismiss the hundreds of thousands of observations made by 3rd parties, lumping them into some sort of sinister conspiracy theory. Something on a scale that couldn't possibly be pulled off by so many people.

Just because it's the consensus, doesn't mean it's right. I will dismiss things that are more pseudoscience rather than proven science.

e. You continuously regurgitate the same statements/questions over and over and over again. A good example is the air pressure thing, which I pulverized into the ground and yet you keep parroting the container thing like a broken record. You basically ignored everything I explained to you about the matter.

You didn't pulverize anything. Gandalf is right, you complete disregard facts.

I'll make a break here, to ask you about air pressure. Exactly what do YOU believe is the continuum or gradient of air pressure as you go up in altitude. Surely you believe instrumentation which measures gauge pressure at any altitude, right? Or are you going to parrot the container wall thing again for the millionth time. This is typical Flat Earther strategy. Refuse to answer questions and continue asking your own questions, as in a trance. On that regard, it's pretty much like any cult.

I have explained that differences in atmospheric pressure is based mainly on temperature, but weather also contributes, hot air will rise, cool air will sink, this causes denser gas to be near the surface.

I'm sorry but I will have to repeat some parts here, the claim of the globe is that we have a pressurized gaseous atmosphere. Now the pressure of a gas is the force that the gas exerts on the walls of its container. So the question is how do we have this pressurized atmosphere without a container? Science is the study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. But we can't observe or experiment with this in reality, the first step in the scientific method is also to make an observation. Again, we can't observe a gas pressure being created in reality without a container.

[Alpha]

f. You say things that aren't scientifically based. "Water can curve"..... "waves are motion"..... WTF is that?? Honestly, it's a very simplistic way of talking about water, if you ask me. Sounds like something from a 3rd grade science class.... no offense.

Water has some amazing physical characteristics. It's the only natural chemical substance that can be a liquid, a gas and a solid within earth temperature range I believe. There is actually a heap to study with water. But yes it can curve, hold a balloon to a tap, the water will curve around it. I thought this quote explained my point perfectly though:

“The upper surface of a fluid at rest is a horizontal plane. Because if a part of the surface were higher than the rest, those parts of the fluid which were under it would exert a greater pressure upon the surrounding parts than they receive from them, so that motion would take place amongst the particles and continue until there were none at a higher level than the rest, that is, until the upper surface of the whole mass of fluid became a horizontal plane.” -W.T. Lynn, “First Principles of Natural Philosophy”

g. You yourself have admitted to not knowing how certain FE claims are supposed to work, like the rotating Sun above the Earth, with no explainable force holding it in its circular pattern. And if you are honest, you'll admit the daylight/nighttime explanation given by FE'ers doesn't wash.

Not knowing how the celestial bodies in the sky work is unfalsifiable, everything in the sky can not be falsified, you and I can't get up there to test our theories and prove for it for ourselves. But it doesn't detract from the testable and tangible stuff that we can see, the tangible stuff we can falsify. The stuff we can look at for ourselves, experiment for ourselves. It also doesn't mean that the heliocentric model doesn't have major flaws.

There's more... but you get the idea. Serious question: Are all FE'ers like you that you know of? Or are some actually open to beliefs other than their own? I've always felt that an intelligent human being should be open to changing his/her mind about something if presented with good counter arguments. You can't go around parroting things over and over again and expect an understanding audience.

I'm not sure what you mean open to beliefs other than their own, I was taught the exact same things as you were. I believed the exact same things you currently do. I did change my mind, when I actually researched the claims of the globe that I was taught. I'm not after an understanding audience, if I was presented with quantifiable or scientific evidence, I would have no other choice than to accept that proof.

Finally I'll leave you with this.

A big deal for you is the water. You don't believe in gravity, and yet you continuously attempt to scientifically explain why water settles at its lowest point. You describe the phenomenon, but offer no explanation as to why. Simply stating that water drops to its lowest point isn't an explanation. It's an attempt to sound scientific without offering a real, plausible explanation. Nothing on Earth moves without an acting force. Being a smart guy you know that already. So why do things fall at all? Why does water settle at its lowest point? Why does Earth's atmosphere stay close to the surface, creating that pressure gradient you apparently deny. () Why indeed? Gravity. If there's another force other than gravity, prove it. Let's have YOU doing some of the proving for a change. Like I've said before, the onus is on you to prove the Earth is flat. So far NOTHING you've ever said proves it. Observations of pools of water do nothing to prove it.

Sorry I'll have to repeat this quote in regards to water and it settles at it's lowest point:

“The upper surface of a fluid at rest is a horizontal plane. Because if a part of the surface were higher than the rest, those parts of the fluid which were under it would exert a greater pressure upon the surrounding parts than they receive from them, so that motion would take place amongst the particles and continue until there were none at a higher level than the rest, that is, until the upper surface of the whole mass of fluid became a horizontal plane.” -W.T. Lynn, “First Principles of Natural Philosophy”

You'll also need to study classics physics and hydrodynamics to understand how water flows. It's very difficult to explain thoroughly here. The simple form of motion is called "laminar flow".

Now you claim gravity, mass attracting to mass right? But you are putting the cart before the horse. Making an assertion that it's gravity, is not proof of gravity. As I have mentioned science is the study of the natural world through observation and experiment. So I have to ask where do we observe mass attracting to mass in the natural world? And again the first step of the scientific method. I don't mean to repeat things, but it needs to be asked what experiment proved gravity?

The onus is not on me to prove FE, that's a logical fallacy, I have made no other claims other than questioning the globe and that the earth is demonstrably level, based on no measurable curvature and the natural physics of water. All the claims are being made by the globe model and the official narrative. So the onus is on those that believe those claims to prove them.


And finally....... I only answer questions once. You laughably want me to confirm to you the answer I first gave you regarding two objects dropped at the same time?? Try providing some answers of your own, instead of the constant parroting and regurgitation.

I only wanted to confirm your answer that both substances would fall, because if I had 1 pound of lead, and 1 pound of helium in a balloon, then your answer that they would both fall wouldn't hold true. But whatever.

A final thought is that FE Conferences could use guest speakers dealing with the art of arguing. If you're a typical FE'er, you are all so fucking BAD at it.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't attend any FE conference, the truth should be free. Those charging people, just to tell them the earth is flat are worse than shills in my opinion.

And again I'm only questioning the claims of the globe, by using science and the scientific method.

Anyway I'm done with the site, P4Pking's last rep comment about considering suicide was the last straw and has ruined it for me here, the poor guys lost, hopefully he find his own peace.

So thanks everyone, I enjoyed my time here, take care, and enjoy the fights. Peace.

[Fenster]

Take care Alpha, considering you were greatly outnumbered by ball-earthers you fought your corner with distinction. I make it a draw.

One day you'll all meet in a rocket to fly to the moon... then wake up in a tank of jelly on the Millennium Falcon.

[TitoFan]

4872: Attempt to convince a Flat Earther that the Earth is not flat. - CHECK