Should transgenered people be allowed to box?

[p4pking]

More great work from the university of Ron Swanson.

[TitoFan]

"Women of boxing discuss competing with transgender females"


http://proboxinginsider.com/women-of...ender-females/



Here's the opinion of some of those who actually have to step into the ring with transgender females. Some bravely go with the flow and don't seem to mind... but others emphatically say "no".

I agree with the latter.

[TitoFan]

In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

'Nough said.

[Master]

In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

'Nough said.

Women in Athletics are currently saying the same thing.

[Ron Swanson]

In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

'Nough said.

In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.

I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap

[Dark Lord Al]

Let the WBA have a world silver interim WBA Trannies and Shemale Title.

[powerpuncher]

In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

'Nough said.

In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.

I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap

This is much different than just being racist or sexist. This is about asking about an unfair advantage. For example, if a black man beats a white man in a race, nobody would call it cheating. If a man pretends to be a woman and races against a woman and wins, people would call it cheating because men are naturally more athletic in every way. That’s biology not sexist.

Now I know that there are many different situations when it comes to sex and gender. So I can understand an argument if hormone levels are essentially female but maybe you just have male parts. It’s a serious situation though when you have a woman who trains all of her life to win the Olympics and ends up losing to a “woman” that was born much more of a man than a woman. Also in combat sports, it becomes more dangerous. That’s why men and women don’t fight each other. It’s way too dangerous.

So don’t be one of those people who just call people sexist and don’t actually have a good argument for your name calling.

[TitoFan]

In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

'Nough said.

In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.

I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap

This is much different than just being racist or sexist. This is about asking about an unfair advantage. For example, if a black man beats a white man in a race, nobody would call it cheating. If a man pretends to be a woman and races against a woman and wins, people would call it cheating because men are naturally more athletic in every way. That’s biology not sexist.

Now I know that there are many different situations when it comes to sex and gender. So I can understand an argument if hormone levels are essentially female but maybe you just have male parts. It’s a serious situation though when you have a woman who trains all of her life to win the Olympics and ends up losing to a “woman” that was born much more of a man than a woman. Also in combat sports, it becomes more dangerous. That’s why men and women don’t fight each other. It’s way too dangerous.

So don’t be one of those people who just call people sexist and don’t actually have a good argument for your name calling.

Ignorance rears its ugly head with the usual suspects chiming in. No hey..... let's allow objections to men beating up on women to be called "sexist." It remains the easy "go to" answer to everything. As usual, it's easier to applaud the blurred lines of society than to make a stand, no matter how unpopular. I made a clear distinction saying if a trans woman who becomes a man wants to fight men.... let her be. The other way around, IMO, and in the opinion of most people with a good set of values "assigned at birth", is wrong.

If we want to play the all high and mighty with this, why not just drop all pretenses and just let women and men fight each other in the ring. Heaven knows we need more examples of men beating up on women in society. No @powerpuncher ..... let's let the Ron's and the Beanzs and the Fensters of the world continue carrying their torch. As I've said time and again, it's much easier to adopt the "everything's ok" attitude and criticize others for taking a stance. Blurred lines? No problem. Who cares that we've already had instances of women getting severely injured in a ring or octagon by a trans male/female. Never mind the opinion of the very fighters themselves, whose opinions I already posted in a link above. No..... all that matters is that we're cool with everything.

[holmcall]

Hmm. I'm staying out of this one.

[Fenster]

let's let the Ron's and the Beanzs and the Fensters of the world continue carrying their torch.

Show me where I posted before you wrote this?

If you can't, i'm willing to accept an apology and move on (i'll ignore the paranoia and lies).

[Ron Swanson]

In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

'Nough said.

In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.

I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap

This is much different than just being racist or sexist. This is about asking about an unfair advantage. For example, if a black man beats a white man in a race, nobody would call it cheating. If a man pretends to be a woman and races against a woman and wins, people would call it cheating because men are naturally more athletic in every way. That’s biology not sexist.

Now I know that there are many different situations when it comes to sex and gender. So I can understand an argument if hormone levels are essentially female but maybe you just have male parts. It’s a serious situation though when you have a woman who trains all of her life to win the Olympics and ends up losing to a “woman” that was born much more of a man than a woman. Also in combat sports, it becomes more dangerous. That’s why men and women don’t fight each other. It’s way too dangerous.

So don’t be one of those people who just call people sexist and don’t actually have a good argument for your name calling.

He literally said it depends on sex, that is the definition of sexist.

What should be considered and is ignored in this is that no woman would be forced to fight a transgender woman, or more correctly another woman. But when you say “you can’t because...” someone is being forced. Someone is having their rights taken away. The simple and fair solution is let people decide who they want to fight and don’t want to fight. That couldn’t possibly be more obvious and if you return to this debate in 20 years it will be as obvious as it should be now.

[p4pking]

https://goo.gl/images/7mgH4n

[TitoFan]

In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

'Nough said.

In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.

I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap

This is much different than just being racist or sexist. This is about asking about an unfair advantage. For example, if a black man beats a white man in a race, nobody would call it cheating. If a man pretends to be a woman and races against a woman and wins, people would call it cheating because men are naturally more athletic in every way. That’s biology not sexist.

Now I know that there are many different situations when it comes to sex and gender. So I can understand an argument if hormone levels are essentially female but maybe you just have male parts. It’s a serious situation though when you have a woman who trains all of her life to win the Olympics and ends up losing to a “woman” that was born much more of a man than a woman. Also in combat sports, it becomes more dangerous. That’s why men and women don’t fight each other. It’s way too dangerous.

So don’t be one of those people who just call people sexist and don’t actually have a good argument for your name calling.

He literally said it depends on sex, that is the definition of sexist.

What should be considered and is ignored in this is that no woman would be forced to fight a transgender woman, or more correctly another woman. But when you say “you can’t because...” someone is being forced. Someone is having their rights taken away. The simple and fair solution is let people decide who they want to fight and don’t want to fight. That couldn’t possibly be more obvious and if you return to this debate in 20 years it will be as obvious as it should be now.

Right. And if a woman champion refuses to fight a mandatory who happens to be a transgender, she would technically be ducking, and could be stripped.

But you continue your fantasy world scenarios and instructing us with your wisdom.



BTW, your quote ".... or more correctly another woman...."

Is that from that University of Swanson curriculum you're famous for?

[Beanz]

What is ironic/funny/tragic about the whole argument is how the very 'identity politics' that are seen as being so distasteful are being employed by those supposedly arguing against them.

So Ron can post this

'What should be considered and is ignored in this is that no woman would be forced to fight a transgender woman, or more correctly another woman. But when you say “you can’t because...” someone is being forced. Someone is having their rights taken away. The simple and fair solution is let people decide who they want to fight and don’t want to fight. That couldn’t possibly be more obvious and if you return to this debate in 20 years it will be as obvious as it should be now. '


And purely because Ron posted it, people can't bring themselves to be aligned to it, even if they agree.

Am I missing something? Only there seems to be a theme here that has seeped across the forum. Sure we can all agree to disagree still. Even take the piss out of opposite opinions but inventing enemies, by creating your opponents and their position for them is just daft.

You cannot argue some kind of libertarian position and then deny that freedom from those you are so valiantly claiming to defend. The only people forcing anything on anyone are those claiming that transgender women should not be able to fight 'born' women. Even when those 'born' women are happy to fight them.

It's no coincidence those female boxers are not quoted here. It's no coincidence the thread title is suggesting even trans boxers being able to box anyone (each other?) is supposedly up for debate. Allowed?

It's a sad indictment where merely liking a post morphs into a ringing endorsement of every word and can become the tinder(oooh er) to ignite a flame war. Hell, even using the word 'nuance' becomes a supposed indicator of God knows what.

Why is it such an anathema for posters to admit to being in agreement?

[p4pking]

In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

'Nough said.

In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.

I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap

When is gender indistinguishable at birth? I’ve never heard of such a thing, let alone one in sixty?