The Brexit Thread

[Beanz]

You are just deluding yourself by buying into a world of easy simple minded rhetoric. You continue to ignore simple facts and repeat proven lies, rather than engage with anything that might reveal the porkies you have been fed.

[Beanz]

Numbers? Really?

1.Immigration.
This is an unavoidable result of a more connected world. Its what happens to feed capitalisms insatiable greed for profits.

Profits over people.

War for profits at the expense of people creates immigrants.

NON EU immigration is already higher than EU immigration and will continue to grow after Brexit.

So the central tennet of the leave campaigns sermon is a lie. Immigration will rise and from further away. You and the peculiar Europhobic people like Bannon and Trump goading you on will actually increase non white, often Muslim, culturally incompatible immigration. You will tie the hands of white Christian and atheist workers in order to inadvertently create the invasion you dream/fear.

[Beanz]

2.

It matters not what you consider to be this or that.

Fear is the leave campaign's mantra.

The EU is both democratic and accountable while the sovereign Parliament you all pretend is preferable is full of unaccountable elites. Again and again their jobs and parties come before the good of citizens.

They preside over the death of thousands and yet you choose to remain silent and unwittingly conspire with them by deflecting the blame onto Europe.

Most people are not aghast at living amongst Europeans. We are Europeans.

[Gandalf]

2.

It matters not what you consider to be this or that.

Fear is the leave campaign's mantra.

The EU is both democratic and accountable while the sovereign Parliament you all pretend is preferable is full of unaccountable elites. Again and again their jobs and parties come before the good of citizens.

They preside over the death of thousands and yet you choose to remain silent and unwittingly conspire with them by deflecting the blame onto Europe.

Most people are not aghast at living amongst Europeans. We are Europeans.

We are people actually, but we are from different systems with different languages and cultures. You clearly see yourself as European whereas I see myself as British. Maybe this is your foreign heritage talking, but all I know is that I do not speak languages of Europe or have a European passport or a European heritage. I am British.

You appear to be arguing that our own system is not good enough and that somehow a European one makes it better. No. The British elite have got away with cronyism because of the apathy of the British people. It is on them to bring it down through new parties or other forms of action. How do you think a President out here ended up in prison yet you still have Tony Blair, war criminal, walking free still profiting from treason. He sees himself as European too.

It is on the British people to change their own system and the first step is to get away from Europe. We are not Europeans. We are British.

[Beanz]

3.

Its not projection. It is a fact. The negativity runs right through all of it. It is an ideaology revealing it's lack of ideas in it's rhetoric. The submission mantra. It says change is bad, here is the way the world works and when it doesn't it is the fault of everyone outside my cave and has nothing to do with me throwing my crap outside or raining spears down on my neighbours.

'They Turk Er Jerbs' is not an excuse to sink an economy and pretend 48% of a population are 'losers'.

That is the church of lameoid dribblers not a realistic alternative.

[Gandalf]

3.

Its not projection. It is a fact. The negativity runs right through all of it. It is an ideaology revealing it's lack of ideas in it's rhetoric. The submission mantra. It says change is bad, here is the way the world works and when it doesn't it is the fault of everyone outside my cave and has nothing to do with me throwing my crap outside or raining spears down on my neighbours.

'They Turk Er Jerbs' is not an excuse to sink an economy and pretend 48% of a population are 'losers'.

That is the church of lameoid dribblers not a realistic alternative.

Granted, Tories like Boris Johnson and Gove are full of hot air and have no idea what they want. I know what I want though and I believe it is largely a positive thing. It is a country regaining its own sovereignty. Isn't it positive to be a country doing things on your own terms accountable only to the 60 million within your own territory? How is it submissive to regain control of your country? It is the opposite, it is to get back on your own saddle and do the riding yourself.

The populace was never asked if it wanted open borders or to lose sovereignty. They were asked finally if they wanted to be part of it and they said no. Theresa May is being purposely submissive, but she is wrong for doing so and should be playing hard and laying down 'This way or the highway' and if needed to go even further. She is a weak leader and is pro Europe whence what the British are putting up with right now.

This week there will be a Brexit rally and if Brexit is not delivered, then the UK proves yet again that it has no interest in democracy or the will of the people and perhaps that is a good thing to galvanize people further.

Also the idea that we are Europeans. Try telling a Korean that they are Asians and should just be lumped together with nations that occupied them and tried to eliminate their culture. They would not look at you very fondly. They have museums built for their very own Tommy Robinson's and are called patriots.

[Beanz]

Theresa May is suggesting a version of Brexit in which we will have less say than we do now. That is nothing to do with regaining sovereignty. We never lost it, that is a myth, repeating that myth just like the laughable idea that Robinson is a patriot does not become magically true by you repeating it. We are Europeans however much you want to put your fingers in your ears and pretend otherwise. That has nothing to do with advocating lumping anything together or celebrating and maintaining one's Englishness or Britishness etc. You are presenting a straw man argument that I never made. It is denial mate. You studied history you know this. It is in the very bones, laws and traditions of our culture in Britain. It is it's DNA.

You seem to want to argue for preserving Europe against the invading Muslim hordes and yet to be able to deny the Judeo/Christian tradition that built the laws, Cathedrals, Castles, Laws, books etc on which British culture is founded. Even before that our blood and genes come form Europe. I can go across the water to Britanny and celebrate the festival of Celts every year with people from Cornwall, Britanny, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Isle of man, Galica etc and find dances and songs, words (language) , Dress, crafts, instruments and food that is shared by all, and has been for centuries. You are pretending this doesn't exist and that England and Britain started in the 1980s with Only Fools and Horses and some BT salesman from Romford who runs UKIP and thinks that the EU is a Nazi project and that Robinson is the second coming of Jesus. It is beyond parody.

[Fenster]

I can't recall ever meeting anyone in my life who classed themselves as European (thought it was an invention for the Ryder Cup?).

And Turks didn't take all the jobs, they did take over all the greasy cafes to front the gear and brass trade though. Fact. (Keep it in the family)

[Beanz]

[Gandalf]

Numbers? Really?

1.Immigration.
This is an unavoidable result of a more connected world. Its what happens to feed capitalisms insatiable greed for profits.

Profits over people.

War for profits at the expense of people creates immigrants.

NON EU immigration is already higher than EU immigration and will continue to grow after Brexit.

So the central tennet of the leave campaigns sermon is a lie. Immigration will rise and from further away. You and the peculiar Europhobic people like Bannon and Trump goading you on will actually increase non white, often Muslim, culturally incompatible immigration. You will tie the hands of white Christian and atheist workers in order to inadvertently create the invasion you dream/fear.

Excessive immigration is a political choice and goes against the desires of the general population. It is not unavoidable, it is simply that the two party tyranny refuses to alter course and control it. When is enough enough for you? You already know that the financial cost of immigration is heavy as documented by Murray. People were never asked and the consequence is a drain on the economy or else the loss of jobs that locals can be doing.

Profits over people? It is just 3 words. You will need to construct a better argument. I do not follow.

Are you suggesting that 4.2 million people came from Europe as the result of war or more truthfully because their countries are poor and they could profit more handsomely from the UK? Then there are those from beyond Europe who indeed cost money.

People from Pakistan or India have little to do with war. Even those that are from war zones are not the responsibility of the British people who were always against the wars.

Non EU migration will only rise under a Labour/Tory monopoly. Things can change very quickly when you make enough people angry. Labour and Tory are both very unpopular right now and people seem to want an end to them both. Both are against the will of the people. That does not get away from the fact that people want an end to immigration. The fact that Labour and Tory will betray them does not avoid that fact.

Nice to tie me in with Bannon and Trump when all I argue is for democracy and controlled borders. This is why I would endorse Ukip or For Britain rather than ever consider the two parties that have ruined a great country.

There is only ever a need for moderate incremental immigration on a temporary visa based system for specific jobs. Anything more is unreasonable and against the wishes of the populace.

[Beanz]

Ukip?

Miles you are better than that. Hells bells😁

[Gandalf]

Ukip?

Miles you are better than that. Hells bells😁

I like the direction under Batten. He seems like a solid person with a reasonable grasp on things.

[Beanz]

Ukip?

Miles you are better than that. Hells bells😁

I like the direction under Batten. He seems like a solid person with a reasonable grasp on things.

Then Gandalf is absolutely 100% a Steve Coogan inspired character in the tradition of Partridge /Calf /Cheeseman/Saxondale.

Batten? 😁