The Environmental Thread

[Gandalf]

Overpopulation. You cannot double a population every few decades and expect infinite benefits.

[Beanz]

Overpopulation. You cannot double a population every few decades and expect infinite benefits.

This is a very common response, and no disrespect, but this does not sound like your reasoned argument Miles, more like you you repeating something that protects the planets very richest who are responsible for 50% of lifestyle emissions and the very greedy valueless form of capitalism for the last 50 yrs. The facts simply do not support the blame the 3rd world excuse, which is a particularly morally redundant bit of blame shifting if we are going to be honest. Anything to deflect from those responsible having to make the real changes to make a difference. The environment can recover but many of us will have to live very different lives and stop the religious adherence to a system that values nothing but the hoarding of personal wealth. The 'less developed' world has more than enough resources to feed itself but for there is much here in the west that can be done to achieve the same results. The USA could feed more than 400 million people if they consumed what they currently export for example. Childless couples go on way more foreign holidays by plane, often run more environmentally damaging vehicles and generally live a more self centered and environmentally damaging lifestyle. It's a inconvenient fact because you don't get to blame what Trump would call 'shithole' countries and pretend that you can IQ test you way to salvation. You have been sold a crock of shite by a bunch of cunts who not only stole the pot of gold at the end but would not give a shit about stealing the Rainbow that led to it.

Much like the British and Americans being largely responsible for the nurturing and export of the Saudi based warped violent extremist version of Islam around the world, the promotion of an oil based economy to feed that monster is one of the reasons they continue to fight tooth and nail to maintain the ignorant belief system that most of the non-religious west slavishly follows like sheep without question.

We can't carry on living in denial.

[Beanz]

Over consumption.

[Gandalf]

Look at the population of the UK over the past 200 years alone. It's mental, then you expand it globally and it is insanity. The countries that produce massive amounts of pollution today are China and India and their populations are crazy. India and large parts of China are still poor, so not just a rich mans game. The US is strangely excessive and I can only assume the people pass wind a lot. As other countries 'develop' they too produce more pollution too. And then when such countries are overpopulated where do they seek to go? To the countries that produce the most emissions.

If you want people to use less plastic the best way is to have less people. It is common sense.

I will not change my lifestyle as I don't think it is an excessive one and certainly nothing compared to a person with half a dozen children or even a few children in the West. I shall eat beef, use my AC, and drive with Springsteen on the radio. I have no guilt about it really. I compromise by seldom using any heat in the winter as I don't feel the cold. You will never see me on a business class flight (or even many flights), or performing a world tour with the latest technology to hide my lack of tunes, or driving a formula one racing car, or live in Dubai with the AC cranked up while people use inside ski slopes. It's up to everyone else what they do, but I am not terribly greedy really. Only do what I need to do in the here and now. Almost monk like in some ways really.

[p4pking]

Look at the population of the UK over the past 200 years alone. It's mental, then you expand it globally and it is insanity. The countries that produce massive amounts of pollution today are China and India and their populations are crazy. India and large parts of China are still poor, so not just a rich mans game. The US is strangely excessive and I can only assume the people pass wind a lot. As other countries 'develop' they too produce more pollution too. And then when such countries are overpopulated where do they seek to go? To the countries that produce the most emissions.

If you want people to use less plastic the best way is to have less people. It is common sense.

I will not change my lifestyle as I don't think it is an excessive one and certainly nothing compared to a person with half a dozen children or even a few children in the West. I shall eat beef, use my AC, and drive with Springsteen on the radio. I have no guilt about it really. I compromise by seldom using any heat in the winter as I don't feel the cold. You will never see me on a business class flight (or even many flights), or performing a world tour with the latest technology to hide my lack of tunes, or driving a formula one racing car, or live in Dubai with the AC cranked up while people use inside ski slopes. It's up to everyone else what they do, but I am not terribly greedy really. Only do what I need to do in the here and now. Almost monk like in some ways really.

All thats left is either a vow of silence or lighting yourself on fire.

[Fenster]

The protesters in London are typical privileged cunts. Hypocrites. This gives them the chance to play the victim. "We're the last generation, we've had our future stolen" (sickening).

Every era in history has been littered with complete and utter cunts who believe everything begins and ends with them.

[Spicoli]

Big fan of the Environment. More pissed off that they killed Solo off like that though. Mid 50's in the deep South tonight. Not normal.

[walrus]

Big fan of the Environment. More pissed off that they killed Solo off like that though. Mid 50's in the deep South tonight. Not normal.

What is the normal temp. We had a deep freeze winter I’ll tell you that, no joke up here.

[Beanz]

The protesters in London are typical privileged cunts. Hypocrites. This gives them the chance to play the victim. "We're the last generation, we've had our future stolen" (sickening).

Every era in history has been littered with complete and utter cunts who believe everything begins and ends with them.

Yeah obviously all of them. From the kids to the grannies its all down to some bloke in a hut in Africa anyway

[Gandalf]

The protesters in London are typical privileged cunts. Hypocrites. This gives them the chance to play the victim. "We're the last generation, we've had our future stolen" (sickening).

Every era in history has been littered with complete and utter cunts who believe everything begins and ends with them.

Yeah obviously all of them. From the kids to the grannies its all down to some bloke in a hut in Africa anyway

Look at the population of India where the majority defacate in the streets. It is far more than some bloke in a hut. The Ganges is a horrible mess and disease rampant. It is far more than greenhouse emissions. Mass overpopulation is a real problem and is going to get much worse. It is something some people are in denial about.

http://theconversation.com/ganges-se...r-worse-108146

[Fenster]

The protesters in London are typical privileged cunts. Hypocrites. This gives them the chance to play the victim. "We're the last generation, we've had our future stolen" (sickening).

Every era in history has been littered with complete and utter cunts who believe everything begins and ends with them.

Yeah obviously all of them. From the kids to the grannies its all down to some bloke in a hut in Africa anyway

Sorry I forgot Lyle's favourite - #notall.

It's more white than a Tommy Robinson shindig. I just can't stand the hypocrisy (the litter they've left behind/gadgets/travelling in cars, trains and planes), they're enjoying themselves playing victim and causing trouble, holier-than-thou usual suspects who'll eff-off back to their 99.9% white middle-class lives.

It's not the message I have a problem with just the people (they'll be at Glastonbury and fly off to Malawi/Goa for a holiday).

If it was thousands of bods living in mud huts who were genuinely suffering i'd roar them on.

[TitoFan]

Overpopulation. You cannot double a population every few decades and expect infinite benefits.

This is a very common response, and no disrespect, but this does not sound like your reasoned argument Miles, more like you you repeating something that protects the planets very richest who are responsible for 50% of lifestyle emissions and the very greedy valueless form of capitalism for the last 50 yrs. The facts simply do not support the blame the 3rd world excuse, which is a particularly morally redundant bit of blame shifting if we are going to be honest. Anything to deflect from those responsible having to make the real changes to make a difference. The environment can recover but many of us will have to live very different lives and stop the religious adherence to a system that values nothing but the hoarding of personal wealth. The 'less developed' world has more than enough resources to feed itself but for there is much here in the west that can be done to achieve the same results. The USA could feed more than 400 million people if they consumed what they currently export for example. Childless couples go on way more foreign holidays by plane, often run more environmentally damaging vehicles and generally live a more self centered and environmentally damaging lifestyle. It's a inconvenient fact because you don't get to blame what Trump would call 'shithole' countries and pretend that you can IQ test you way to salvation. You have been sold a crock of shite by a bunch of cunts who not only stole the pot of gold at the end but would not give a shit about stealing the Rainbow that led to it.

Much like the British and Americans being largely responsible for the nurturing and export of the Saudi based warped violent extremist version of Islam around the world, the promotion of an oil based economy to feed that monster is one of the reasons they continue to fight tooth and nail to maintain the ignorant belief system that most of the non-religious west slavishly follows like sheep without question.

We can't carry on living in denial.

I'll chime in by saying we can't responsibly look after the planet's resources while ignoring the population explosion factor.

Here's the key. It's a global problem. Not solely the responsibility of the U.S. or any other superpower. Efforts must be made globally. At the same time we're developing new technologies to grow crops without depending on traditional methods... at the same time we're looking inward to our own developed countries to see how to better protect the environment... at the same time we're doing all this research for better planned cities and the like.... we also need to assign responsibilities to less developed countries and cultures as well. Just because let's say, China, previously lagged behind in industrialization and development, it doesn't mean they should be given carte blanche to catch up and even pass the rest of the world by..... without giving one iota to the environmental concerns of the world. It's like Harrison Ford said in his speech. We can put solar panels in every home in the U.S., and switch every car in the U.S. to electric power. It still doesn't alleviate the problem of deforestation in the Amazon basin, or the destruction of wetlands in other parts of the world.

You see... the problem is that we're at a certain stage in standard of living.... but other countries are desperately trying to catch up. The quintessential image of the indigenous tribal child playing with his smart phone in the village is the typical picture of the world's encroachment on the less developed. Once they taste that style of living, they're not going to be willing to listen to the importance of maintaining the jungles and rain forests.

So while saying overpopulation by itself may sound simplistic and copy-pasted.... it's a very real problem. Why not educate tribal peoples in Africa that having 15 children per family does no one any good? I see no harm in that. Times have changed. We must change with the times.

[SlimTrae]

Overpopulation. You cannot double a population every few decades and expect infinite benefits.

So does this mean your anti-Viagra, Cialis?

[Gandalf]

Overpopulation. You cannot double a population every few decades and expect infinite benefits.

So does this mean your anti-Viagra, Cialis?

People can take Viagra all they like. I just think the more people there are the more resources will be consumed and thus the environment will continue to suffer. There will come a tipping point from which we won't return. It won't be the end of the world and those with resources will be fine, but it will be serious suffering for billions. I am not sure it is worth it when you can just have less children. However, people won't change and thus the consequences will be what they will be.

[Beanz]

Blaming overpopulation is just another example of parroting neo liberal dogma in order to avoid confronting the real issue. There is more than enough food and resources but if you want to continually defend the incredibly unequal distribution of that and the maintenance of a hyper elite class you will of course turn on and attack the poor.

Blame single mothers, pretend all black families have been abandoned by their fathers, pretend that anyone not having gold reserves are feckless and responsible for squandering resources, blame the EU, blame lefties, blame anti fascists, blame champagne socialists, blame immigrants and victims of war, pretend climate change is a hoax. Anything but confront the fact that the changes needed will mean a different way of living for the west because to pretend otherwise will end up in our own extinction.