Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

[El Kabong]

Let's have some context as to where we're headed as a society (I'm lumping the West together here)


THE WORLD IN 2007
Outrage turns to laughter at Ahmadinejad NY speech
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...28553420070925


10 years later
Berkeley protests of Yiannopoulos caused $100,000 in damage
https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/mi...ley/index.html



Hate on Tommy or anyone else for that matter ALL YOU WANT, but the man deserves the same rights as any other citizen in England. I know I loathe Louis Farrakhan but he should be allowed to speak. Be very careful about policing speech you disagree with because there will come a day where it's yourself on the other side of that argument it might not be today, it might not be tomorrow, but if what is happening to Tommy is allowed to reach it's desired end result (which probably winds up with Tommy and his family all dead or in jail forever) then the momentum will carry that through to the next "Wrongthinker" and if the government so chooses that could very well be you.

[Beanz]

Let's have some context as to where we're headed as a society (I'm lumping the West together here)


THE WORLD IN 2007
Outrage turns to laughter at Ahmadinejad NY speech
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...28553420070925


10 years later
Berkeley protests of Yiannopoulos caused $100,000 in damage
https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/mi...ley/index.html



Hate on Tommy or anyone else for that matter ALL YOU WANT, but the man deserves the same rights as any other citizen in England. I know I loathe Louis Farrakhan but he should be allowed to speak. Be very careful about policing speech you disagree with because there will come a day where it's yourself on the other side of that argument it might not be today, it might not be tomorrow, but if what is happening to Tommy is allowed to reach it's desired end result (which probably winds up with Tommy and his family all dead or in jail forever) then the momentum will carry that through to the next "Wrongthinker" and if the government so chooses that could very well be you.

I appreciate the point you are trying to make but I think that are pointing an equivalence that is not really there. Putting aside the differences between the USA and the UK for now you are asserting, like many others that Tommy is not being given his rights to free speech. This is the same Tommy Robinson running for election to the EU which we always being told is actually a dictatorship. Not only is the video evidence there of him campaigning just like Nigel to join the elite career politician gravy train, but he is all over the free press. From far right wing rags like the Daily Heil to the leftist Guardian and everything inbetween. He has already broken a load of electoral laws in giving out free food and providing entertainment but he is carrying on. He may well if he is imprisoned in his forthcoming case be breaking yet another law in even standing for election, so spare us all the innocent Tommy rubbish.

Nobody seems to be acknowledging Tommy and his heavies keenness to shut the mouth of anyone using their democratic voice to protest, or the blatant constant aggressive stance taken by finger wagging getting in your face Tommy and the thugs who surround him. Yes of course people with whom we disagree should be allowed the right to speak but that does not extend to them dictating who the law should apply to, insisting that the right to spread violence, division and hatred are also ensconced within that same privilege.

People have thrown eggs etc at campaigning politicians for years. Not until Prescott the new labour thug puched some bloke back has it now been seen as acceptable to pretend that politicians are OK to rain punches down onto people like Tommy has for years now.

Milo and I am a Dinner Jacket maybe both confused homosexuals with a distaste for their own attractions, but there the similarity ends. I understand your disgust at the whole deplatforming thing, particularly at Universities but you will find the same attitude amongst the very heart of the rhetoric espoused by those that they oppose. There is no respect there in Milo or Gavin or Tommy for any kind of reasonable debate. Like Peterson they throw verbal hand grenades and then feign alarm when people acting on their extremist nonsense go out and harass, bully, attack and murder people they have painted as enemies of the people. They are just as sickening and twisted as the tabloid press.

[El Kabong]

I appreciate the point you are trying to make but I think that are pointing an equivalence that is not really there. Putting aside the differences between the USA and the UK for now you are asserting, like many others that Tommy is not being given his rights to free speech. This is the same Tommy Robinson running for election to the EU which we always being told is actually a dictatorship. Not only is the video evidence there of him campaigning just like Nigel to join the elite career politician gravy train, but he is all over the free press. From far right wing rags like the Daily Heil to the leftist Guardian and everything inbetween. He has already broken a load of electoral laws in giving out free food and providing entertainment but he is carrying on. He may well if he is imprisoned in his forthcoming case be breaking yet another law in even standing for election, so spare us all the innocent Tommy rubbish.

Nobody seems to be acknowledging Tommy and his heavies keenness to shut the mouth of anyone using their democratic voice to protest, or the blatant constant aggressive stance taken by finger wagging getting in your face Tommy and the thugs who surround him. Yes of course people with whom we disagree should be allowed the right to speak but that does not extend to them dictating who the law should apply to, insisting that the right to spread violence, division and hatred are also ensconced within that same privilege.

People have thrown eggs etc at campaigning politicians for years. Not until Prescott the new labour thug puched some bloke back has it now been seen as acceptable to pretend that politicians are OK to rain punches down onto people like Tommy has for years now.

Milo and I am a Dinner Jacket maybe both confused homosexuals with a distaste for their own attractions, but there the similarity ends. I understand your disgust at the whole deplatforming thing, particularly at Universities but you will find the same attitude amongst the very heart of the rhetoric espoused by those that they oppose. There is no respect there in Milo or Gavin or Tommy for any kind of reasonable debate. Like Peterson they throw verbal hand grenades and then feign alarm when people acting on their extremist nonsense go out and harass, bully, attack and murder people they have painted as enemies of the people. They are just as sickening and twisted as the tabloid press.

I'm resigned to never changing your mind on this issue much like I'm resigned to the fact that no matter what Trump says or does certain people are going to hate him, he could cure cancer and people would still think he's the antichrist.

I don't believe Tommy is shy about debate. I can assure you that Gavin and Milo and Jordan Peterson are not shy about debate at all....the questions must be asked especially since Gavin & Milo's "unpersoning" What forum/venue/platform would they be ALLOWED to speak on? Where would there be an audience ALLOWED to hear their views? Gavin used to be on FoxNews, he used to have a show on CompoundMedia and RebelTV and now he's doing his own thing since he was let go when BlazeTV bought CRTV due to the SPLC WRONGFULLY labeling him and the Proud Boys as "white nationalists" and "hate merchants" whatever the fuck that is. Nobody mainstream will have him and so this whole "He won't debate! He's mentally weak and unable to defend his beliefs" is not correct. Gavin has debated Richard Spencer who is an actual White Supremacist and Gavin has called out the idiocy of White Supremacy and this insane idea Spencer has for a White ethnostate. McInnes ponders "Hundreds of interracial couples, thousands of little mixed babies, what happens to them? Do they all get sent to Africa?" yes it's a ridiculous notion he brings up but that ridicule takes any and all air out of Spencer's ever so serious contention for this fucking ethnostate....which is kinda odd no? You know for someone the SPLC says is a "white nationalist" to take the piss out of an actual self described white nationalist?....but I get it you know OF those guys you don't really bother listening to them and that is perfectly A-OK Jim Dandy fine. I'm merely attempting to point out that he doesn't have much of a platform on which to debate given that Big Tech has unpersoned him. If McInnes or Milo weren't banned they'd debate ANYONE it's kinda what they do, win lose, or draw they'll speak their piece and listen to others as well.

Jordan Peterson just had a very friendly debate with Slavoj Zizek. Zizek calls himself a Communist, but he's very evasive about it and even he has disdain for 20th century Communism. I don't think Peterson handled that debate the best as I believe he's not caught up on Big Tech and their forms of totalitarian control...but other than that it was a solid debate.

You're right in your statement that "Milo and I am a Dinner Jacket maybe both confused homosexuals with a distaste for their own attractions, but there the similarity ends." Milo is harmless, he's a rascal, a rogue, an edgelord, a shitposter, a provocateur...Ahmadinejad was a puppet leader of one of the largest terrorist states on Earth. And yet it was MILO whose speech was met with violence and riots...WHY? What about Milo is threatening vs Ahmadinejad? It's that Milo, although very silly, can get folks to question their thinking by being relatable as a human and clever in how he poses his arguments/beliefs whereas Ahmadinejad is a dictator who people believe because they have no fucking choice not to ...at least in Iran. Once Ahmadinejad spoke and people laughed at his assessment that "Iran doesn't have that problem" when asked about gays in Iran....that was the power of free speech in action! Ahmadinejad was rendered weak, useless, pathetic, the emperor was shown to be wearing not even his trusty Members Only jacket and in front of all those young college kids and THEY were the ones who did that to him.....yet we're to believe that kids of the same age can't handle Milo or Gavin or Dr. Peterson or Ben Shapiro the Jewiest "white supremacist" ever? It is ridiculous coddling and it's not helping create mature adults.

At the end of the day you're free to hate Tommy or think as little of him as you'd like, but I like my idiots out in the open loud and proud so I can see them and talk their points down because I don't fear them and remember turnabout is fair play and that is why all speech must be allowed else we go down the slippery slope of what's allowed or not allowed and next thing you know it you wind up in a gulag and we're not that far off.

[Beanz]

Thanks I too am resigned to not changing anyone's mind on any issue on a forum now I think. I am sure I would have much more in common with some posters than others but would get along fine in person. Even with someone like Smash I think I have more common ground than points of diametric opposition. I am not sure the dichotomy you present is a real one though. Trump for all his detractors is the president of the most powerful country on earth and yet abuses that free speech in the personal rubbish spats he indulges in on social media. I don't think Trump is the antichrist nor Tommy, It does not really keep me awake at night. I see them as part of a continuation of hucksters and con men and wide boys, like many of the politicians and celebs, etc that went before them. Mcinnes is certainly part of that tradition and Peterson is playing the same game. It does not mean they can not make valid points, but I do not put them on a pedestal and close my eyes to the over riding nihilst and destructive message that they preach and it is a rhetoric.

I have been surrounded by people wearing anti-facist and anti-racist badges and living by those standards since the 1970's. It is not a new thing for me or a huge part of the western population. Now people feel free to boast about their bigotry and not even try to hide the lies they will tell to demonize others it is actually extremely helpful. The kind of blind loyalty to dogma I think you see in the new wave of American far left groups is exactly the same found here in this thread and preached by Tommy. Look how Tommy running for election to the EU is not commented on by those who preached that the EU is a dictatorship. The same with Farage a man lining his pockets in a disgustingly blatant and dishonest way with the expense accounts he railed against.

[El Kabong]

I don't know what's changed maybe it's Antifa, maybe it's the definition of the term Fascist but there's a lot more violence, there's a lot more ACCEPTED and UNPUNISHED violence.


Antifa has done everything they possibly can to shut down debate and speech in the US and IMO they've crossed a lot of lines. There's no way in hell the world has enough Nazis or white supremacists or fascists to meet their demand.


Antifa ousted Candace Owens (a black woman who happens to be Conservative) from a restaurant in Philadelphia in a manner reminiscent of the segregationist South. It's fine to be anti-fascist, but the fascists you're anti about had best be actual fucking fascists instead of folks who just believe in the rule of law and capitalism because those are some mighty weak "fascists" to attack.


American Anarchist/Socialism/Antifascism has a long history and it ain't a great one, it's bloody and violent and hateful and it's been about 100 years since it reared it's ugly head. Back then it was bombings of government buildings...I wonder if we'll see that again. i certainly hope not.

[smashup]

Thanks I too am resigned to not changing anyone's mind on any issue on a forum now I think. I am sure I would have much more in common with some posters than others but would get along fine in person. Even with someone like Smash I think I have more common ground than points of diametric opposition. I am not sure the dichotomy you present is a real one though. Trump for all his detractors is the president of the most powerful country on earth and yet abuses that free speech in the personal rubbish spats he indulges in on social media. I don't think Trump is the antichrist nor Tommy, It does not really keep me awake at night. I see them as part of a continuation of hucksters and con men and wide boys, like many of the politicians and celebs, etc that went before them. Mcinnes is certainly part of that tradition and Peterson is playing the same game. It does not mean they can not make valid points, but I do not put them on a pedestal and close my eyes to the over riding nihilst and destructive message that they preach and it is a rhetoric.

I have been surrounded by people wearing anti-facist and anti-racist badges and living by those standards since the 1970's. It is not a new thing for me or a huge part of the western population. Now people feel free to boast about their bigotry and not even try to hide the lies they will tell to demonize others it is actually extremely helpful. The kind of blind loyalty to dogma I think you see in the new wave of American far left groups is exactly the same found here in this thread and preached by Tommy. Look how Tommy running for election to the EU is not commented on by those who preached that the EU is a dictatorship. The same with Farage a man lining his pockets in a disgustingly blatant and dishonest way with the expense accounts he railed against.

"Someone like Smash" ?

[walrus]

Who gives a shit. It’s just speech. I know you guys crack down on speech but our constitution protected speech as the know it is the bedrock of freedom.

[El Kabong]

Who gives a shit. It’s just speech. I know you guys crack down on speech but our constitution protected speech as the know it is the bedrock of freedom.

Well people DO get arrested for jokes on the internet....look at Mark Meechan (Count Dankula). He's more of a lefty than anything else and people branded him a Nazi for teaching his girlfriend's dog to do "heil"....do people think "Oh shit the Nazi's have a pug, there's no bloody stopping them now!"


And if that's the case when is John Cleese going to be arrested for his Hitler schtick on Fawlty Towers? Is there a statute of limitations on Nazi jokes?

[Gandalf]

Who gives a shit. It’s just speech. I know you guys crack down on speech but our constitution protected speech as the know it is the bedrock of freedom.

Well people DO get arrested for jokes on the internet....look at Mark Meechan (Count Dankula). He's more of a lefty than anything else and people branded him a Nazi for teaching his girlfriend's dog to do "heil"....do people think "Oh shit the Nazi's have a pug, there's no bloody stopping them now!"


And if that's the case when is John Cleese going to be arrested for his Hitler schtick on Fawlty Towers? Is there a statute of limitations on Nazi jokes?

The thing is anything goes in comedy or at least it did. I was watching Gervais last night mocking the name change of The Spastics Society to Scope. Now obviously Ricky Gervais has nothing personally against anyone with something like Cerebral Palsy. It is just a comedy routine. Sure feelings might get 'hurt', but at the end of the day a JOKE is a JOKE. If you don't want to listen, then don't listen to Ricky Gervais. It's a big world with lots of speech out there. Hate speech law is something that needs to be abolished. As long as someone is not threatening violence or outright telling porkies, then you should be free to say what you want in the crucible of ideas.

[El Kabong]

The thing is anything goes in comedy or at least it did. I was watching Gervais last night mocking the name change of The Spastics Society to Scope. Now obviously Ricky Gervais has nothing personally against anyone with something like Cerebral Palsy. It is just a comedy routine. Sure feelings might get 'hurt', but at the end of the day a JOKE is a JOKE. If you don't want to listen, then don't listen to Ricky Gervais. It's a big world with lots of speech out there. Hate speech law is something that needs to be abolished. As long as someone is not threatening violence or outright telling porkies, then you should be free to say what you want in the crucible of ideas.

Some of Gervais' funniest stuff is when he pokes fun of the Bible. I consider myself Christian but I'll still have a laugh at that. The bit that irks me is not everyone joins in which makes me wonder why of course. Are you that serious that you never laugh? Are you too insecure in your faith? Is your faith too good for some levity? Do you think your religion is above all and can't be mocked?


Hate speech is bullshit. Let people say bad things at least you know who is thinking that shit. You can make a mental note to avoid them. And who decides what "hate speech" actually is? The SPLC and ADL and CAIR and NAACP, and La Raza and GLAAD cover a few bases, but not all and they aren't objective either.

[Fenster]

Just watched miles vid - even you Robinson fans must admit he looks like a right cunt having a punch up in a shopping centre. I never realised the milk shake smasher was chasing him all over the shop - thought he was an innocent bystander - but regardless.

Remember when it was shocking and celebrated that John Prescott jabbed that farmer who chinned him with an egg? These days nobody thinks anything of a punch up around a load of grannies. Madness.

[Gandalf]

Just watched miles vid - even you Robinson fans must admit he looks like a right cunt having a punch up in a shopping centre. I never realised the milk shake smasher was chasing him all over the shop - thought he was an innocent bystander - but regardless.

Remember when it was shocking and celebrated that John Prescott jabbed that farmer who chinned him with an egg? These days nobody thinks anything of a punch up around a load of grannies. Madness.

Which part of the video is that Fenster?

[Gandalf]

And yes The Milkshake Guru was around earlier in the day, apparently charged into a bunch of women, and then at the end when challenged on his behavior lied about what had happened and then violently threw a drink in Robinson's face. And the media lapped it up as did some very cowardly politicians. He claimed it had slipped and that he was now shaken. Absolutely ridiculous. The chap was later laughing in a taxi. Plenty of people have been arrested for FAR LESS than that.

I think what we are seeing now with The Daily Mail article about Sargon and the media response to this just how fake the news is at this stage and people simply do not buy it anymore.

We are getting to the stage now where many of us here are older than this current crop of journalists and can see straight through what they are doing.

[Dark Lord Al]

I hate the fact liberals tell the rest of us what we really think , NO its my opinion thanks, i dont want to change the liberals mind because i dont concider their opinions relevant.

Corbyn is a muslim hugging pacifist with the single most ridiculous side kick in history , labour and the conservatives are traitors to democracy.

If Robinson has thrown a milkshake at the very same muslim then he would have been banged up.

FACT.

[Beanz]

I hate the fact liberals tell the rest of us what we really think , NO its my opinion thanks, i dont want to change the liberals mind because i dont concider their opinions relevant.

Corbyn is a muslim hugging pacifist with the single most ridiculous side kick in history , labour and the conservatives are traitors to democracy.

If Robinson has thrown a milkshake at the very same muslim then he would have been banged up.

FACT.

That is not a fact Al is it? That is just you repeating the same rubbish you have heard others claim. Do you not think if poor old Tommy was such a persecuted 'minority' they would not have had ample reason to lock him up after roving the country with his bunch of thugs instigating violence, starting punchups and the videos of those attacks being all over the newsfeeds? All this when he is due back in court.

Milkshake /Bad, Punching people in the head/Fine, is just a stupid thing to think not a fact at all.

If you don't con cider someones opinion as relevant maybe you should move to the westcountry