Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?

[Gandalf]

Denilson, I will go through your points in numerical form and be concise as your post was too long and I cannot post it.

1. I have been called racist a number of times, but don't really care. I will stand by data and science and if that is thought crime, then I take it on the chin, bad boy.
2. You didn't read the second post in this thread. This thread is about first world problems. Regardless, if I was to go and work in Kenya, then I would be earning a few dollars a day like anyone else. It is enough to give you what you need in the environment you are in. Nobody is dying in the millions because of poverty there.
3. I was not Born in the USA. I am not Bruce Springsteen. However, though it is true that someone born poor is unable to suddenly produce a million dollars, there is no reason why someone cannot save a portion of their income and invest it wisely thus giving themselves a greater cushion in life. I worked for a low wage in the UK, but where did it go? On fun. Have less fun and, hey presto, you save money on a low wage! Amazing right?
4. You say there is no social mobility, but with good guidance any smart person can do something that pays reasonably well. Forget dreams of millions of dollars like Beyonce, but a real life in the here and now and people can be vets, doctors, teachers, scientists, fitness instructors. These are not all the realm of the super elite. But you do need discipline, guidance and smarts!
5. This is where I think broken families and a lack of role models is the biggest issue and that is on parents to display RESPONSIBILITY towards those they bring into the world.
6. Yes, I do think the bulk of poor people remain so as a choice. Certainly in the West.
7. See, you are citing billionaires. Those are not good examples as they are the exceptions rather than the norm. I am talking about the real world that we can all inhabit and why people choose to be poor. Of course most people are not going to become the new Bill Gates. That does not mean a working class person cannot become comfortable and live a middle class lifestyle with good decisions though. Compounding is not complicated, put 20 pounds a week away from the age of 18 and it will compound. You won't become a twat like Zuckerberg, but you will have more than the many who didn't do that. Decisions.
8. No, in the UK no race is more advantaged than any other race legally, but personal decisions are another matter and that is where inequality comes from. It is one of the most racially tolerant places in the world.
9. I am naturally smart, so obviously I have no issues passing courses, interviews and things of this nature. I don't feel my poverty ever held me back beyond not making better decisions sooner, having emotional damage, and lacking guidance earlier. If I could do it all again, I would be in medicine now. Broken families are a hurdle for ANYONE.
10. No, the average drug dealer would likely not be a great CEO. If he wanted to though he could take a business course and maybe try and get into a company like other people do. A clean criminal record would help for the interview process.
11. What is this white privilege that I have? I know a black person in the same position as me. Paid the same, treated the same. Seems pretty equal and based on ability to me.
12. I want no sympathy at all as I do not stay poor, bank each month, and have all I need. Didn't even need to sell drugs, but I guess that is because of my privilege.

Pull yourself together, Dennis. We will help you get a job, give you investment advice, and get you through. Not all white men are out to get you.

[Gandalf]

And why does Denilson get a pass on saying that black people are poor? Do black people get a free pass on the offensive stakes?

[Fenster]

Miles, those teenage drug dealers earn more in a day than you do a month. You are a mere pauper to them, your everyman, ordinary 9-to-5 lifestyle pathetic. However hard you work you'll never experience the extravagance, adoration and power of Beyonce's, 2-Pac's and Boris Johnson's.

[p4pking]

That is so decked out, that my granny paid me 15 an hour in 2001 to paint it myself.

[Gandalf]

Miles, those teenage drug dealers earn more in a day than you do a month. You are a mere pauper to them, your everyman, ordinary 9-to-5 lifestyle pathetic. However hard you work you'll never experience the extravagance, adoration and power of Beyonce's, 2-Pac's and Boris Johnson's.

How offensive. 9-5? Never.

I am in competition with nobody nor even trying to get rich. I am just asking why people choose to be poor. Sure a drug dealer can get very rich, but there is also a good chance of going to prison or getting stabbed too. Probably better to not go down that route. Not many drug dealers where I am and a jolly good thing it is too. It is not looked upon too fondly and it is great for society.

[Dia bando]

And why does Denilson get a pass on saying that black people are poor? Do black people get a free pass on the offensive stakes?

Double standards of course mate the PC warriors outraged that someone speaks out
Miles fancy speaking you mind watch your Ps and Q's the fear of being called a racist
I totally agree the Black racist carrys on with impunity why because of fear everybody being classed as a bigot racist etc.
You live your Life you choose a path I know a few people who did not have the best upbringing but they went on to adult education and made something of themselves.
Trouble is with poverty people love to bragg how poor they are !!

[Dark Lord Al]

And why does Denilson get a pass on saying that black people are poor? Do black people get a free pass on the offensive stakes?

Double standards of course mate the PC warriors outraged that someone speaks out
Miles fancy speaking you mind watch your Ps and Q's the fear of being called a racist
I totally agree the Black racist carrys on with impunity why because of fear everybody being classed as a bigot racist etc.
You live your Life you choose a path I know a few people who did not have the best upbringing but they went on to adult education and made something of themselves.
Trouble is with poverty people love to bragg how poor they are !!

Nobody takes what Denise says seriously.
He is a worthless peasant who has been brainwashed by the death cult.
Little man , little victim.
Fucking boo hoo.

[Gandalf]

And why does Denilson get a pass on saying that black people are poor? Do black people get a free pass on the offensive stakes?

Double standards of course mate the PC warriors outraged that someone speaks out
Miles fancy speaking you mind watch your Ps and Q's the fear of being called a racist
I totally agree the Black racist carrys on with impunity why because of fear everybody being classed as a bigot racist etc.
You live your Life you choose a path I know a few people who did not have the best upbringing but they went on to adult education and made something of themselves.
Trouble is with poverty people love to bragg how poor they are !!

Nobody takes what Denise says seriously.
He is a worthless peasant who has been brainwashed by the death cult.
Little man , little victim.
Fucking boo hoo.

Would you be willing to donate a fiver to the slave reparation fund and send him back to Nigeria?

[Dark Lord Al]

And why does Denilson get a pass on saying that black people are poor? Do black people get a free pass on the offensive stakes?

Double standards of course mate the PC warriors outraged that someone speaks out
Miles fancy speaking you mind watch your Ps and Q's the fear of being called a racist
I totally agree the Black racist carrys on with impunity why because of fear everybody being classed as a bigot racist etc.
You live your Life you choose a path I know a few people who did not have the best upbringing but they went on to adult education and made something of themselves.
Trouble is with poverty people love to bragg how poor they are !!

Nobody takes what Denise says seriously.
He is a worthless peasant who has been brainwashed by the death cult.
Little man , little victim.
Fucking boo hoo.

Would you be willing to donate a fiver to the slave reparation fund and send him back to Nigeria?

No , I wouldn't give him the steam off my poss.

[Gandalf]

And why does Denilson get a pass on saying that black people are poor? Do black people get a free pass on the offensive stakes?

Double standards of course mate the PC warriors outraged that someone speaks out
Miles fancy speaking you mind watch your Ps and Q's the fear of being called a racist
I totally agree the Black racist carrys on with impunity why because of fear everybody being classed as a bigot racist etc.
You live your Life you choose a path I know a few people who did not have the best upbringing but they went on to adult education and made something of themselves.
Trouble is with poverty people love to bragg how poor they are !!

I don't mind him being a complete racist, but it was funny that he was the one saying black people are poor to begin with and me saying it was choice was apparently the very devilish thing to do. I just think people do happen to have some agency over their lives. Exactly people from poor beginnings can and often do just fine. On the flip side many do not. It is about choices at the end of the day.

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

I've only tried to answer the questions that I've not answered b4.

1. I have been called racist a number of times, but don't really care. I will stand by data and science and if that is thought crime, then I take it on the chin, bad boy.

Of course if your in a system of white supremacy, a system of racism, then your always going to need some kind of scientific rationale to justify that system. That's why white supremacist are always running around trying to prove how stupid black ppl are (Bell Curve) and trying to prove how violent black people are.

But if you think science can settle moral questions, you need only look at the differing scientific opinions over climate change, or evolution to see how wrong your assumptions can be.

If you rest your claim on scientific knowledge and then the scientific knowledge changes, you are duty bound to change morality. No ?

2. You didn't read the second post in this thread. This thread is about first world problems. Regardless, if I was to go and work in Kenya, then I would be earning a few dollars a day like anyone else.

"First World" ? Even using those words shows how deeply soaked you are in a white supremacist world view.

You have a choice if you wanted to work in Kenya earning a few dollars. Local Ppl earning a few dollars in Kenya don't have that choice.

That's the difference.

They can't hop on a plane when sh*t get's too heavy and go to bk to your world like the way you can.

It is enough to give you what you need in the environment you are in. Nobody is dying in the millions because of poverty there.

People don't die from poverty in Kenya ?

Really ?



There should be no-one dying of poverty and hunger any where on the planet. None. Zero

It’s the scorched earth shit. They (the white supremacist) fk up the water over there. They fk up the earth so they cant grow anything and then and then give them a bag of rice in exchange for a bag of diamonds.

The mobile phone or I-phone you have in your pocket, or laptop would not even work without Congolese coltan

And who do you think mines that ? Yup black Africans.



Who controls Coltan deposits over there ? Apple (The biggest company in the world)

Africa has the biggest stores of

• Gold and diamonds
• Oil
• Cocoa
• Timber

Not to mention Iron, Platinum, Uranium, Chromium. Even Cement is exported from Egypt and Morocco. Also Africa is one of the most diverse geological continents.

The African countries are held hostage through debt. The debt payback is done by getting more resources at low prices. Meanwhile local infrastructures are crumbling, social programmes and local developments are cut because of the paybacks.

The debt relief comes with a price. The African resource producing countries have to sell everything for a special discount price which opens the doors to all sorts of speculations from foreign investors demanding high returns.

Another by-product the west is expecting from their ‘generous gestures’ is to get positive votes at the next UN assembly. Any African who goes against it ? They threaten the local authorities to pull their funds out or threaten them to initiate another government turnover.

3. I was not Born in the USA.

And that means what ? White supremacy is global.

I am not Bruce Springsteen.

What has Springsteen got to do with anything ?

4. You say there is no social mobility, but with good guidance any smart person can do something that pays reasonably well. Forget dreams of millions of dollars like Beyonce, but a real life in the here and now and people can be vets, doctors, teachers, scientists, fitness instructors. These are not all the realm of the super elite. But you do need discipline, guidance and smarts!

But in order to become a vets, doctors, teachers, scientists and less so a fitness instructors you need an education and education is part of the system of white supremacy.

Black kids are punished more harshly than white kids for minor behavioral infractions, even if they commit those infractions no more frequently than whites.

Black children are tracked into basic and remedial level classes while white kids are tracked into advanced and honors classes (whether or not they show promise and even sometimes quite a bit less)

Why are predominantly Black school districts are under-funded ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts under-staffed with inexperienced teachers ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts denied books ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts denied microscopes and other lab equipment ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts always have hazardous waste near by black schools ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts always have to cut art and music classes, sports teams and sometimes hot meals in a cafeteria ?

Answer = Because we live in system of white supremacy.

And even when black people do navigate our way through all that B.S, black grads are still less likely than whites to get a job, still paid less, still less likely for career advancement

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

5. This is where I think broken families and a lack of role models is the biggest issue and that is on parents to display RESPONSIBILITY towards those they bring into the world.

Once again. Barack Obama did not have kids out of wedlock. He was a good father. That did not stop the white supremacists from coming after him

Illegitimacy has been rising across the West. In France and Sweden, for example, most children are no longer born to married women. That is a sea change in Western society that goes way beyond Black America.



The birth rate among unmarried Black women has been dropping since the early 90's – meaning that they are acting more responsibly, not less. The reason the illegitimacy rate goes up is because the birth rate among married Black women has been dropping even faster, something that has been going on since the 1950s.



Also an illegitimate birth tells you nothing about whether the mother lives with the father or gets married later, just as a legitimate birth tells you nothing about divorce, separation or incarceration.

8. No, in the UK no race is more advantaged than any other race legally, but personal decisions are another matter and that is where inequality comes from. It is one of the most racially tolerant places in the

Does racism exist ? Because if you are saying that "no race is more advantaged than any other race" then your saying that racism does not exist. Right ? Because the whole point of white supremacy is to give white a head start.

9. I am naturally smart, so obviously I have no issues passing courses, interviews and things of this nature.

"I'm naturally smart" Get over yourself (lol)

Because when you sought admission to a university, applied for a job, went for an interview, almost all of the people who evaluated you for those things looked like you, they were white. They saw in you a reflection of themselves, and in a racist world that is an advantage. You smiled. You are white. You were one of them. You were not dangerous. Even when you got angry, you were cut some slack. After all, your white. White privilege has meant that scores of second-rate white ppl have slid through the system because their flaws were overlooked out of solidarity based on race.

11. What is this white privilege that I have? I know a black person in the same position as me. Paid the same, treated the same. Seems pretty equal and based on ability to me.

White privilege works in 3 ways

1) Material (greater opportunity in the labor market, or greater net worth, due to a history in which whites had the ability to accumulate wealth to a greater extent than blk ppl)
2) Social (such as presumptions of competence, creditworthiness, law-abidingness, intelligence)
3) Psychological (not having to worry about triggering negative stereotypes, rarely having to feel out of place, not having to worry about racial profiling, etc.).

White privilege is the flipside of discrimination against black people.

If you are saying white privilege does not exist, then you must also say racism does not exist

There can be no down without an up

If black people are the targets of discrimination, in housing, employment, the justice system, or elsewhere, then whites, by definition, are being elevated above those black ppl.

12. I want no sympathy at all as I do not stay poor, bank each month, and have all I need. Didn't even need to sell drugs, but I guess that is because of my privilege.

Yes it is.

Pull yourself together, Dennis. We will help you get a job, give you investment advice, and get you through. Not all white men are out to get you.

Denilson is doing very ok. In fact if you knew what I do and how much money I earn..... I'd shock the pants off you.

But I also know that the white supremacist could take everything I have away from me if they wanted. So I don't get fooled by my money. I understand I live in a system of white supremacy

[Gandalf]

LOL, will respond to that salad later! But I am having a good chuckle. Do you honestly believe half of this stuff? It is like X being a supremacist. You don't seem to know me ery well. I haven't been interviewed by a white person in about 20 years. Later, Dennis. Ever wonder why I clock off at this time. No white supremacists where I am. 🙄

[TitoFan]

Denilson has hit the mother lode with you, Miles.

You make some good points, but as I've said before, the way you go about it makes you an easy target for someone like Denilson, who believes (unless it's a huge windup persona) 100% of white people are racists.

Moderate viewpoints usually make for short, boring arguments..... but extreme viewpoints are just the opposite.

I know you don't like being called racist, and I'll abstain from calling you that. But you've got some beliefs ingrained in you that could easily provide (and does) cannon fodder for not only Denilson, but someone like Beanz as well.

Beanz is ultra PC, which makes him clash with me on the transgender issue. So naturally he's going to take offense with some of your broadbrush comments.

That YouTube you posted with the Japanese pimple-faced idiot trying to ban blacks in Japan has stayed with me. That you even posted that and gave it an audience was very disappointing, as all it does is propagate negative stereotypes that do no one any good.



I try to be as clear as possible. If you say there's an overpopulation problem, I agree with you. It makes no sense to me for women to spit out dozens of babies in countries without enough food to feed those who are already born.

If you say there's a huge single mother problem which only propagates the poor, government handout dependent population..... I'll agree with that also. My only qualifier is that it cuts across racial and ethnic lines. The government is a lot to blame.

When you say some people choose to be poor, I know what you're trying to say and it's a bit coarse. But by making life choices like spitting out kids like hamsters ("let the government take care of us"), many single women choose their lifestyle.

Kids naturally struggle to escape that reality and that vicious cycle.


Governments should do a COMPLETE OVERHAUL of welfare and handout systems. EVERYWHERE. As with many other government programs, the thought and effort put into these programs is barely TOKEN and gotten out of the way as quickly as possible so these corrupt, inept legislators can move on to their next empty promise.


Anyway, Denilson will continue thinking as he does (unless it's been all a huge, giant chain-pulling exercise) until maturity sets in around his late 40's or 50's.

[Beanz]

Denilson has hit the mother lode with you, Miles.

You make some good points, but as I've said before, the way you go about it makes you an easy target for someone like Denilson, who believes (unless it's a huge windup persona) 100% of white people are racists.

Moderate viewpoints usually make for short, boring arguments..... but extreme viewpoints are just the opposite.

I know you don't like being called racist, and I'll abstain from calling you that. But you've got some beliefs ingrained in you that could easily provide (and does) cannon fodder for not only Denilson, but someone like Beanz as well.

Beanz is ultra PC, which makes him clash with me on the transgender issue. So naturally he's going to take offense with some of your broadbrush comments.

That YouTube you posted with the Japanese pimple-faced idiot trying to ban blacks in Japan has stayed with me. That you even posted that and gave it an audience was very disappointing, as all it does is propagate negative stereotypes that do no one any good.



I try to be as clear as possible. If you say there's an overpopulation problem, I agree with you. It makes no sense to me for women to spit out dozens of babies in countries without enough food to feed those who are already born.

If you say there's a huge single mother problem which only propagates the poor, government handout dependent population..... I'll agree with that also. My only qualifier is that it cuts across racial and ethnic lines. The government is a lot to blame.

When you say some people choose to be poor, I know what you're trying to say and it's a bit coarse. But by making life choices like spitting out kids like hamsters ("let the government take care of us"), many single women choose their lifestyle.

Kids naturally struggle to escape that reality and that vicious cycle.


Governments should do a COMPLETE OVERHAUL of welfare and handout systems. EVERYWHERE. As with many other government programs, the thought and effort put into these programs is barely TOKEN and gotten out of the way as quickly as possible so these corrupt, inept legislators can move on to their next empty promise.


Anyway, Denilson will continue thinking as he does (unless it's been all a huge, giant chain-pulling exercise) until maturity sets in around his late 40's or 50's.

How on earth am I ultra PC?

Don't buy into the propaganda and bullshit. The sad truth is that Gandalf is not very different from Denilson at all. He is like Denilson wedded to an idealogy that prevents hims from seeing things objectively or engaging with any kind of rationality or sophistication.

Gandalf has only ever had to worry about Gandalf so it is hardly surprising the bloke has had an empathy bypass but that does not explain his deeply held belief that anyone who is not as fortunate (in fact anyone more fortunate too) as him deserve whatever happens to them. If he was religious one could possibly understand and it would likely be a bit more balanced and nuanced.

The fact is that actually he is not so different, hence his thinking all these YouTube celebrities are his saviour.

The truth is we do not live in a perfect or fair meritocracy, even in the west. There are plenty of responsible hard working people who are poor through no fault of their own. Of course there are lazy people who could do more to change their circumstances but to suggest that is some kind of default behaviour with which you can describe all or the majority of poor people is astonishingly stupid. It is a commonly known phenomenon and you do not have to be a psychologist to understand or have seen people use it. The lazy person on welfare who will say that the family next door are terribly slothful, and the trust fund kid who will make the same accusation of laziness to some guy who may have only been unemployed for a short time, having worked for the rest of his life.

The truth is we all want to believe that we got where we are through some kind of unique blend of effort and innate qualities. The whole system we live under perpetuates that myth. You must know, more than many others though, how simplistic that kind of thinking is. Just as a natural disaster can destroy homes and businesses, with no regard to who is lazy and hard working, who is talented and motivated, and those who lack initiative and a work ethic, so can a myriad realities of life. Disability, sickness, death, accidents, mental health breakdowns, economic collapse, employers closing down, all affect not just one person but families, communities and even countries. This is nothing a teenager could fail to understand. So it is quite rational to conclude that what motivates Gandalf to declare that Black people, or anyone else choose to be poor, is an irrational ideology. An ideology that gives him some false sense of superiority and entitlement.

Sure effort, planning, application and a good dose of luck help, but where we are born, to whom we are born, and a whole lifetime of random events have just as much of an impact on how far from poverty we really are.

I don't really believe in fate or karma in a religious sense but I would not want to be in the shoes of someone tempting disaster with talk of how the majority of people in a worse off position than myself deserve to be there. That kind of thinking automatically makes you a ripe target for those selling you the lie that racism is scientific, and an apologist for a ridiculous inequality gap that praises huge corporations and individual billionaires, that profit by not only making poor people poorer, but actually stealing natural resources from them.

I am happy not to be such a cynical entitled boring bastard.