Genuine Question: Why do people stay poor?

[TitoFan]

Denilson has hit the mother lode with you, Miles.

You make some good points, but as I've said before, the way you go about it makes you an easy target for someone like Denilson, who believes (unless it's a huge windup persona) 100% of white people are racists.

Moderate viewpoints usually make for short, boring arguments..... but extreme viewpoints are just the opposite.

I know you don't like being called racist, and I'll abstain from calling you that. But you've got some beliefs ingrained in you that could easily provide (and does) cannon fodder for not only Denilson, but someone like Beanz as well.

Beanz is ultra PC, which makes him clash with me on the transgender issue. So naturally he's going to take offense with some of your broadbrush comments.

That YouTube you posted with the Japanese pimple-faced idiot trying to ban blacks in Japan has stayed with me. That you even posted that and gave it an audience was very disappointing, as all it does is propagate negative stereotypes that do no one any good.



I try to be as clear as possible. If you say there's an overpopulation problem, I agree with you. It makes no sense to me for women to spit out dozens of babies in countries without enough food to feed those who are already born.

If you say there's a huge single mother problem which only propagates the poor, government handout dependent population..... I'll agree with that also. My only qualifier is that it cuts across racial and ethnic lines. The government is a lot to blame.

When you say some people choose to be poor, I know what you're trying to say and it's a bit coarse. But by making life choices like spitting out kids like hamsters ("let the government take care of us"), many single women choose their lifestyle.

Kids naturally struggle to escape that reality and that vicious cycle.


Governments should do a COMPLETE OVERHAUL of welfare and handout systems. EVERYWHERE. As with many other government programs, the thought and effort put into these programs is barely TOKEN and gotten out of the way as quickly as possible so these corrupt, inept legislators can move on to their next empty promise.


Anyway, Denilson will continue thinking as he does (unless it's been all a huge, giant chain-pulling exercise) until maturity sets in around his late 40's or 50's.

How on earth am I ultra PC?

Don't buy into the propaganda and bullshit. The sad truth is that Gandalf is not very different from Denilson at all. He is like Denilson wedded to an idealogy that prevents hims from seeing things objectively or engaging with any kind of rationality or sophistication.

Gandalf has only ever had to worry about Gandalf so it is hardly surprising the bloke has had an empathy bypass but that does not explain his deeply held belief that anyone who is not as fortunate (in fact anyone more fortunate too) as him deserve whatever happens to them. If he was religious one could possibly understand and it would likely be a bit more balanced and nuanced.

The fact is that actually he is not so different, hence his thinking all these YouTube celebrities are his saviour.

The truth is we do not live in a perfect or fair meritocracy, even in the west. There are plenty of responsible hard working people who are poor through no fault of their own. Of course there are lazy people who could do more to change their circumstances but to suggest that is some kind of default behaviour with which you can describe all or the majority of poor people is astonishingly stupid. It is a commonly known phenomenon and you do not have to be a psychologist to understand or have seen people use it. The lazy person on welfare who will say that the family next door are terribly slothful, and the trust fund kid who will make the same accusation of laziness to some guy who may have only been unemployed for a short time, having worked for the rest of his life.

The truth is we all want to believe that we got where we are through some kind of unique blend of effort and innate qualities. The whole system we live under perpetuates that myth. You must know, more than many others though, how simplistic that kind of thinking is. Just as a natural disaster can destroy homes and businesses, with no regard to who is lazy and hard working, who is talented and motivated, and those who lack initiative and a work ethic, so can a myriad realities of life. Disability, sickness, death, accidents, mental health breakdowns, economic collapse, employers closing down, all affect not just one person but families, communities and even countries. This is nothing a teenager could fail to understand. So it is quite rational to conclude that what motivates Gandalf to declare that Black people, or anyone else choose to be poor, is an irrational ideology. An ideology that gives him some false sense of superiority and entitlement.

Sure effort, planning, application and a good dose of luck help, but where we are born, to whom we are born, and a whole lifetime of random events have just as much of an impact on how far from poverty we really are.

I don't really believe in fate or karma in a religious sense but I would not want to be in the shoes of someone tempting disaster with talk of how the majority of people in a worse off position than myself deserve to be there. That kind of thinking automatically makes you a ripe target for those selling you the lie that racism is scientific, and an apologist for a ridiculous inequality gap that praises huge corporations and individual billionaires, that profit by not only making poor people poorer, but actually stealing natural resources from them.

I am happy not to be such a cynical entitled boring bastard.

100% agree with this statement. Having survived the catastrophe that was Hurricane Maria, I've seen firsthand how something like that can turn a neighborhood.... a city.... a whole island upside down. Thousands of lives were lost (not the 60-some claimed by Trump)..... infrastructure was shattered.... ways of life were upended. Less than two years later I've personally seen stories of triumph and resilience..... just as I have seen wallowing and "woe is me" attitudes. The other "myriad realities of life" of course include catastrophic illnesses, and personal tragedies that are hard to recover from.

All my life I've resisted lumping people together based on race, ethnic groups, or sexual preferences. I do however, take stands where I feel it's appropriate....... and that inevitably always ends up rubbing some people the wrong way.

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

Denilson has hit the mother lode with you, Miles

White Supremacist supporting each other.

You make some good points

Sorry to bust in on your love in with Miles. But of course he makes some good points. Because I suspect that he's white supremacist. Just as I suspect that you are and white supremacist tend to agree with each other.

but as I've said before, the way you go about it makes you an easy target for someone like Denilson

All you are saying to miles is "talk in code" "Don't say black people are stupid. Say blacks have a lower IQ" "Don't say black people are violent. Quote FBI crime stats"

who believes (unless it's a huge windup persona) 100% of white people are racists.

Yes I suspect that a 100% of white people are racist. That means, like you are doing, that you are seeing things in a way that favour your own race and I'm not mad at you. I expect that.

I believe that all white people raised in a society where racism has been and still is so prevalent will have internalized elements of racist thinking: certain beliefs, stereotypes, assumptions, and judgments about others and themselves.

So in countries where beliefs in European/white superiority and domination have been historically placed, everyone in such places will have soaked up some of that conditioning.

I've never said white people evil. I never said that white people hate black people.

I know you don't like being called racist, and I'll abstain from calling you that. But you've got some beliefs ingrained in you that could easily provide (and does) cannon fodder for not only Denilson, but someone like Beanz as well.

Notice more white supremacist love in.

Less than 22% of the world is white.
Less than 11% of the world is white and male.
Less than 2.3% of the world is white, male and speaks English.

Yet they run the BBC, CNN, the New York Times, Harvard, Penguin, Oxford and Cambridge, Facebook, Twitter. They write most of the Hollywood films. They write most Wikipedia articles. English-speaking white men own and run nearly all the main bits of the Vast Talking Machine.

The white English speaking male POV is often taken as the truth.

That's why when I come here with a different perspective from the white supremacist viewpoint that you think, you find what I say crazy.

Many people in the world learn most of what they know about the world at large from English-speaking white men, from 2.2% of that world, a 2.2% that has a white supremacy view on things. This is a warning against being overly dependent on any one part of the world for your knowledge of the world as a whole.

Anyway, Denilson will continue thinking as he does (unless it's been all a huge, giant chain-pulling exercise) until maturity sets in around his late 40's or 50's.

Many black people think like me. My brothers, My fathers, My friends.

But let me be clear on something.

I'm not trying to persuade you or anyone in Saddo

This is where you fking up. You're thinking I'm trying to persuade you and others and then fault me for the way I go about it.

Once again.

I'm not trying to persuade you or anyone in Saddo

To persuade people. You need three things:

1. Gain the reader’s trust.
2. Appeal to the head.
3. Appeal to the heart.

Hitler said you just need the last. In any case, my style of writing in regard to whites lacks the first and the last. So it will not persuade most of them because persuading whites to give up the benefits of racism, to become outcasts from white society, to face their shame and guilt at benefiting from a racist society – all that is way, way, way beyond my powers.

I write about white people and racism for my own understanding.

And bear in mind. I don't start these racialized topics in saddo.

And here's the really fked up thing

You expect me (A black man) to write to white supremacist point of view.

As if there are not enough people doing that already.

That my posts are such an affront to you speaks VOLUMES about the racism you posses, where even a single small instance of contrary opinions are a threat to you. And causes you to erupt like a hilarious volcano.

[Dia bando]

Keith are you not a racist.?

[TitoFan]

You predictably lost control of yourself as totally evidenced by your latest comments. But it's not just my opinion. It's all there in black and white for all to see. You began making a token attempt at being coherent and..... when you found you were dealing with a mature adult..... you've reverted back to your snide comments, lacking any logic with which to defend your laughable beliefs.

Denilson has hit the mother lode with you, Miles

White Supremacist supporting each other.

Not worth responding to.

You make some good points

Sorry to bust in on your love in with Miles. But of course he makes some good points. Because I suspect that he's white supremacist. Just as I suspect that you are and white supremacist tend to agree with each other.

(See above). I'd only add that you use the word "suspect" a lot, which of course gives you an "out" whenever reality sets in and you look back in horror at all the nonsense you've posted.

but as I've said before, the way you go about it makes you an easy target for someone like Denilson

All you are saying to miles is "talk in code" "Don't say black people are stupid. Say blacks have a lower IQ" "Don't say black people are violent. Quote FBI crime stats"


I appreciate your efforts in trying to translate what I'm "saying to Miles". Fortunately for both of us, I have a perfect grasp of the English language, and I tend to not talk in "double speak." I got something to say...... I say it.

who believes (unless it's a huge windup persona) 100% of white people are racists.

Yes I suspect that a 100% of white people are racist. That means, like you are doing, that you are seeing things in a way that favour your own race and I'm not mad at you. I expect that.

No..... of course you're not mad. Why would anybody be mad at a whole race they SUSPECT of feeling 100% superior to your own? No...... you're above that.

I believe that all MANY white people raised in a society where racism has been and still is so prevalent will have internalized elements of racist thinking: certain beliefs, stereotypes, assumptions, and judgments about others and themselves.

Now you're close to making a little sense, but I fixed it up for you a little bit. You've long ago made up your mind about me without even knowing me, but I don't make that same mistake. I'll gladly contribute to your maturation process.

So in countries where beliefs in European/white superiority and domination have been historically placed, everyone many people in such places will have soaked up some of that conditioning.

Same as above. No charge.

I've never said white people evil. I never said that white people hate black people.

No.... it just oozes out of every sentence you write. If you supposedly think so highly of white people, you're being very contradictory by thinking they're so naive they're gonna believe bullshit like those last two sentences.

I know you don't like being called racist, and I'll abstain from calling you that. But you've got some beliefs ingrained in you that could easily provide (and does) cannon fodder for not only Denilson, but someone like Beanz as well.

Notice more white supremacist love in.

Another comment that does not deserve a response. But no..... you don't hate white people.

Less than 22% of the world is white.
Less than 11% of the world is white and male.
Less than 2.3% of the world is white, male and speaks English.

Yet they run the BBC, CNN, the New York Times, Harvard, Penguin, Oxford and Cambridge, Facebook, Twitter. They write most of the Hollywood films. They write most Wikipedia articles. English-speaking white men own and run nearly all the main bits of the Vast Talking Machine.

The white English speaking male POV is often taken as the truth.

That's why when I come here with a different perspective from the white supremacist viewpoint that you think, you find what I say crazy.

Many people in the world learn most of what they know about the world at large from English-speaking white men, from 2.2% of that world, a 2.2% that has a white supremacy view on things. This is a warning against being overly dependent on any one part of the world for your knowledge of the world as a whole.

Anyway, Denilson will continue thinking as he does (unless it's been all a huge, giant chain-pulling exercise) until maturity sets in around his late 40's or 50's.

Many black people think like me. My brothers, My fathers, My friends.

But let me be clear on something.

I'm not trying to persuade you or anyone in Saddo

This is where you fking up. You're thinking I'm trying to persuade you and others and then fault me for the way I go about it.

Once again.

I'm not trying to persuade you or anyone in Saddo

To persuade people. You need three things:

1. Gain the reader’s trust.
2. Appeal to the head.
3. Appeal to the heart.

Hitler said you just need the last. In any case, my style of writing in regard to whites lacks the first and the last. So it will not persuade most of them because persuading whites to give up the benefits of racism, to become outcasts from white society, to face their shame and guilt at benefiting from a racist society – all that is way, way, way beyond my powers.

I write about white people and racism for my own understanding.

And bear in mind. I don't start these racialized topics in saddo.

And here's the really fked up thing

You expect me (A black man) to write to white supremacist point of view.

As if there are not enough people doing that already.

That my posts are such an affront to you speaks VOLUMES about the racism you posses, where even a single small instance of contrary opinions are a threat to you. And causes you to erupt like a hilarious volcano.

At some point the best of us will lose interest in trying to rehabilitate you. Your youth is no excuse either, as I've known plenty of 20 and 30-year olds who would run rings around you in maturity and emotional intelligence.

So the rest of the comments in your post will go unanswered simply because at some point the amusement stops and the annoyance begins.

If you still feel and express yourself the same way in 20 or 30 years from now, you will have lived a sad, miserable little life.

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

LOL, will respond to that salad later! But I am having a good chuckle.

I take jokes of white supremacists very seriously.

This guy Jeremy Christian was throwing up these hand signs as a "joke" & a week later he killed 2 ppl



All white supremacist policies start off as jokes FIRST

Do you honestly believe half of this stuff?

I could say the same about you.

Your talking points sound good when your around your buddies. They sound good when no-one is there to call you out.

Genocides unfold in eight stages. Stopping it at any one stage, stops the genocide from going forward.

Racism grows and feeds off a culture of silence. The point of calling out racism is to break down that silence. That's why I ALWAYS-ALWAYS call it out.

It does not matter if you persuade anyone. What matters is that you were heard and planted that seed in people’s minds of, “Hey, maybe this is not right"

Elizabeth Eckford was one of the first black students to go to Little Rock Central High School in the American South (And bear in mind she was from a two parent family. Once again - Did the white supremacist lay of her because of that ?)



That school was a hell for her because the 90% who were not giving her hell would not stand up to the 10% who were.

Calling out racism matters more when it comes from whites.

Because everyone thinks white people are way more objective and neutral about racism than blacks. That's the Tim Wise Effect.

Black people calling out racism ? Well - Whites and others generally discount what blacks say, it is part of their cultural conditioning, but they still hear it. They hear what we say and, just as important, what we don't say. If something racist goes down and blacks say nothing ? Whites will assume that it's “not so bad”. Especially since many whites assume blacks are “oversensitive”.

You don't seem to know me ery well.

I don't need to and I don't want to if you want the truth

I haven't been interviewed by a white person in about 20 years.

Now that's a 100% lie

[walrus]

I've only tried to answer the questions that I've not answered b4.

1. I have been called racist a number of times, but don't really care. I will stand by data and science and if that is thought crime, then I take it on the chin, bad boy.

Of course if your in a system of white supremacy, a system of racism, then your always going to need some kind of scientific rationale to justify that system. That's why white supremacist are always running around trying to prove how stupid black ppl are (Bell Curve) and trying to prove how violent black people are.

But if you think science can settle moral questions, you need only look at the differing scientific opinions over climate change, or evolution to see how wrong your assumptions can be.

If you rest your claim on scientific knowledge and then the scientific knowledge changes, you are duty bound to change morality. No ?

2. You didn't read the second post in this thread. This thread is about first world problems. Regardless, if I was to go and work in Kenya, then I would be earning a few dollars a day like anyone else.

"First World" ? Even using those words shows how deeply soaked you are in a white supremacist world view.

You have a choice if you wanted to work in Kenya earning a few dollars. Local Ppl earning a few dollars in Kenya don't have that choice.

That's the difference.

They can't hop on a plane when sh*t get's too heavy and go to bk to your world like the way you can.

It is enough to give you what you need in the environment you are in. Nobody is dying in the millions because of poverty there.

People don't die from poverty in Kenya ?

Really ?



There should be no-one dying of poverty and hunger any where on the planet. None. Zero

It’s the scorched earth shit. They (the white supremacist) fk up the water over there. They fk up the earth so they cant grow anything and then and then give them a bag of rice in exchange for a bag of diamonds.

The mobile phone or I-phone you have in your pocket, or laptop would not even work without Congolese coltan

And who do you think mines that ? Yup black Africans.



Who controls Coltan deposits over there ? Apple (The biggest company in the world)

Africa has the biggest stores of

• Gold and diamonds
• Oil
• Cocoa
• Timber

Not to mention Iron, Platinum, Uranium, Chromium. Even Cement is exported from Egypt and Morocco. Also Africa is one of the most diverse geological continents.

The African countries are held hostage through debt. The debt payback is done by getting more resources at low prices. Meanwhile local infrastructures are crumbling, social programmes and local developments are cut because of the paybacks.

The debt relief comes with a price. The African resource producing countries have to sell everything for a special discount price which opens the doors to all sorts of speculations from foreign investors demanding high returns.

Another by-product the west is expecting from their ‘generous gestures’ is to get positive votes at the next UN assembly. Any African who goes against it ? They threaten the local authorities to pull their funds out or threaten them to initiate another government turnover.

3. I was not Born in the USA.

And that means what ? White supremacy is global.

I am not Bruce Springsteen.

What has Springsteen got to do with anything ?

4. You say there is no social mobility, but with good guidance any smart person can do something that pays reasonably well. Forget dreams of millions of dollars like Beyonce, but a real life in the here and now and people can be vets, doctors, teachers, scientists, fitness instructors. These are not all the realm of the super elite. But you do need discipline, guidance and smarts!

But in order to become a vets, doctors, teachers, scientists and less so a fitness instructors you need an education and education is part of the system of white supremacy.

Black kids are punished more harshly than white kids for minor behavioral infractions, even if they commit those infractions no more frequently than whites.

Black children are tracked into basic and remedial level classes while white kids are tracked into advanced and honors classes (whether or not they show promise and even sometimes quite a bit less)

Why are predominantly Black school districts are under-funded ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts under-staffed with inexperienced teachers ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts denied books ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts denied microscopes and other lab equipment ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts always have hazardous waste near by black schools ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts always have to cut art and music classes, sports teams and sometimes hot meals in a cafeteria ?

Answer = Because we live in system of white supremacy.

And even when black people do navigate our way through all that B.S, black grads are still less likely than whites to get a job, still paid less, still less likely for career advancement

So big D the Apple white supremacists own the mines. Guess again, it’s blacks keeping other blacks. You really are stupid

Various military groups have controlled the mineral deposits and exploited the local population. After the illicit coltan is relabeled and sent to legitimate smelters, it is processed and made into capacitors, and sold to electronics companies such as Apple, Samsung, IBM, Dell, Sony, Cisco, HP and a host of others.

The United Nations has a peacekeeping force of thousands in the DRC, in a region that has more than 30 armed groups, including anti-government forces, and a president who has remained beyond his term. Aside from the rebels, militias and organized crime organizations are profiting from control of coltan, foreign corporations exploit the country for its minerals without paying billions of dollars in taxes. The Friends of the Congo identified the following corporations as some of the key players in the foreign exploitation of the Congo: Cabot Corporation, OM Group, AVX, Eagle Wings Resources International, Trinitech International, Kemet Electronics Corporation, and Vishay Sprague in the U.S.; HC Starc and EPCOS (Germany); Nigncxia (China), and George Forrest International (Belgium). Neighboring countries in Central Africa participate in the exploitation as well. The organization noted that while Uganda and Rwanda have little or no coltan, their exports of the mineral increased exponentially during the military conflict in the DRC.

According to the U.N. Security Council, Burundi, Uganda and Rwanda and their proxy militias have benefited from conflict in the DRC and have engaged in “mass-scale looting” of the country’s natural resources. “Key individual actors, on the one hand, including top army commanders and businessmen, and government structures, on the other, have been the engines of that systematic and systemic exploitation,” said the Security Council in a resolution.

[Dia bando]

The poor of Africa Robert Mugabe starved his own people and he amassed a fortune and guess what other black leaders never condoned him for his actions.
In reality he could not run a bath never mind a country imagine a white leader done such a thing.
Africa is rich in natural resources and is extremely fertile but alas it is ruled by corruption .
I am 59 years old they were starving when I was a child sorry to say it in a hundred years time nothing will change.

[Gandalf]

Beanz, you continually misrepresent what I say. I think you take it personally too because you like to take things the wrong way and are poor. You wish you could have done things differently, you wish you could have seen more of the world, but you made your choices in life and there you are. You chose your poverty. You have made it clear the numerous times you have whined about selling your things and earning 25 pounds a week. You choose not to realize your potential. You think somehow the life of an artist is honest and true, but who does that really provide for at the end of the day? Thus when you see someone like me who is successful, who did have the discipline to pursue something that does help others and is fun, who does bank, who does have freedom, it triggers the hostility in you. You are a jealous, petty, spiteful little sick aging man and the clock is ticking. Tick tock.

You can rant until the sun comes up about me, but it shows I am under your skin. You think about me in the day, as you fall asleep at night. You are always thinking 'I will look for any turn of phrase I can because that gives my life meaning when I am on a 2 hour work week and frustrated'. You even send me long pm's, telling me how you are leaving only to reverse 3 days later as your life is far from full of community and joy. You are at home and need the conflict to make you feel you are doing your thing. It helps you escape the tedium that is you. You have to be at war. Thus enemies must be constructed, you lose your shit over jokes, you will rant for paragraphs over a flippant turn of phrase. If Spicoli started a thread about morning pick ips uou would have said NOTHING and you know it. You are selective, manipulative and a cunt. I caught you out on that one for giggles. I play you like a violin, Beanz.

There is nothing more to Larry. He is the frustrated little boy always the victim raised in a cult, fighting the government that he thinks owes him a living, fighting the forum bad guys, hating on the very people that told him he really did not need to leave, when a really mean person would have said 'Great, the forum is now a happier, calmer, more friendly place'. Still in a cult only a different one, but failing to see how unpopular it makes him look.

I am a bit bored with it myself if I am honest. So this is one of 3 final posts to come. I will show you how to leave a forum.

[Gandalf]

@Denilson

1. Okay, so you are now going to deny hundreds of scientific investigations. IQ is the one of the most tested aspects there is when it comes to evaluating human intelligence and behavior. Unlike evolution, or global warming, you and I can take an IQ test right now and compare scores. We can also then compare our lives. Just me and you, one on one, and come to some conclusions. Either you are smarter than me. Or else I am smarter than you. A shoot out. IQ is of course useful as an overall evaluator of races, genders, age groups, religious types typically large groups of people. If it was down to me and you it would be taking us as individuals and I prefer that approach as there are undeniably very smart black people and some very stupid white people. I am confident I can perform better than you though Denilson and it is not because you are black.

2. What does it matter if it is only a few dollars if that an buy you what you need in the environment you are in? I have a friend in Thailand who earns far less than I do. However, his money is more than enough to live well in the financial system he is in. If you live in the UK then you will earn more still, but often find it is a struggle to drink as plentifully due to the cost of a drink these days in a pub. These things are all relative Denilson. My parents in law grew up very poor, but there was always access to the cleanest organic produce. We basically had knock off tins of processed meat. All relative.

3. People die from poverty anywhere, Denilson. They die in the UK, they die in America, inevitably some will die in Kenya too. My argument is that poor people should think very carefully about having children if they are poor. Otherwise, it can be a very callous act.

4. You are happy for white south African farmers to get killed for rare minerals, but get upset when it is black people. I would suggest it is unfair in both instances. I think you are a bit of a hypocrite there Denilson.

5. Bruce Springsteen is very important to this as he has made several of the most excellent albums of the past 50 years. I know you don't like those kinds of beats, so I will move on from Bruce.

6. No, black kids are having more problems because they tend to have more environmental, family, and cultural problems. If nobody is going to encourage you to study well or if you do not have the aptitude to study well as many white and black kids indeed struggle with education then yes it will be more difficult. However, becoming a fitness instructor is not rocket science. I had a friend who became a PE teacher. I was way ahead of him in terms of academic performance, but his parents knew his limitations and guided him somewhere more practical and good for him. If you are not going to use your opportunities then that is on you and all families and children need to be aware of that. Life is not a game and you only get with hard work. Stop making excuses. Inevitably kids from broken homes are going to become more wayward and struggle thus adults need to make better relationship decisions. Always excuses with you, Denilson.

7. Underfunded, whine, whine, whine. How do you learn? You take the initiative and you read and learn. Everything you need is out there. You can learn a language with a cell phone these days, you have access to all the information you need. The school should only be the beginning of education. I tell students all the time that the classroom is only part of it. You need to study in your own time, practice and make yourself a better person. That is education. School budgets? Always excuses. If you have a teacher, two parents, and available information resources, then what else are you looking for? A free pass? Affirmative action? Get over yourself a little.

8. I was laughing at your last post because frankly you are funny. I agree with you on some things like multinational corporations exploiting countries, but on others I think you excuse a complete lack of self responsibility. The chap I sat next to in primary school is a junky with a long criminal past. It is awful of course, but it was his choice. I chose differently. Both white and that's life sometimes. We all have it rough and either you sort it out or you don't.

Two more posts to go. I wish you well Denilson and hope you get the chip off your shoulder. People do more often than not choose to be poor. If I go out partying like I was 25, I would get poor again and likely dead too. Choices.

[Gandalf]

For Denilson: Listen to this man and learn something. Good luck!

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

Let's start with this IQ thing first

1. Okay, so you are now going to deny hundreds of scientific investigations. IQ is the one of the most tested aspects there is when it comes to evaluating human intelligence and behavior. Unlike evolution, or global warming, you and I can take an IQ test right now and compare scores. We can also then compare our lives. Just me and you, one on one, and come to some conclusions. Either you are smarter than me. Or else I am smarter than you. A shoot out. IQ is of course useful as an overall evaluator of races, genders, age groups, religious types typically large groups of people. If it was down to me and you it would be taking us as individuals and I prefer that approach as there are undeniably very smart black people and some very stupid white people. I am confident I can perform better than you though Denilson and it is not because you are black.

Call me intellectually inferior all day

I don't give a sh*t about that

Listen to yourself

"Either you are smarter than me. Or else I am smarter than you. A shoot out. "

You sound like seven years old (lol)

Ok. You're smarter than me dude. Considering that seems to be so important to you. You can have it.

Because all I want to know from all you guys who are always running around trying to prove how stupid black people are is three questions :

1) If IQ is so important then why don't you drive you argument to it's logical conclusions : That is why not give all the top positions to those with the highest IQ ? Why have elections ? Why have job interviews or resumes ? Just give you all them the person with the highest IQ ?

2) If you are trying to ground IQ as a genetic product of race the very first thing you NEED to do is offer up a genetic or biological definition of race.

Something no one has not done nor has any study.

But I always, sit back, invite guys like you to me give such a definition. Mainly because their fumbling attempts to define race point out just how subjective such definitions are.

In close to 15 years of debating race and IQ and genetics.

I have yet to see any one of them, no matter what their scientific c credentials, offer up an acceptably neutral definition of race.

And finally and by far the most important question

3) What do you do with a race of black people who you are claiming are not as smart as white people (on av) ?

[Gandalf]

Let's start with this IQ thing first

1. Okay, so you are now going to deny hundreds of scientific investigations. IQ is the one of the most tested aspects there is when it comes to evaluating human intelligence and behavior. Unlike evolution, or global warming, you and I can take an IQ test right now and compare scores. We can also then compare our lives. Just me and you, one on one, and come to some conclusions. Either you are smarter than me. Or else I am smarter than you. A shoot out. IQ is of course useful as an overall evaluator of races, genders, age groups, religious types typically large groups of people. If it was down to me and you it would be taking us as individuals and I prefer that approach as there are undeniably very smart black people and some very stupid white people. I am confident I can perform better than you though Denilson and it is not because you are black.

Call me intellectually inferior all day

I don't give a sh*t about that

Listen to yourself

"Either you are smarter than me. Or else I am smarter than you. A shoot out. "

You sound like seven years old (lol)

Ok. You're smarter than me dude. Considering that seems to be so important to you. You can have it.

Because all I want to know from all you guys who are always running around trying to prove how stupid black people are is three questions :

1) If IQ is so important then why don't you drive you argument to it's logical conclusions : That is why not give all the top positions to those with the highest IQ ? Why have elections ? Why have job interviews or resumes ? Just give you all them the person with the highest IQ ?

2) If you are trying to ground IQ as a genetic product of race the very first thing you NEED to do is offer up a genetic or biological definition of race.

Something no one has not done nor has any study.

But I always, sit back, invite guys like you to me give such a definition. Mainly because their fumbling attempts to define race point out just how subjective such definitions are.

In close to 15 years of debating race and IQ and genetics.

I have yet to see any one of them, no matter what their scientific c credentials, offer up an acceptably neutral definition of race.

And finally and by far the most important question

3) What do you do with a race of black people who you are claiming are not as smart as white people (on av) ?

You had to edit your post several hours later which suggests to me off the bat that in real time I think sharper than you do. Can you show up 45 minutes late to an exam and still ace it? I know I can. Exams are mostly IQ tests. The ability to use reason, solve problems and formulate responses. It took you several hours to come up with the immaculate retort of 'are you seven'. That is my competition.

You ignored my part about there being highly intelligent black people and less intelligent white people as you are pure agenda with an enormous chip on your shoulder. Of course I would ace you on an IQ test. I would ace the vast majority of people regardless of color. I have taken enough tests to know how easy they are for me and seen enough people struggle to know others are not so adept.

Yes, I would suggest that jobs are filled based upon ability so regardless of color the most suitable person gets the job. You ignore the part about black people doing exactly the same work that I do too. They don't have your issues, Denilson. You haven't grown up yet.

I think nothing needs to be done in regards to black people but in terms of society and that is we encourage nuclear families with children planned well and provide every opportunity to learn. I agree few will become Zuckerberg and neither will you or I but you can do well. Watch the video I posted. That young black man went through just what I and other disadvantaged people have been through. It is about self responsibility.

I am supposed to be retired, but came back to give you an honest response. You can ask questions, but I am taking a break for a while. Wsit a few months and I will answer more if you like. Good luck and cheer up.

[Gandalf]

And on IQ did I say it was solely genetic? The debate is open on that, but I have argued plenty of times, I would like to believe it is more about nurturing and environment. Regardless, the data is what it is and the best way to start is with a cultural change meaning self improvement. The chap in the video certainly improved himself well enough. Watch it, you might learn something beyond your echo chamber.

[p4pking]

Let's start with this IQ thing first

1. Okay, so you are now going to deny hundreds of scientific investigations. IQ is the one of the most tested aspects there is when it comes to evaluating human intelligence and behavior. Unlike evolution, or global warming, you and I can take an IQ test right now and compare scores. We can also then compare our lives. Just me and you, one on one, and come to some conclusions. Either you are smarter than me. Or else I am smarter than you. A shoot out. IQ is of course useful as an overall evaluator of races, genders, age groups, religious types typically large groups of people. If it was down to me and you it would be taking us as individuals and I prefer that approach as there are undeniably very smart black people and some very stupid white people. I am confident I can perform better than you though Denilson and it is not because you are black.

Call me intellectually inferior all day

I don't give a sh*t about that

Listen to yourself

"Either you are smarter than me. Or else I am smarter than you. A shoot out. "

You sound like seven years old (lol)

Ok. You're smarter than me dude. Considering that seems to be so important to you. You can have it.

Because all I want to know from all you guys who are always running around trying to prove how stupid black people are is three questions :

1) If IQ is so important then why don't you drive you argument to it's logical conclusions : That is why not give all the top positions to those with the highest IQ ? Why have elections ? Why have job interviews or resumes ? Just give you all them the person with the highest IQ ?

2) If you are trying to ground IQ as a genetic product of race the very first thing you NEED to do is offer up a genetic or biological definition of race.

Something no one has not done nor has any study.

But I always, sit back, invite guys like you to me give such a definition. Mainly because their fumbling attempts to define race point out just how subjective such definitions are.

In close to 15 years of debating race and IQ and genetics.

I have yet to see any one of them, no matter what their scientific c credentials, offer up an acceptably neutral definition of race.

And finally and by far the most important question

3) What do you do with a race of black people who you are claiming are not as smart as white people (on av) ?

You had to edit your post several hours later which suggests to me off the bat that in real time I think sharper than you do. Can you show up 45 minutes late to an exam and still ace it? I know I can. Exams are mostly IQ tests. The ability to use reason, solve problems and formulate responses. It took you several hours to come up with the immaculate retort of 'are you seven'. That is my competition.

You ignored my part about there being highly intelligent black people and less intelligent white people as you are pure agenda with an enormous chip on your shoulder. Of course I would ace you on an IQ test. I would ace the vast majority of people regardless of color. I have taken enough tests to know how easy they are for me and seen enough people struggle to know others are not so adept.

Yes, I would suggest that jobs are filled based upon ability so regardless of color the most suitable person gets the job. You ignore the part about black people doing exactly the same work that I do too. They don't have your issues, Denilson. You haven't grown up yet.

I think nothing needs to be done in regards to black people but in terms of society and that is we encourage nuclear families with children planned well and provide every opportunity to learn. I agree few will become Zuckerberg and neither will you or I but you can do well. Watch the video I posted. That young black man went through just what I and other disadvantaged people have been through. It is about self responsibility.

I am supposed to be retired, but came back to give you an honest response. You can ask questions, but I am taking a break for a while. Wsit a few months and I will answer more if you like. Good luck and cheer up.

Give me 50 years and Ill still ice you, motherfucker.

[Beanz]

1. Okay, so you are now going to deny hundreds of scientific investigations. IQ is the one of the most tested aspects there is when it comes to evaluating human intelligence and behavior. Unlike evolution, or global warming, you and I can take an IQ test right now and compare scores. We can also then compare our lives. Just me and you, one on one, and come to some conclusions. Either you are smarter than me. Or else I am smarter than you. A shoot out. IQ is of course useful as an overall evaluator of races, genders, age groups, religious types typically large groups of people. If it was down to me and you it would be taking us as individuals and I prefer that approach as there are undeniably very smart black people and some very stupid white people. I am confident I can perform better than you though Denilson and it is not because you are black.

Let's start with this IQ thing first

1. Okay, so you are now going to deny hundreds of scientific investigations. IQ is the one of the most tested aspects there is when it comes to evaluating human intelligence and behavior. Unlike evolution, or global warming, you and I can take an IQ test right now and compare scores. We can also then compare our lives. Just me and you, one on one, and come to some conclusions. Either you are smarter than me. Or else I am smarter than you. A shoot out. IQ is of course useful as an overall evaluator of races, genders, age groups, religious types typically large groups of people. If it was down to me and you it would be taking us as individuals and I prefer that approach as there are undeniably very smart black people and some very stupid white people. I am confident I can perform better than you though Denilson and it is not because you are black.

Call me intellectually inferior all day

I don't give a sh*t about that

Listen to yourself

"Either you are smarter than me. Or else I am smarter than you. A shoot out. "

You sound like seven years old (lol)

Ok. You're smarter than me dude. Considering that seems to be so important to you. You can have it.

Because all I want to know from all you guys who are always running around trying to prove how stupid black people are is three questions :

1) If IQ is so important then why don't you drive you argument to it's logical conclusions : That is why not give all the top positions to those with the highest IQ ? Why have elections ? Why have job interviews or resumes ? Just give you all them the person with the highest IQ ?

2) If you are trying to ground IQ as a genetic product of race the very first thing you NEED to do is offer up a genetic or biological definition of race.

Something no one has not done nor has any study.

But I always, sit back, invite guys like you to me give such a definition. Mainly because their fumbling attempts to define race point out just how subjective such definitions are.

In close to 15 years of debating race and IQ and genetics.

I have yet to see any one of them, no matter what their scientific c credentials, offer up an acceptably neutral definition of race.

And finally and by far the most important question

3) What do you do with a race of black people who you are claiming are not as smart as white people (on av) ?

You had to edit your post several hours later which suggests to me off the bat that in real time I think sharper than you do. Can you show up 45 minutes late to an exam and still ace it? I know I can. Exams are mostly IQ tests. The ability to use reason, solve problems and formulate responses. It took you several hours to come up with the immaculate retort of 'are you seven'. That is my competition.

You ignored my part about there being highly intelligent black people and less intelligent white people as you are pure agenda with an enormous chip on your shoulder. Of course I would ace you on an IQ test. I would ace the vast majority of people regardless of color. I have taken enough tests to know how easy they are for me and seen enough people struggle to know others are not so adept.

Yes, I would suggest that jobs are filled based upon ability so regardless of color the most suitable person gets the job. You ignore the part about black people doing exactly the same work that I do too. They don't have your issues, Denilson. You haven't grown up yet.

I think nothing needs to be done in regards to black people but in terms of society and that is we encourage nuclear families with children planned well and provide every opportunity to learn. I agree few will become Zuckerberg and neither will you or I but you can do well. Watch the video I posted. That young black man went through just what I and other disadvantaged people have been through. It is about self responsibility.

I am supposed to be retired, but came back to give you an honest response. You can ask questions, but I am taking a break for a while. Wsit a few months and I will answer more if you like. Good luck and cheer up.

This is just another extension of your meritocracy delusion. For you IQ is everything because you have nothing else. It is also the go to choice for you because by any normal and reasonable measure you are not all that special. Your inability to adapt to your environment ( a much more accurate test of intelligence ) has forced you into exile hiding away in a flat drinking tea and reading books about Oscar Wilde as a substitute for having had a personality bypass.



IQ does nothing to measure the ability to ignore the cognitive bias that you clearly start any attempt at reasoning from. IQ tests are actually a very poor indicator of all round intelligence. The problem lies within the definition and like with all discussions of complexity or multi-faceted problems you will dismiss any discussion that is not merely surface level as a word salad. Though it is clearly your popcorn level of attention at fault you will deflect any uncomfortable or complicated questions with an automatic deferral to data and statistics, all helpfully provided by whoever is your bigot of the moment this week.For you and proponents of the IQ test, intelligence, very conveniently is defined as the mental abilities that can be defined by IQ tests. Think for one second about the backwards engineering employed to justify such a reductive pile of faux intellectual nonsense.
Cognitive capacity is better understood as a series of overlapping multiple intelligences most of which can not be measured in any meaningful way by the laughably naïve IQ test. Mathematical, emotional, visual-spatial, verbal,musical,social,Physiological,self-reflective,etc


IQ does not even measure rational thinking, that is the ability to act counter intuitively. (I am not advocating ignoring or failing to harness the valuable power if intuition in interpersonal relationships and music and art. In fact in circumstances in which one has had a lot of first hand experience knowing when to trust ones intuition is often the most intellectually sound way of reacting.)What I am proposing is that our actual ability, and desire to actively use deliberative skills, is not something measured by IQ tests at all.What this means in the real world is that 'Smart People' as those who do well in IQ tests like to call themselves, often make stupid decisions. They are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories, more likely to want to be told what to do, mainly because of their own very limited version of intelligence.

So like you Gandalf, they take fewer risks but have greater emotional instability anyway. They go through life failing to learn. Why? because they think that book centred learning is the same as real world experience, which of course it isn't. This means not only do they think their work holds more weight and their reasoning is superior to others, they also think they (because of their high IQ and they think immunity to making mistakes) are less likely to fall for scams. Gandalf you have fallen for scams repeatedly for years though, and that is just the ones you are admitting to us, but because you have become skilled in defending dumb beliefs, you have even managed to convince yourself that black people choose to be poor.

IQ is not even fixed, it can change dramatically through your life. Heritability is not the same as hereditary (I have written about this here before) and so the whole idea that groups have correlated IQ because of race is bullshit and wishful thinking.