Reparations for slavery...... yay or nay?

[Gandalf]

Why should Lyle have to change or consider reparations? To whom and for what? He hasn't done anything to anyone. In the here and now, the black community owes itself and nobody is stopping anyone from improving themselves. The racism comes from refusing to accept that people do have agency.

My niece of 12 wants to be a Maths teacher. Absolute rock and roll. If you do not have a goal, try or have the faculties it won't happen, but the main thing is nurture, encouragement and trying. This constant 'victim of history' narrative brushes aside the terrible decisions being made in the here and now. Is she blaming Japanese colonialism and saying 'I cannot do anything with my life!' Nope, you maintain the family and knuckle on with things.

Parents are often condemning their own children, but good parents ensure a more likely productive outcome. People owe themselves first and foremost and once they have tidied the room a little they will find less dust.

[p4pking]

Your nieces parents should tell her, “your uncle Miles is a teacher”. Then she’d aim higher.

[Gandalf]

I think there is a huge difference in mentality here though and that is that if you want something you have to work at it to get it. Put it into perspective, not only was there the Japanese occupation where they did really horrendous things like try and eradicate culture and use violence to coerce, there was then a massive war that killed millions, but is anyone using that as an excuse as to why they are struggling? Japan give me some money! No, of course not. Actually there is a dislike of Japan, but it is not being excused as a reason why some people are remaining directionless and poor in the here and now. So if you are going to use the oppression argument, then you could apply it here as well as anywhere, but people instead actually choose to better themselves and just work hard.

[Beanz]

So Gandalf you obviously have not read it either. You come to any subject with your mind made up.

You read enough guff about Wilde, read something else for a change.

[Gandalf]

I read snippets, but am not persuaded. I believe in equality of opportunity meaning parents have a duty to be there for their kids and for education to be on tap, but beyond that you can either make good or bad decisions and that is up to you. Society provides enough for the disadvantaged already.

[Gandalf]

Yes, I will read something new after. Thank you for the advice.

[Beanz]

Part of the problem is this automatic assumption of attributing a settling of accounts with monetary reparations and the clearly agenda driven language of "handouts".

So for example when Jamaica asked the UK under PM Cameron about reparations, the UK started to work out a financial solution but Jamaica did not want a penny. For them that was an insult. They wanted an acknowledgement, an apology and a commitment to work together on educational and community projects.

Camerons own ancestor was a white slave owner that not only made a fortune from that labour he was compensated at the end of slavery. An amount equivalent to about three million pounds today.

[Beanz]

A practical example

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...ation-45979234

[Gandalf]

A practical example

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...ation-45979234

It is a terrible precedent. I completely disagree with Geoff Thompson. Also, who cannot afford to graduate? There is a loans system for those who go to University and what does that person have to do with slavery that was abolished a very long time ago? I have a local friend here who did not go to University because his Dad died young and he got a job and worked his way up. You don't have to go to University and if you do then you can save up and then go or you can take out loans. The idea that it has anything to do with slavery is ridiculous. It is insulting to the people of today as it is basically saying that they cannot compete without a hand held out. It is condescending.

Living in the past is no way to get ahead for the future. It is a dichotomy I see in the left. They are almost scared to let people rise or fall on their own merits and those alone.

[Gandalf]

The one thing I will say though about University education is that it is ridiculously expensive and so people should consider whether they really need it. I mean if you are going to get into 40 grand of debt to serve coffee, then you probably should not have gone to University. It's an interesting one. However, I do not think it should have anything to do with slavery. That's a social issue of the here and now and that is it as far as I am concerned.

[Beanz]

A practical example

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...ation-45979234

It is a terrible precedent. I completely disagree with Geoff Thompson. Also, who cannot afford to graduate? There is a loans system for those who go to University and what does that person have to do with slavery that was abolished a very long time ago? I have a local friend here who did not go to University because his Dad died young and he got a job and worked his way up. You don't have to go to University and if you do then you can save up and then go or you can take out loans. The idea that it has anything to do with slavery is ridiculous. It is insulting to the people of today as it is basically saying that they cannot compete without a hand held out. It is condescending.

Living in the past is no way to get ahead for the future. It is a dichotomy I see in the left. They are almost scared to let people rise or fall on their own merits and those alone.

Wow. Seconds later and you revert to the same conditioning. You adore the idea that everyone is looking for handouts while you are a shining example of what you presume is a level playing field. You are not mate. Wake up. You are an able bodied straight white male and even in South Korea that means you do have advantages others do not. In fact i would argue more so and that is maybe why you choose not to do the same job here. Universities are businesses that often make a lot of money and if one chooses to use some of that money to support students not like you then why does it bother you so much?

It is like you bullshit "Society provides enough for the disadvantaged already" lie.

It is something you trot out to avoid engaging with the realities of OTHER people's lives.

Nobody but you is talking about living in the past. People are talking about facing up to the past and moving on. You meanwhile are in denial. start thinking for yourself. Don't give up now at your age and just repeat crap from people who could not even graduate from the course you teach.

"Living in the past is no way to get ahead for the future. It is a dichotomy I see in the left. They are almost scared to let people rise or fall on their own merits and those alone."

That is not you speaking. It is just you repeating rubbish. You are on the one hand telling us all about the importance of tradition and the values inherited from something of which you have little knowledge and then telling us to dismiss the past and history. Then you are lumping anyone who doesn't agree with your plastic soundbite arguments of being from 'The Left'. That is just daft.


There is no acknowledgement of people's merits from you or your denial buddies though is there? The automatic response is laughter, derision, stereotyping, etc.



Read the article and educate yourself - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ations/361631/

[Gandalf]

A practical example

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...ation-45979234

It is a terrible precedent. I completely disagree with Geoff Thompson. Also, who cannot afford to graduate? There is a loans system for those who go to University and what does that person have to do with slavery that was abolished a very long time ago? I have a local friend here who did not go to University because his Dad died young and he got a job and worked his way up. You don't have to go to University and if you do then you can save up and then go or you can take out loans. The idea that it has anything to do with slavery is ridiculous. It is insulting to the people of today as it is basically saying that they cannot compete without a hand held out. It is condescending.

Living in the past is no way to get ahead for the future. It is a dichotomy I see in the left. They are almost scared to let people rise or fall on their own merits and those alone.

Wow. Seconds later and you revert to the same conditioning. You adore the idea that everyone is looking for handouts while you are a shining example of what you presume is a level playing field. You are not mate. Wake up. You are an able bodied straight white male and even in South Korea that means you do have advantages others do not. In fact i would argue more so and that is maybe why you choose not to do the same job here. Universities are businesses that often make a lot of money and if one chooses to use some of that money to support students not like you then why does it bother you so much?

It is like you bullshit "Society provides enough for the disadvantaged already" lie.

It is something you trot out to avoid engaging with the realities of OTHER people's lives.

Nobody but you is talking about living in the past. People are talking about facing up to the past and moving on. You meanwhile are in denial. start thinking for yourself. Don't give up now at your age and just repeat crap from people who could not even graduate from the course you teach.

"Living in the past is no way to get ahead for the future. It is a dichotomy I see in the left. They are almost scared to let people rise or fall on their own merits and those alone."

That is not you speaking. It is just you repeating rubbish. You are on the one hand telling us all about the importance of tradition and the values inherited from something of which you have little knowledge and then telling us to dismiss the past and history. Then you are lumping anyone who doesn't agree with your plastic soundbite arguments of being from 'The Left'. That is just daft.


There is no acknowledgement of people's merits from you or your denial buddies though is there? The automatic response is laughter, derision, stereotyping, etc.



Read the article and educate yourself - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ations/361631/

If money is to be given to people who have nothing to do with slavery and who are born into a modern age where opportunities are much the same for anybody without a large inheritance, then all I can continue to say is that I disagree.

No. I do not have advantages other people in the UK do not have. That is just absolute poppycock and you once again getting antsy and triggered. Being white is an automatic advantage? Being male is an automatic advantage? Hmm. How about my ability to make good decisions has been an advantage? It is not like my childhood was any different to any other poor childhood. Like you say, I am not special and indeed I am not. I do not have special advantages.

Why should students 'not like me' be given privileges that I am not able to have? Was I not as poor as them? Did my family not toil in the fields as peasants like most other people centuries ago? I don't really understand this magic line that you are trying to draw up for people 'less privileged' than me.

What does me doing a job anywhere have to do with anything? What gives me an advantage is my ability and dedication. Anybody willing to apply the same efforts and take risks which you say I am adverse to can have the same opportunities.

Yes, society provides everybody with an education. A pretty good one actually, though they need more nutrition, finance and career guidance. A poor child is given assistance with a free meal every day. A child will not go homeless. Some people live on benefits, admittedly very frugally, for as long as they like. Young girls who have never worked before can have children and be given homes. I mean, do you not consider this very rewarding and sometimes for very poor behavior? Yes, it is very generous as long as there are children to hold hostage. Even if you work, the minimum wage is several pounds. Pretty good money for the lowest skilled work going. I used to do it when I was 18 and it was actually very fun and if I actually had a bit of common sense I would have started to compound my income from a young age, but I did not have any common sense then.

I have an excellent understanding of history. It was my best subject and I have a degree in it. However, I do not think it is useful to constantly be a victim when we do indeed have fantastic opportunities to do well in life. You are talking to a mutt who was left in homeless shelter for gods sake. You have to study and bit by bit try and work your way through life and a knowledge of history is fantastic, enriching, and rewarding, but it is not useful to me to always consider myself broken because my great, great, great, great, great granddad worked in a factory or his great relatives were poor peasants toiling on land somewhere. I am in the here and now and have to do what I can to improve myself now. The furthest I can go is to reject the way I was raised, but it cannot go any further.

People of any group can and do fantastically well. The smartest people will always find a way through. That's how things work. Some won't and they will drink themselves to death and blame anyone but themselves and that is a choice too, but there is a choice in life and you can just get on with things, you really can. Some people cannot get ahead because they simply do not have the same abilities and that is unfortunate and that is why there are indeed safety nets and support groups. Society is very generous indeed and we should be grateful for the good things it has indeed provided. I certainly believe that it helped level the playing field for me, but it took me a while to work out who I was. Life is all about choices.

I do think the history of slavery is a terrible one. However, times move on and you get on with things. Countries have been ravaged by war, but they rebuild. You don't wallow in the rubble and never get your act together. Well, you can and some do, but it is road to nowhere. Move on.

[Fenster]

Fascinating article (especially the history). I was left with.....

1. Six million black people fled the evil South to get fucked over much worst in the evil white North - although greeted with a smile instead of a hood. A lack of education and innocence enabled the powers that be to exploit and rob them as part of a social engineering experiment.

2. Reparations is about changing the psyche not money. Reparations give credence to the black slave holocaust.

3. How lucky were the white slaves? They had a right result when the poor blacks shipped up.

[Beanz]

A practical example

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...ation-45979234

It is a terrible precedent. I completely disagree with Geoff Thompson. Also, who cannot afford to graduate? There is a loans system for those who go to University and what does that person have to do with slavery that was abolished a very long time ago? I have a local friend here who did not go to University because his Dad died young and he got a job and worked his way up. You don't have to go to University and if you do then you can save up and then go or you can take out loans. The idea that it has anything to do with slavery is ridiculous. It is insulting to the people of today as it is basically saying that they cannot compete without a hand held out. It is condescending.

Living in the past is no way to get ahead for the future. It is a dichotomy I see in the left. They are almost scared to let people rise or fall on their own merits and those alone.

Wow. Seconds later and you revert to the same conditioning. You adore the idea that everyone is looking for handouts while you are a shining example of what you presume is a level playing field. You are not mate. Wake up. You are an able bodied straight white male and even in South Korea that means you do have advantages others do not. In fact i would argue more so and that is maybe why you choose not to do the same job here. Universities are businesses that often make a lot of money and if one chooses to use some of that money to support students not like you then why does it bother you so much?

It is like you bullshit "Society provides enough for the disadvantaged already" lie.

It is something you trot out to avoid engaging with the realities of OTHER people's lives.

Nobody but you is talking about living in the past. People are talking about facing up to the past and moving on. You meanwhile are in denial. start thinking for yourself. Don't give up now at your age and just repeat crap from people who could not even graduate from the course you teach.

"Living in the past is no way to get ahead for the future. It is a dichotomy I see in the left. They are almost scared to let people rise or fall on their own merits and those alone."

That is not you speaking. It is just you repeating rubbish. You are on the one hand telling us all about the importance of tradition and the values inherited from something of which you have little knowledge and then telling us to dismiss the past and history. Then you are lumping anyone who doesn't agree with your plastic soundbite arguments of being from 'The Left'. That is just daft.


There is no acknowledgement of people's merits from you or your denial buddies though is there? The automatic response is laughter, derision, stereotyping, etc.



Read the article and educate yourself - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ations/361631/

If money is to be given to people who have nothing to do with slavery and who are born into a modern age where opportunities are much the same for anybody without a large inheritance, then all I can continue to say is that I disagree.

No. I do not have advantages other people in the UK do not have. That is just absolute poppycock and you once again getting antsy and triggered. Being white is an automatic advantage? Being male is an automatic advantage? Hmm. How about my ability to make good decisions has been an advantage? It is not like my childhood was any different to any other poor childhood. Like you say, I am not special and indeed I am not. I do not have special advantages.

Why should students 'not like me' be given privileges that I am not able to have? Was I not as poor as them? Did my family not toil in the fields as peasants like most other people centuries ago? I don't really understand this magic line that you are trying to draw up for people 'less privileged' than me.

What does me doing a job anywhere have to do with anything? What gives me an advantage is my ability and dedication. Anybody willing to apply the same efforts and take risks which you say I am adverse to can have the same opportunities.

Yes, society provides everybody with an education. A pretty good one actually, though they need more nutrition, finance and career guidance. A poor child is given assistance with a free meal every day. A child will not go homeless. Some people live on benefits, admittedly very frugally, for as long as they like. Young girls who have never worked before can have children and be given homes. I mean, do you not consider this very rewarding and sometimes for very poor behavior? Yes, it is very generous as long as there are children to hold hostage. Even if you work, the minimum wage is several pounds. Pretty good money for the lowest skilled work going. I used to do it when I was 18 and it was actually very fun and if I actually had a bit of common sense I would have started to compound my income from a young age, but I did not have any common sense then.

I have an excellent understanding of history. It was my best subject and I have a degree in it. However, I do not think it is useful to constantly be a victim when we do indeed have fantastic opportunities to do well in life. You are talking to a mutt who was left in homeless shelter for gods sake. You have to study and bit by bit try and work your way through life and a knowledge of history is fantastic, enriching, and rewarding, but it is not useful to me to always consider myself broken because my great, great, great, great, great granddad worked in a factory or his great relatives were poor peasants toiling on land somewhere. I am in the here and now and have to do what I can to improve myself now. The furthest I can go is to reject the way I was raised, but it cannot go any further.

People of any group can and do fantastically well. The smartest people will always find a way through. That's how things work. Some won't and they will drink themselves to death and blame anyone but themselves and that is a choice too, but there is a choice in life and you can just get on with things, you really can. Some people cannot get ahead because they simply do not have the same abilities and that is unfortunate and that is why there are indeed safety nets and support groups. Society is very generous indeed and we should be grateful for the good things it has indeed provided. I certainly believe that it helped level the playing field for me, but it took me a while to work out who I was. Life is all about choices.

I do think the history of slavery is a terrible one. However, times move on and you get on with things. Countries have been ravaged by war, but they rebuild. You don't wallow in the rubble and never get your act together. Well, you can and some do, but it is road to nowhere. Move on.

It is not just about money. That is a lens thru which you judge worth but I have already pointed to an example where money was specifically rejected. Opportunities really are not much the same for anybody at all, it is just a lie repeated by the mainstream media that you obviously subscribe to. A narrative repeated by those who are continuing to benefit from that privilege and wealth, often stolen from those whose relatives where robbed all those years ago. What happened to the guy who supported Tony Benn's campaigning against huge wealth inequality and inherited wealth? When did that young man become a supporter of people like the pig fucker Cameron whose own family were compensated for having to give up slaves? Benn did not bequeath his important archive to the British Library so that you could pretend there is nothing to learn from the past.

The majority of your post is denial and lies.


"Society is very generous indeed and we should be grateful for the good things it has indeed provided


Some people cannot get ahead because they simply do not have the same abilities

A poor child is given assistance with a free meal every day.

A child will not go homeless.

It is insulting to the people of today as it is basically saying that they cannot compete without a hand held out.

The smartest people will always find a way through. That's how things work."


All of those statements are simply not true.

You have to pretend they are true in order to continue playing the victim yourself.

[mrbig1]

Have they earned it? Yes no doubt. If slavery have just ended right there then the answer is no. Today there are more Black men in jail than in College. That's a system that does nothing but enslave more of our black brothers and sisters. my only problem with that is the money will not stay in there community. It will go to a handful of rich like everybody else. Then we're right back where we started from. First we have to end working class slavery. That's not going to happen. It doesn't matter who the next President is.