10 best boxers of all time named..

[goti71]

Then it's a bit like the Elo system in chess, where your Elo points depend on how far up your opponents were when you beat them. But even so it's still a bit rubbish; the unbeaten Marciano, but also Whitaker, Roy Jones jr., James Toney, Tyson, etc.

[El Kabong]

Where's Willie Pep? Guy wins 229 fights and he can't make this list?!?!?! Where's Henry Armstrong? Guy wins 151 fights and he cant' make this list? 19 times defending his welterweight title and he doesn't make this list?!?!?!

Again, Joe Louis ranks below Ali, WHY? "No one touches ‘The Greatest’ for cultural, social and political impact" ....oh fuck off with that bullshit. Great fighter, yes no one doubts it, but again 25 in a row from 1938 to 1950 undefeated as champion JOE LOUIS the Greatest Heavyweight Champion of All-Time STATISTICALLY VERIFIED


Now I look at fighters and think "On any given day, MAYBE this guy beats that guy" and if I'm looking at that and ONLY that then maybe Ali rates higher, Holyfield and Foreman certainly rate higher looking at it that way, maybe Larry Holmes rates higher but in the ring in actual competition Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano accomplished a whole hell of a lot and it cannot be denied simply by saying "Well look who they fought" their eras were what their eras were and there's no controlling that they didn't duck guys the way Sven Ottke did or wait out opponents like Floyd has...they just fought who was there, no bullshit.

[Fenster]

Where's Willie Pep? Guy wins 229 fights and he can't make this list?!?!?! Where's Henry Armstrong? Guy wins 151 fights and he cant' make this list? 19 times defending his welterweight title and he doesn't make this list?!?!?!

Again, Joe Louis ranks below Ali, WHY? "No one touches ‘The Greatest’ for cultural, social and political impact" ....oh fuck off with that bullshit. Great fighter, yes no one doubts it, but again 25 in a row from 1938 to 1950 undefeated as champion JOE LOUIS the Greatest Heavyweight Champion of All-Time STATISTICALLY VERIFIED


Now I look at fighters and think "On any given day, MAYBE this guy beats that guy" and if I'm looking at that and ONLY that then maybe Ali rates higher, Holyfield and Foreman certainly rate higher looking at it that way, maybe Larry Holmes rates higher but in the ring in actual competition Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano accomplished a whole hell of a lot and it cannot be denied simply by saying "Well look who they fought" their eras were what their eras were and there's no controlling that they didn't duck guys the way Sven Ottke did or wait out opponents like Floyd has...they just fought who was there, no bullshit.

The algorithm can't produce what Lyle wants, it has NOTHING to do with personal bias, cultural, social or political impact.

You don't know anything about Pep, Armstrong, Marciano's or Otkke's "opposition" apart from what you've read (the odd fight/clip doesn't count).

[El Kabong]

The algorithm can't produce what Lyle wants, it has NOTHING to do with personal bias, cultural, social or political impact.

You don't know anything about Pep, Armstrong, Marciano's or Otkke's "opposition" apart from what you've read (the odd fight/clip doesn't count).

OK I guess Fenster will take my opinion personally, sorry

Ali was a great boxer...I don't think he's The Greatest of All Time, I know he professed that he was and told anyone who would listen. That's fine, I think quite a few boxers especially at the highest levels feel they are able to beat anyone on any given night, of course they should have that confidence going into the ring, but in the ring you've got to provide the results. Again Ali is a great boxer, but he DID lose a time or two I guess that is heresy to say, but it's the truth. People mention Ali losing years of his prime and yet there's 0 mention of Louis losing a similar amount of time in his prime....little is made mention of what Louis did in regards to cultural, social, and political impact and I find that appalling to be quite honest. I don't wish to pit Louis vs Ali in a "Who was the bigger star" as they were both giants of their day, but I do find that Louis is dismissed with ease and Ali not so much and that's not due to their work in ring either so yeah I call bullshit and if it hurts your feelings tough shit, I'll call it every time and you can expect it but I'm not going to back down from my belief on account of your feelings.


The algorithm ....the algorithm apparently doesn't account for successful title defenses but quite clearly stated beside Ali's name is all about his impact outside the ring, why?


I know Willie Pep and won 10 days after suffering his first defeat, I know Pep fought 16 times winning all 16 in 1944, I know he was severely injured in a plane crash in 1947 but still fought and won 10 bouts that very year, I know he fought Sandy Saddler (record of 144 (103 KO)-16-2) who was an absolute stud of a boxer and went 1-3 against him....but hey I don't know anything of his opponents

I know Homicide Hank held the belts in the featherweight, lightweight, and welterweight divisions and if not for one Sugar Ray Robinson he might have held the middleweight title too. He beat Barney Ross (a great fighter) he beat Lou Ambers (a great fighter), he went 1-3 vs Fritzie Zivic (a great fighter), he beat Chalky Wright...anyone he ducked? Why wouldn't you consider him a great fighter?

Marciano beat everyone he ever fought which what more can a guy do? He won 49 knocked out 43. But it's more impressive when those on his record are Joe Louis, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott...older versions of them? Sure, but they were still fighting and still competitive at the highest level (Does Joe Calzaghe not get full credit for beating Bernard Hopkins?) Roland LaStarza, Kid Matthews, Don Cockell, Lee Savold, Rex Layne...who should he have fought? Who did he duck?


Sven Ottke fought from 1997 to 2004 and notably absent on his record: RJJ, Toney, Hopkins, Calzaghe among others....so although he went 34 (6 KO)-0-0 we can't be saying he's the best or greatest as there WERE other folks for him to fight. Also when your opponent is penalized for punching you legitimately it's a bit of a problem. Credit to him for knocking out Mundine though.

[Master]

Mundine was boxing Ottke ears off before the knock out. How the feather fisted Ottke did that is a miracle that I will never understand.

[Ron Swanson]

Some people just don’t like math, and that’s okay. Perhaps they are swell spellers, or are charming in a dim sort of way.

[TitoFan]

I rate Monzon very highly, but he's not Top 10. Ditto for Archie Moore. Fishnets disgraces the list. Way above Fishnets are both Wifredos (Gomez and Benitez). Not having SRL in there just proves the immense ignorance of whoever wrote that list. Even more ignorant for omitting Roberto Duran.

[Fenster]

The algorithm can't produce what Lyle wants, it has NOTHING to do with personal bias, cultural, social or political impact.

You don't know anything about Pep, Armstrong, Marciano's or Otkke's "opposition" apart from what you've read (the odd fight/clip doesn't count).

OK I guess Fenster will take my opinion personally, sorry

The algorithm ....the algorithm apparently doesn't account for successful title defenses but quite clearly stated beside Ali's name is all about his impact outside the ring, why?

The algorithm wasn't created by the "writer" of those comments, Lyle. The "writer" stole the list from boxrec then added comments. The list is based on a points system not personal opinion.

I didn't take your opinion personally, I merely tried to answer your questions, that's all. You asked where's Pep? Louis? Ottke (the last one is a joke, dude, just some light-hearted irony)? I merely tried to explain they didn't score as highly as others due to the algorithm used.

[El Kabong]

The algorithm wasn't created by the "writer" of those comments, Lyle. The "writer" stole the list from boxrec then added comments. The list is based on a points system not personal opinion.

I didn't take your opinion personally, I merely tried to answer your questions, that's all. You asked where's Pep? Louis? Ottke (the last one is a joke, dude, just some light-hearted irony)? I merely tried to explain they didn't score as highly as others due to the algorithm used.

Then I guess thanks for taking the time to address me personally seeing how I'm the only one with an issue regarding this list of 10 best boxers all time.

[bozo6]

When I posted this thread I had no idea it was actually taken from a 'Boxrec' list! I also worried that 'top 10 greatest' has been done to death and I would get hammered for it. But now knowing this is actually a Boxrec list,....im fuc*ing astounded!


Algorithms don't take into account rigged scorecards, bad referees, or even chilli in the eyes...(Ali vs Liston) Ae all PBF wins all non controversial wins? Did the judges get ALL his winning rounds right? Does the algorithm take into account layoffs? Struggles to make weight and many other variables humans take into account that gives us our personal OPINIONS? Does an algorithm HAVE an opinion or is its verdict totally inflexible? Obviously so.

An algorithm cant know how hard a puncher is, or how hard a punch a fighter has taken and fights on. All an algorithm has is final results. Stats ultimately don't present the best evidence for valuing fighters. If they did, this top ten would be correct, and we know it isn't.

Stats leading up to Tyson vs Douglas has Tyson winning. Algorithms don't take into account human emotions, response to personal tragedy, determination or even lack of determination of a fighter that has been through an emotional state which changes a result, which changes the algorithm.

Fu*k robots. Give me human opinions and debate any day.

[Andre]

I see human intervention and opinion in the reasoning we see written under that list. Where did the thought of an algorithm come from? Something doesnt add up.

[Cleon]

List is garbage