The "Can We Keep it Civil?" Thread

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

Have you observed the color, eye shape, or size an Asian person with say a Black person.

You are AGAIN making the mistake that physiological differences are markers for genetic-based IQ differences, except that they AREN’T.

Physiology is malleable, as in partially affected by the environment. Yet I will admit that physiology is affected by genes as well, but it still has nothing to do with a population/individual’s potential intelligence.

The racial designations that we currently use are principally based on three characteristics.

1) Facial structure
2) Skin color
3) Hair texture.

Those are things that are controlled by six genes out of thirty thousand genes in the human genome and those genes have never been shown by any geneticist on the planet, any biologist on the planet, to be connected, or what geneticists call “concordant,” with any other trait known as intelligence or known as temperament or behavior or ethics or morality or any of those kinds of things.

It’s also the reason why you’ll find African Americans in the NBA but you won’t find many West Africans, who are certainly “blacker” and according to the racist theorist, athleticism and blackness somehow run together, then you would expect West Africans to dominate the NBA and African teams to dominate international basketball competitions

They don’t because these things are not concordant on the basis of race. They do not cluster on the basis of so-called racial categories

Let me put it straight: nobody in the field is saying that humans don’t have physiological variation that we use as part of the definition for “race” that is often rooted in geographical regions. But race is not an absolute, like height, or weight, that can be measured or scientifically defined in humans. That’s the score, and it ain’t changing

The one piece that continues to gnaw at me, though, is: “What does ‘IQ’ actually measure?”

Can you start a fire without matches ? Can you look at the sun and use it as a guidance map ? Can you purify water ? Can skin a wild animal and the fur as clothing ? Do you know how preserve food without a fridge ?

No. Well there are many ppl living in rural parts of the world who can do this with their eyes closed but would more than likely not fair well on an IQ test. But they're dumb. Right ?

Let's say you were in rural Kenya. How long do you think it would be before I came upon your pink and naked body laying in a fen of fern, gasping and shivering, eyes bulging in horror, whilst some poisonous amphibian set atop your chest awaiting your inevitable demise?

Strip away the technology and tools and what can you really do ?

You put a MENSA member in a certain environment where a different type of intelligence is needed they would not last a second.

But no !! To you intelligence is fixed and if your can't figure out "If Jack is taller than Jim and Bob is smaller than Jack and Peter is smaller than Paul" (or any of them IQ type questions) then your dumb !!!!

Conversely, people living in abject poverty in third world countries devise almost unbelievably complex ways of eking out an existence, and some modicum of dignity, in the midst of dehumanizing conditions. This requires a deep level of intelligence

Even the most cursory googling on the subject of African genetic diversity will show you that African peoples have extremely diverse and divergent genetic makeups. They cannot possible all be guided by the same “dumb gene” or the same “violence gene,” or “fast running gene.”

Yet you dummies treat all Sub-Saharan Africans if they are a single genetic race.

The reason for this is because Sub-Saharan Africans have

• Dark Skin
• Type 4 or sometimes Type 3 hair

It doesn’t matter if they have a variety of different features, or if groups have different average heights, have reached different levels of civilization, and self-identify as different peoples.

NO !!!!! Blacks are all ONE race, not two, or five

ONE !!!!!



And why? Because in order for your mumbo jumbo to really work, it requires a genetically homogenous race of Blacks who all share roughly the same DNA.

And how about white people ? They're certainly less genetically diverse than Blacks, but they obviously have genetic variance between say… Scandinavians and Italians or Anglo Saxons and Spaniards… but evidently, those genetic differences are somehow never linked to intelligence.

You don't want to theorize on which group of White people are the least intelligent.

No !! No !!

That is only used for talking about black ppl. Who are the genetically dumber and disadvantaged Whites ? If there is enough genetic difference for whites to have different hair color, eye color and different average height, then why not intelligence ?

The answer is because this is not science, it’s politics and to ask that question doesn't serve the political goals of racist Whites.

You don’t want to face the idea that you might belong to the dumbest group of White people in your little hierarchy. So you theorize that “Whiteness” simply makes all Whites just as capable, and all Blacks equally disadvantaged

Have you ever been to Japan and seen how svelte and small many are?

Yeah all Japs are svelte and small



And Japan is still under the system of white supremacy

Japan lost the war and was de-militarized by the Anglo-U.S. government..

Japan is NOT a sovereign nation, it is a COLONY of the U.S. That’s why Japan is one of the only (or the only) “super powers” that doesn’t have any nuclear weapons (and It won’t be allowed to have any).

If you look at the nations where possession of nuclear weapons is a “problem” for the U.S. or Israel or NATO — they are always NON-WHITE nations.

And that’s why Japan cannot force the U.S. to remove its military bases even though it has begged and pleaded many times over the years to ASK (not tell) the U.S. to remove them and the U.S. has the power to refuse to do it.

Japan can’t build anything (even a convenience store) in the U.S. without permission from our government so how can we build, even expand a military presence in Japan without their permission?

Because Japan is not just a U.S. colony it is a non-white nation under the system of white supremacy.

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

This occurs even in North America where Asian kids outperform Whites, Latinos, and Blacks. I honestly believe nurturing might have a little bit to do with it, but there is the genetic argument that won't go away. However, I have seen with my own eyes the difference between England and Asia in that regard. Kids in the UK are much more likely to grow up in single parent households outside of wedlock and in pverty that does not work unless the kid has inner resources and resolve.

The proof that this is a specious and deceptive method of practicing white supremacy is white people DO NOT treat Asians like they’re superior to whites.

1. Asians are still “yellow people,” and “Chinks” and “people of color.”

2. Asian couples are NEVER portrayed as the most socially desirable couples in white movies and TV shows. In fact, they don’t even exist.

3. Asian women are seldom if ever lifted above the white female in movies and televisions as the most beautiful or desirable women (I’ve NEVER seen this happen)

4. Many allegedly “Asian” nations are still colonized by European nations, like South Korea, Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam, etc.

5. Asians were horribly stereotyped in Hollywood films of the past. Now, they practically invisible.

6. There are still many private white clubs and golf courses where Asians are not allowed to join or play on.

7. the fact that this “argument” exists is a stereotype, and in a white supremacy system, that means the targets are never equals to whites

8. White people still elevate other white people above all Asians when it comes to the best paying jobs and positions of power and political offices. If whites believed Asians were superior, they would put them in charge of everything.

9. That fact that this stereotype even exists while at the same time white people are allowed to be just people without stereotypes (aka ‘human’) is proof enough.

Yes, there are cultural differences between Asians and other groups. So what? At the end of the day we are ALL still held hostage by the global system of white supremacy.

When it comes to blacks and Asians — to compare a people whose identity and nation and culture have been intact for over a THOUSAND YEARS and is still INTACT with a people who were enslaved for 500 YEARS and in the process were ROBBED of their identity, culture, nation, land, religion, and ability to govern their own lives under their own national banner, flag, and land is just plain STUPID.

Especially when those same (black) people are still under attack by white supremacists who seem to devote the majority of their time and energies to making sure black people stay inferior via inferior living environments, education, healthcare, food quality, water quality, endless promotion of destructive programming and stereotyping via the white mainstream media (TV and films and music they control), deliberate drug infestations,m police terror tactics, and excessive and unjust incarcerations,

Bottom line, the “Asian argument” was created for blacks, not for other white people.

4. I brought up slavery because that is a commonly held trope and as you agree, we were all slaves in a Feudal system. If you are going to talk about slavery as I see you then do, let's not forget that people were traded. It was black chiefs selling their own people for resources. The White people were wrong to do that, but so were the black Chiefs. At the end of the day though slavery was abolished a very long time ago and nobody thinks it was a good thing. Morals and times were different. We used to burn Protestants alive and publicly hang people. Times do change.

Africans were not selling “their own”, they were selling their enemies, just as the Greeks and Romans once did. Africa, then as now. They were no more selling “their own” than, say, “Europeans” were killing “their own” during the Holocaust.

The central impact of the African Transatlantic Slave trade you nonchalantly brush aside is the LEGACY. And it’s that legacy that connects us and everyone else posting in this forum today and will continue until the day it’s resolved or addressed.

You cannot (and here is the challenge if you are up for it) point to any other form of slavery (present, past or pre-historic) that has had such an immense and global impact on this planet than the African Holocaust

The outcome of that operation is the crucial factor which in terms of scale and magnitude has gone unsurpassed and has had a profound effect on millions worldwide. Not just because of slavery, that was just the starting point. But because white supremacy would not allow themselves to see blacks as humans and it carried on long after the slave trade was abolished.

Have you actually studied the history of Ireland in the face of hundreds of years of English land theft, wars and occupation? They were not having a very fun time either whence so many being in America today. If your property is stolen and you are in effect a vagrant, then what are you? Free for what exactly? Life could be awful for anybody in those days.

As I said before - What you leave out is that the Irish got to where they are because of racism.

The Irish did not suffer from hundreds of years of slavery - Because they were White.
The Irish could vote by the 1860s, not the 1960s – Because they were White.
The Irish qualified for the Homestead Act, the G.I. Bill and FHA loans – Because they were White.
The Irish could live in nice neighbourhoods and go to nice schools – Because they were White.

Irish indentured servants already received two forms of reparations. One was Freedom Dues (money & land). And the second, was all the tangible benefits that came with the first Affirmative Action program called white supremacy

Not everyone in the US saw them as fully White. But by the late 1800s, Whiteness in the US had been enlarged to include them and when the Irish first came to the USA in large numbers (in the 1800's) they had had almost no experience with blacks.

But after a short time in the states the Irish were rioting against blacks (as with the New York draft riots during the Civil War) and joining in the barring of blacks from labor unions, opposing school desegregation, and seeking to become white by assimilating to the white WASP system that was firmly in place.

The Irish joined the club of whiteness to the max.

Yes the Irish suffered and many never owned slaves. But whatever stereotypes they may have had then does not impact you now.

If and Irish person fills out a job application TODAY : No one cares if they are Irish.

No one follows them around in the store.
No one assumes they're are lazy.
No one assumes they're child-like and can’t take care of themselves.
No one assumes they're criminal.
No one tells them they are so much better off in America so they should be glad your ancestors were slaves.
No one acts like they did them a favor or saved them from a backwardness.
No one displays their human reminds as primitive until the late 70s.
They don't have to radically change/permanently alter a feature of your body to become accepted or get employment (like hair for example).

They're just another white person.

The same cannot be said for a black person. And how does this relates to slavery ?

The stereotypes were created during slavery as an excuse for enslaving blacks (we are childlike and need guidance, can’t take of ourselves need white help/masters, black women are sex-hungry, baby making machines to explain all the mixed children running around).

Or they were created after slavery to keep whites at the top and blacks at the bottom.

These stereotypes of blacks are to this day are still widely held and even defended by white folks and a few misguided blacks.

None of them are new. They are very old and they are based in slavery and it’s immediate aftermath.

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

5. I lived with a black person when I was at University and though her experiences were obviously different to mine she was not experiencing any of this persecution you are talking about.

First off - You assume that blacks always speak their minds to white people.

MOST DON'T

If she spoke her mind to you; a white supremacist about racism ? How would have that went down ? You would have ran your ass to your white landlord "You know that's Tiana is really hostile. She's really aggressive and saying some crazy things" and you would have got her kicked out the dorm.

And she knew that.

That's why black people have to often engage in this tackiness when they're around white.

Even outside of work most whites are so closed-minded about race and get upset about it so easily that it becomes a waste of breath. They have too many built-in defences. They make it a no-win. Even online it is largely a wasted effort (but not completely).

In these ways and others whites shut themselves off from any serious, honest talk about race with blacks. Then, partly from this engineered silence, they conclude that racism is no big deal.

She studied hard, came out socializing, worked, nobody was holding her down for being black.

How do you kn ow ?

She achieved IN SPITE of the system not because of it.

You are British right? Surely you realize that Britain is a very tolerant country. I have worked with black PhD holders and there is non of this Denilson style rhetoric.

Yes because black people have to make white ppl feel comfortable. The penalties for talking are severe.

Even me on Saddo. I've been a member here for 13 years. For pretty much the first ten years I didn't say anything other than speak on boxing because I knew what I say would not go down well. When whites do come across blacks who have talk openly and honestly about racism, such as activists, writers and bloggers, they dismiss them as radical, hostile, ungrateful, white-hating and so on.

Most whites have no first-hand experience that would make them seem reasonable.

If she was being held down then why would she be in such a good place? It was effort and smarts that got her somewhere. Same with other black people I have known, but my life means I only meet educated black people.

Madame C.J. Walker had become one of the very first African American millionaires in 1911. A year in which sixty-three black folks had been lynched in this country (more than one a week), and at a time when obviously all would agree overt racial oppression of African Americans was the norm.

Of course it’s true that some black folks have done extraordinarily well in this society. No one ever suggested the impossibility of such a thing. But she achieved in spite of the system, not because of it.

That's what KILL white supremacist like you.

White supremacists, I’m starting to realize, don’t really believe what they’re saying (not deep down) You look around and see that light skin is a recessive trait. You see the economies of the white west faltering, slowly (or perhaps not so slowly), being challenged by that of China. You see black people excelling in any arena where we are given full and equal opportunity (not enough arenas, to be sure, but still) you see a world in which global white supremacy is everywhere being challenged. In which the white world’s militaries are incapable of subduing a rag-tag bunch of insurgents, with darker skin.

6. That's the thing Dennis, I do not buy into victimhood. Sure, bad things happened in the past to everybody, but we are living today and you are living in a country where the BBC specifically hires non whites. What more do you want? Affirmative action? You have it.

Calm down. The BBC is still very white at the top. Happy now ?

Plus I'm pretty sure you know that white men with a criminal record are more likely to get a a job than a black man without one.

I'm pretty sure you know this

Happy now ?

Then you have arguments for reparations. From whom to who? And where does that end?

No one deserves reparations more than black Americans. Black Americans who built the wealth of the USA.

Slavery was sanctioned by the federal government, and all those UNDER the government profited from free Black labor. So the same government & its subjects owe Black people for the free labor that accumulated ALL the wealth today. Your ancestors PROFITED for their "sins". And the PROFITS for those sins were passed down generationally to YOU. And those profits have been racially locked into the dominant society AWAY from the descendants of slaves

In order to justify American slavery, a culture of vile anti-Black racism was created and placed into ALL AREAS of activity. That systematic culture has been passed down TODAY and it has magnified into genocidal proportions at this point

Thus I believe in starting with yourself and getting an education

Education is part of the system of white supremacy because most teachers have lower expectations of black kids

Black kids are punished more harshly than white kids for minor behavioral infractions, even if they commit those infractions no more frequently than whites.

Black children are tracked into basic and remedial level classes while white kids are tracked into advanced and honors classes (whether or not they show promise and even sometimes quite a bit less)

Why are predominantly Black school districts are under-funded ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts under-staffed with inexperienced teachers ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts denied books ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts denied microscopes and other lab equipment ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts always have hazardous waste near by black schools ?
Why are predominantly Black school districts always have to cut art and music classes, sports teams and sometimes hot meals in a cafeteria ?

earning some money,

All the jobs are controlled by the white supremacists.

That's why people with white sounds names are preferred and why job discrimination for black people is rife and why black ppl with degrees are more likely to be out of work than whites

saving some money

And all the banks are controlled by the white supremacists

and building a decent life. It isn't that hard.

Yeah sure if your white.

However, from what I hear about US schools the same patterns exist and the black parents are more likely to be less involved in their education, be encouraged by peers to look down on learning, and thus it all starts from that rather than systemic racism.

Key words

"From what you hear" And that's the thing you don't know anything

[TitoFan]

Denilson, you must excuse our friend Gandalf.

He, as opposed to the rest of us, still gives a shit about whatever you have to say.

[Denilson-The-Comeback]

Factually so and having lived in East Asia I have seen the difference in nurturing. Kids are raised to be doctors and teachers. Kids are raised learning languages and complex Mathematics as children. Kids are pushed to achieve within the bounds of strong family networks.

Fk you talking about ?

I think about the Asian women working twelve hours a day in sweatshops to make clothes for people you; They ain't Doctors and teachers. I think about the Asian families whose members have to put in eighty hours a week just to keep their heads above water; They ain't Doctors and teachers.

If you look at ethnic Koreans in Japan and the Burakumin there you'll find the same kind of consistent under performance relative to the dominant Japanese in terms of education and employment status. Both are targets of discrimination and treated like sh*t and although they are culturally and genetically indistinguishable from other Koreans or Japanese, they are consistently found at the bottom of Japanese society, and do worse than others in Japan and Korea.

This kinda debunks your notion of pan-Asian cultural superiority, it also suggests that a group’s caste status influences group outcomes: much as with blacks in the U.S., whose position has been similar to the Burakumin and ethnic Koreans in Japan.

Even when you look at so called Asians success this doesn’t translate into greater financial success nor job security.

This is evident in the Ivy League’s admissions.

They reject Asian applicants with higher GPAs and SATs than white students because they do not want more than 15% of the student body to be Asian. They apply these stereotypes because they do not want a c.h.i.n.k.s and g.o.oks making big bucks on Wall Street. They want a white boy to make big bucks on Wall Street, because of course, only white men are suitable for any big job. Right ?

Even the over 100 Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) dedicated to the advancement of education for blacks. However of course white supremacy affects them due to allocation of funding and resources that generally favor historically white universities like the Ivy League.

Not to mention that African Americans tend to be in the poorest areas of America were resources, teachers and local area are usually substandard. But then whites supremacists say blacks are stupid. Well why go to such efforts to fk shit up ? I mean were just gonna mess up everything. Right ?

White social domination makes sure white schools out compete with black schools.

but there is the genetic argument that won't go away

So according to your logic and albino man is not the same race as his parents because he is absolutely white ? Even though he was born out of a normal woman. Hence albinos are a different race ? Since they are genetically different than their parents. So albinos are a race of beings who are born of different race ?



So this black couple who gave birth to a white child are a different species ?

There is no clear, objective way to divide living humans into races that is based on biology. Are there three races? Six? Seven? How do you tell? And where do you draw the lines between them? And why ?

Race is skin deep, at best any two humans are 99.9% genetically the same, according to the Human Genome Project. And even that 0.1% is mostly made up of individual differences. Only 6.3% of that 0.1% comes from differences between races.

And I’m not into all this “We are the same”

But many scientists worked really hard on finding working definition of race as a biological fact. They all failed. They all failed not because genetic differences can’t be observed between various humans (after all, if there weren’t mDNA differences, we wouldn’t know much about human maternal ancestry).

They all failed because genetic differences do not support social races, races that divide people into (pardon my words) “black”, “white”, “yellow” and “red”.

Races have pretty much the same set of genes, just in different frequencies. And even those frequencies do not always fall along the lines of race. Skin colour changes as you go north to south. The frequency of blood type B changes as you go east to west

[TitoFan]

Denilson continues talking about white supremacy.

Meanwhile............

[walrus]

Omg brother big D is worse than the transphobia thread.