The Brexit Thread

[Beanz]

It is hardly unsolicited or vitriol it is a fact that you have so much hostility toward Europe and my family you think nothing of comparing the EU and ordinary German people to Hitler and the Nazis. It seems like an obsession for you.

I am not like you and Gandalf. I am not interested in playing identity politics or subscribing to your very media led view of a world thousands of miles away from you. I do not speak from a place of ignorance. The Gilet Jaunes are a very interesting case in point that you are completely misunderstanding in your rush to claim something that is protesting the very neoliberal values you subscribe to. Those protests are not about the left or the right but they are about protesting the disgusting wealth inequality you venerate. You and Gandalf have way more in common in your aspirations with Macron and his gold desk than you ever will with the Yellow Vests.

You will believe what you want to believe because your entire outlook is based on fear and negativity fueled by angry little ex pats who surround themselves with sycophants in order to avoid growing up. If their videos are what you gorge on and that is true of both you and Gandalf then no wonder your fantasy belief system is so skewed. I am not a huge EU fan however you have tried to spin it but I am a realist and a pragmatist. I also do not share your xenophobia.

So while you both froth at the mouth I am grateful that in the real world I have a yellow jacket under my car seat for when we go just across the water and visit France. A country that thanks to the EU is treating my Mrs Dad in a French hospital today.


At no cost thanks to a principle and model of healthcare that you would see destroyed in order to maximise profits for American companies. You do not act like our friends. Under Trump you are the kind of country we should be fearing way, way more then Europe or the EU. Your track record is appalling.


That does not mean i subscribe to a lot of the bureaucratic nonsense or the MIC upon which your own precious ultra capitalist hell depends in order to forever sustain profits, but it does mean that i can see that for the most part the good outweighs the bad. You are lecturing me from a country that has fucked over half the world in order to maintain a system you keep telling us is amazing as though you really give a fuck about Britain, a country you want to see smashed into a fuzzy play dough model of your own.

[El Kabong]

It is hardly unsolicited or vitriol it is a fact that you have so much hostility toward Europe and my family you think nothing of comparing the EU and ordinary German people to Hitler and the Nazis. It seems like an obsession for you.

I don't have hostility toward Europe I have hostility toward the EU....they aren't the same thing. Neither the EU leaders nor Angela Merkel are "ordinary German person(s)". I haven't mentioned your family directly at all, but man they sure do seem to get around.

I am not like you and Gandalf. I am not interested in playing identity politics or subscribing to your very media led view of a world thousands of miles away from you. I do not speak from a place of ignorance. The Gilet Jaunes are a very interesting case in point that you are completely misunderstanding in your rush to claim something that is protesting the very neoliberal values you subscribe to. Those protests are not about the left or the right but they are about protesting the disgusting wealth inequality you venerate. You and Gandalf have way more in common in your aspirations with Macron and his gold desk than you ever will with the Yellow Vests.

Agreed, you aren't like me in the slightest, nor are you like Gandalf and why you decided to name drop him here . You don't play identity politics? Then why keep calling me a bigot and a xenophobe and racist? How exactly am I misunderstanding the Gilet Jaunes? I guess the armored vehicle with the EU flag on it utilized to quell their protests was only trying to help them. I don't care for Macron at all. I didn't mind Sarkozy as much, but even he was a bit cozy with Obama whom I don't trust for various reasons.

You will believe what you want to believe because your entire outlook is based on fear and negativity fueled by angry little ex pats who surround themselves with sycophants in order to avoid growing up. If their videos are what you gorge on and that is true of both you and Gandalf then no wonder your fantasy belief system is so skewed. I am not a huge EU fan however you have tried to spin it but I am a realist and a pragmatist. I also do not share your xenophobia.

Again you bring up Gandalf which will only have him responding to these posts and wondering what the fuck is happening, but I suppose you know what you're doing.

So while you both froth at the mouth I am grateful that in the real world I have a yellow jacket under my car seat for when we go just across the water and visit France. A country that thanks to the EU is treating my Mrs Dad in a French hospital today.

Oh so you're a poser and why would her Dad go to France for treatment? Isn't the NHS totally tits and everyone should want to replicate it? That family, boy do they ever get around

At no cost thanks to a principle and model of healthcare that you would see destroyed in order to maximise profits for American companies. You do not act like our friends. Under Trump you are the kind of country we should be fearing way, way more then Europe or the EU. Your track record is appalling.

Yeah that "no cost healthcare model" doesn't really jive with the "Bring all the 'refugees' in model of immigration". Our track record like....ending the Korean War, not getting involved more in Syria? But hey it's ok I mean it's not like your nation attempted to aid and abet plotters to take out Trump....oh wait.

That does not mean i subscribe to a lot of the bureaucratic nonsense or the MIC upon which your own precious ultra capitalist hell depends in order to forever sustain profits, but it does mean that i can see that for the most part the good outweighs the bad. You are lecturing me from a country that has fucked over half the world in order to maintain a system you keep telling us is amazing as though you really give a fuck about Britain, a country you want to see smashed into a fuzzy play dough model of your own.

If that's what you get from what I post then I guess you either are viewing it from a skewed perspective or misunderstanding what I'm posting.


Good chat.

[Beanz]

It is the law in France to have a yellow vest in your car in case of breakdown you dullard . It is not posing it is something you do when France is not some abstract notion that you cry about.That is why the protesters wear them to protest about the poor being targeted by YOUR people. Just like when YOUR people implement a no deal Brexit the huge price increases in food will disproportionately affect the poor. Including the working poor that you and your pal Gandalf have attacked non stop while you regurgitate the crap the mainstream media tell you to, whilst ignoring the actual opinion of Brits that contradict those lies. And the Mrs Dad is in France because it is cheaper for pensioners to live there then here for much of the year, and he was taken ill while living there. He did not go there for treatment he was already there and a reciprocal agreement in place kept him safe. I get how you don't want hear anything positive or to learn anything about Europe or Britain because you know it all. You think it is weird to travel to countries on your doorstep precisely because you seem to be a confirmed racist and bigot.

Many of the refugees there are in the world are there because your country and my country bombed the shit out of them or sold the weapons that bombed the shit out of them. They are not the main users of the NHS. The NHS is staffed by many immigrants and always has been. You may be disgusted by that just like your economic migrant pal in SK but I am not ashamed of that I am proud of it. I am not a naive apologist like you and NO i do not play identity politics that is why you get so frustrated. You invent a position for me to inhabit because your own outlook is so narrow that is how you see the world. Fuck me I feel sorry for you.

To be honest why would any Brit give a flying fuck what YOU think about Brexit and the EU? Some American bloke in a call centre who thinks he has the answers to the UK's woes

[El Kabong]

It is the law in France to have a yellow vest in your car in case of breakdown you dullard . It is not posing it is something you do when France is not some abstract notion that you cry about.That is why the protesters wear them to protest about the poor being targeted by YOUR people. Just like when YOUR people implement a no deal Brexit the huge price increases in food will disproportionately affect the poor. Including the working poor that you and your pal Gandalf have attacked non stop while you regurgitate the crap the mainstream media tell you to, whilst ignoring the actual opinion of Brits that contradict those lies. And the Mrs Dad is in France because it is cheaper for pensioners to live there then here for much of the year, and he was taken ill while living there. He did not go there for treatment he was already there and a reciprocal agreement in place kept him safe. I get how you don't want hear anything positive or to learn anything about Europe or Britain because you know it all. You think it is weird to travel to countries on your doorstep precisely because you seem to be a confirmed racist and bigot.

Many of the refugees there are in the world are there because your country and my country bombed the shit out of them or sold the weapons that bombed the shit out of them. They are not the main users of the NHS. The NHS is staffed by many immigrants and always has been. You may be disgusted by that just like your economic migrant pal in SK but I am not ashamed of that I am proud of it. I am not a naive apologist like you and NO i do not play identity politics that is why you get so frustrated. You invent a position for me to inhabit because your own outlook is so narrow that is how you see the world. Fuck me I feel sorry for you.

To be honest why would any Brit give a flying fuck what YOU think about Brexit and the EU? Some American bloke in a call centre who thinks he has the answers to the UK's woes

Actually they're wearing the vests because the government has become a bit micro-managey in that they (the government) demand by law that those vests be carried in every car. But by no means is that the crux of their argument with the government. Yes the people are upset about money, and no it's not "my people" hurting them, it's the EU and their massive taxation on things like GAS...see where we come back to the yellow vest/car thing? Brexit will hurt Europe too? That's odd because here I was being told it was only going to hurt Britain, huh, funny how that seems to work...and a no deal Brexit as well, would hurt France specifically...what are the odds . Again you mention Gandalf...what good does that do for you? You have a hard enough time focusing on 1 discussion, why bring in more people?

while you regurgitate the crap the mainstream media tell you to

....yyyyeah, because I totally do that

You think it is weird to travel to countries on your doorstep precisely because you seem to be a confirmed racist and bigot.

I think it's odd to travel specifically for medical reasons when you've got "The greatest healthcare known to man" ....yeah I find that curious. You don't see me going to Canada or Mexico to see doctors and you're quite unlikely to unless the United States decides to have socialized healthcare and thereby ration care.


Yes yes all refugees and immigrants are pure and holy and nothing but good OR they are the problems WE America and Britain have created and so we shall reap the seed we personally sowed. Yeah that seems a bit of a supremacist take if you ask me, but hey you're supposed to be calling ME that instead of me suggesting you don't know that you're doing that. Oopsy poopsie.

You invent a position for me to inhabit because

Well #1 IF I did that it would be due to your trouble in answering direct questions
#2 Aren't you doing that exact same thing to me right now?


Oh so I'm a "fat, trustafarian, call center worker"....I'm trying to think of the other things you've accused me of being but they're just so all over the place it's hard to keep track, but keep it up, it's like reading a MadLib filled out by a retard.

[Beanz]

It is the law in France to have a yellow vest in your car in case of breakdown you dullard . It is not posing it is something you do when France is not some abstract notion that you cry about.That is why the protesters wear them to protest about the poor being targeted by YOUR people. Just like when YOUR people implement a no deal Brexit the huge price increases in food will disproportionately affect the poor. Including the working poor that you and your pal Gandalf have attacked non stop while you regurgitate the crap the mainstream media tell you to, whilst ignoring the actual opinion of Brits that contradict those lies. And the Mrs Dad is in France because it is cheaper for pensioners to live there then here for much of the year, and he was taken ill while living there. He did not go there for treatment he was already there and a reciprocal agreement in place kept him safe. I get how you don't want hear anything positive or to learn anything about Europe or Britain because you know it all. You think it is weird to travel to countries on your doorstep precisely because you seem to be a confirmed racist and bigot.

Many of the refugees there are in the world are there because your country and my country bombed the shit out of them or sold the weapons that bombed the shit out of them. They are not the main users of the NHS. The NHS is staffed by many immigrants and always has been. You may be disgusted by that just like your economic migrant pal in SK but I am not ashamed of that I am proud of it. I am not a naive apologist like you and NO i do not play identity politics that is why you get so frustrated. You invent a position for me to inhabit because your own outlook is so narrow that is how you see the world. Fuck me I feel sorry for you.

To be honest why would any Brit give a flying fuck what YOU think about Brexit and the EU? Some American bloke in a call centre who thinks he has the answers to the UK's woes

Actually they're wearing the vests because the government has become a bit micro-managey in that they (the government) demand by law that those vests be carried in every car. But by no means is that the crux of their argument with the government. Yes the people are upset about money, and no it's not "my people" hurting them, it's the EU and their massive taxation on things like GAS...see where we come back to the yellow vest/car thing? Brexit will hurt Europe too? That's odd because here I was being told it was only going to hurt Britain, huh, funny how that seems to work...and a no deal Brexit as well, would hurt France specifically...what are the odds . Again you mention Gandalf...what good does that do for you? You have a hard enough time focusing on 1 discussion, why bring in more people?

while you regurgitate the crap the mainstream media tell you to

....yyyyeah, because I totally do that

You think it is weird to travel to countries on your doorstep precisely because you seem to be a confirmed racist and bigot.

I think it's odd to travel specifically for medical reasons when you've got "The greatest healthcare known to man" ....yeah I find that curious. You don't see me going to Canada or Mexico to see doctors and you're quite unlikely to unless the United States decides to have socialized healthcare and thereby ration care.


Yes yes all refugees and immigrants are pure and holy and nothing but good OR they are the problems WE America and Britain have created and so we shall reap the seed we personally sowed. Yeah that seems a bit of a supremacist take if you ask me, but hey you're supposed to be calling ME that instead of me suggesting you don't know that you're doing that. Oopsy poopsie.

You invent a position for me to inhabit because

Well #1 IF I did that it would be due to your trouble in answering direct questions
#2 Aren't you doing that exact same thing to me right now?


Oh so I'm a "fat, trustafarian, call center worker"....I'm trying to think of the other things you've accused me of being but they're just so all over the place it's hard to keep track, but keep it up, it's like reading a MadLib filled out by a retard.

You are not just an idiot you think you are an expert on everything. Like I already said I do not speak from a position of ignorance. That doesn't make me an expert but i know when to listen or ask rather than trust some third hand MSM accounts.

I know full well why they wear yellow vests because of the fuel rise taxes etc but also because i have friends here and over there who have put boots on the ground because either they live there, they have friends and family there and so visit often or because in my brothers case the whole Gilet Jaunes movement formed the basis of several essays which formed one of his research proposals. But no go ahead you tell me from fucking thousands of miles away how you and Gandalf, who laughingly actually post videos from Murdoch and The Sun and laud Boris and the Billionaire MSM that you fucking lap up when it suits you, have the inside edge and don't just regurgitate the propaganda from the mainstream media. The whole Gilet Jaunes movement is an organic thing in a long tradition that include everyone across the spectrum from Fascists to Leftists and everything inbetween. A truly libertarian idea that would stick right in the craw of your identity politics driven agenda. Much like the anti-fascist movement or the Hong Kong riots you can not comprehend a broad coalition of common ordinary people working together because you and Gandalf want to be part of the Elite. You proclaim yourselves as special constantly reminding us how your numpty heavily re-dacted version of the West is Best and how you are both flying the flag for white kids with guns..security guards with guns, cops with guns, armies to shoot protestors with guns etc

When actual evidence of a conspiracy against the British people is presented to either of you it is of no interest unless is supports your blinkered and backwards racist agenda. Instead you actively promote the work of Cummings, Banks, Farrage, Murdoch, the Barclay Brothers etc.

(And again as evidence that neither of you even read let alone listen to anyone else but yourselves and your inane repetitive bullshit about welfare and single mothers and immigrants and white rights for terminally dull virtue signally hipsters, my Mrs Dad did not travel to France for treatment at all. He has been there for months and that got taken ill.)

It is amazing how a pair of Liverpool 'fans' like you two, neither of whom come from or live in the city are so easily led by Boris and Murdoch who both accused 'pissed up' Liverpool fans of causing tragedy, and yet you think you are sticking up for the average working bloke or that you both dare to suggest Boris represents them. Boris? another elite prick from fucking Eton and the Bullingdon club.

George is on the button here and so is the Taxi Driver that Gandalf threw under a bus when he spoke up for the working poor to much and refused to smear Corbyn with lies ( notice how Gandalf stopped posting his stuff when Molyneuax and Peterson told him who was censored and not censored ? much like you with McInnes and Fox and the fucked up QAnon shit that you repeat without ever engaging your brain)

[Beanz]

Disaster capitalism is not in the interests of ordinary working people

From the financial data publicly available, Byline Times can reveal that currently £4,563,350,000 (£4.6 billion) of aggregate short positions on a ‘no deal’ Brexit have been taken out by hedge funds that directly or indirectly bankrolled Boris Johnson’s leadership campaign.
Most of these firms also donated to Vote Leave and took out short positions on the EU Referendum result. The ones which didn’t typically didn’t exist at that time but are invariably connected via directorships to companies that did.
Another £3,711,000,000 (£3.7 billion) of these short positions have been taken out by firms that donated to the Vote Leave campaign, but did not donate directly to the Johnson leadership campaign.
Currently, £8,274,350,000 (£8.3 billion) of aggregate short positions has been taken out by hedge funds connected to the Prime Minister and his Vote Leave campaign, run by his advisor Dominic Cummings, on a ‘no deal’ Brexit.
THE DISASTER CAPITALISM CLUB

Vote Leave Backers who Made Billions from Brexit



Peter Jukes


Does this £8 billion bet explain why the Prime Minister has said that he would rather “die in a ditch” before asking the EU for an extension? Is it the reason why Johnson is willing to defy the Benn Act that stops a ‘no deal’ Brexit? Is the £8 billion any kind of motivation to prorogue Parliament?
Under the Ministerial Code, Government ministers must have “no actual or perceived conflicts of interest”. But what could be a bigger conflict of interest than those bankrolling the Prime Minister also having a vast financial interest in a catastrophe for Britain?

[Kirkland Laing]

Disaster capitalism is not in the interests of ordinary working people

From the financial data publicly available, Byline Times can reveal that currently £4,563,350,000 (£4.6 billion) of aggregate short positions on a ‘no deal’ Brexit have been taken out by hedge funds that directly or indirectly bankrolled Boris Johnson’s leadership campaign.
Most of these firms also donated to Vote Leave and took out short positions on the EU Referendum result. The ones which didn’t typically didn’t exist at that time but are invariably connected via directorships to companies that did.
Another £3,711,000,000 (£3.7 billion) of these short positions have been taken out by firms that donated to the Vote Leave campaign, but did not donate directly to the Johnson leadership campaign.
Currently, £8,274,350,000 (£8.3 billion) of aggregate short positions has been taken out by hedge funds connected to the Prime Minister and his Vote Leave campaign, run by his advisor Dominic Cummings, on a ‘no deal’ Brexit.
THE DISASTER CAPITALISM CLUB

Vote Leave Backers who Made Billions from Brexit



Peter Jukes


Does this £8 billion bet explain why the Prime Minister has said that he would rather “die in a ditch” before asking the EU for an extension? Is it the reason why Johnson is willing to defy the Benn Act that stops a ‘no deal’ Brexit? Is the £8 billion any kind of motivation to prorogue Parliament?
Under the Ministerial Code, Government ministers must have “no actual or perceived conflicts of interest”. But what could be a bigger conflict of interest than those bankrolling the Prime Minister also having a vast financial interest in a catastrophe for Britain?

It honestly doesn't explain anything. There's probably just as much money bet by similar firms the other way. The people on the other side of those eight billion short trades know just as much about how this might play out as the people making them. And eight billion is really not a lot of money believe it or not. On the amount of money being bet one way or the other over stocks, bonds, currency and various derivatives trades it's a drop in the bucket. Also, too, the tax evasion laws. There are endless ways to avoid taxes even when those laws come in. It's not that either.

What it is -- and it's nothing to do with Boris, he's just a ruthlessly ambitious cunt who campaigned for leave without expecting to win but expecting it to boost his chance sof becoming prime minister -- is that we have a bunch of free market nationalistic morons who believe that Britain can somehow become Singapore if we leave the EU. They want to scrap the NHS and most of the benefits system and have a low regulation low wage trickle down economy despite the evidence from every major economy over the last forty years that this is a disastrous idea. That's what we're heading towards too because we have a fundamentally thick electorate who are now motivated by nationalism more than anything else. When this results in a gigantic recession they'll use the massive budget problems to start chopping away at the NHS and the rest of the welfare state and just amp up the nationalism and racism when things get worse to help them stay in power. Things haven't even started to get bad yet but it won't be long now.

[Gandalf]

In fact to make it clear where I stand I will reiterate one more time. I am an economic socialist, meaning those with excessive wealth pay more in tax than those with little wealth. We create a society of equality of opportunity and the outcome is whatever you decide it should be. That is another reason I believe in CONTROLLED migration as welfare is for those within who need it and the jobs for those within who can mostly do them. British people first.

My stance on the EU is the same as on Scotland or Hong Kong. I think people should run their own countries free from the control of supranational states. I wanted the Scots to leave, I want Hong Kong to be left alone. There is no comparison of Hong Kong and Remainers. The Hong Kong protestors are more akin to Brexit supporters as it is about being against an over controlling super power. Working class people mostly want to leave, it is the middle classes who want to remain. Ordinary people just want their country and if some are getting rich from it, then that is inevitable. Financiers gamble and that is neither here nor there with me. It is the principle of the matter. You can have an image of Mogg in your head all you like with me, Beanz. However, I am not someone born into wealth and what I have is tiny by comparison, so rather than being a 'Tory all about the money' you will find it is actually something far more simple and aligned with the ordinary man which is a belief in a nation state making its own decisions and the electorate in turn holding the parties to account. I always put forth Iceland as a model I rather like.

At the end of the day No Deal will shock the EU who is laughing at you and it gives Britain a chance to get on with things and readjust and readjust it will. Being part of the EU has not increased standards of living for many countries in it. Look at the state of Southern Europe today and the debts of France and the chaos of letting in millions of people all too many of whom have gone on to rape and murder innocent people in Europe. It is awful. Britain leaving sends a message to others and the EU knows it whence behind closed doors admitting it is their intention to make things worse. It sounds like an abusive relationship. You want to leave and they want to 'make it worse'? That is not operating in good faith and so that is why I prefer a good shock and the people know that there will be a temporary hit on the exchange rate and a few things like that, but all you care about is the money, so rather than me being the money man it is the only argument remainers have: 'Our coffee will go up for a bit. Aaaargh! Who will massage my feet? Aaargh!' Lame. Life will go on and there is indeed more to life than money and the good times will return. The world did not collapse after the Brexit vote and neither will it collapse with a No Deal.

Plus Labour is all over the place and ready for extinction. Listen to this nonsense. Corbyn shown telling lies and Thornberry all over the place. Get out and get it over and done with. Have some pride and faith. You are British, so quit with the sob stories because your Dad sowed his seeds on a spree across Europe. Nobody cares.