Not GGG bashing but...

[TitoFan]

He didn't say "which" Chavez.

[powerpuncher]

He didn't say "which" Chavez.

Ha

[Fatboxingfan]

Junior Mints 🥊

[powerpuncher]

Just for fun, I will compare Canelo to the three guys Fenster said that he is on par with in greatness. I’m going to guess that afterwards he will try to back pedal saying it’s not what he meant, but oh well. I will do it any way. Canelo could still possibly become an ATG. He is still young and if he proves to be extremely durable, then he could have a long reign at the top of the boxing world and become on the same tier as these guys. Anyways, here I go.

De la Hoya: five years into his career, he beat an ATG in Whitaker. Close fight that could have gone either way. Whitaker is on the same tier as Mayweather. Eight years into his career (I get that I’m not counting amateur experience) Canelo fought Mayweather and got completely shut out. Coincidentally, both were 23 years old. Both of their opponents were past their best I would say. De la Hoya fought and lost a very controversial decision to Trinidad. Most people, including me, thought the Oscar should have easily won. Canelo fought GGG twice and won once and had one draw. Majority of people thought that GGG deserved to win both fights. I would guess that I could compare Trinidad and GGG in greatness. Let’s just go with it. So I would say that Oscar handled Tito much easier than Canelo handled GGG. Oscar lost a SD against Mosley and then got robbed again in their second fight. Most everyone saw de la Hoya winning that fight. Mosley is another ATG fighter. He also fought Mayweather at the end of his career and gave him a really close fight (who we already mentioned shut out Canelo). Canelo fought close fights against Lara and Trout. I’m not sure which of Oscars opponents I would compare those two to, but let’s go with Vargas comparing their level of greatness. Oscar knocked out Vargas and convincingly won. You could maybe come back with de la Hoya had a close win against Quartay.

The point is, I know that all fighters will have some close fights no matter what. It’s the nature of boxing. Styles make fights. The difference is that Oscar proved to be able to convincingly beat great opponents on occasion and even have debateable decisions with truly elite fighters (Whitaker and Mayweather). Canelo has not proven that at all. Not saying he still can’t, but he is not at all on that level. His resume does not rival Oscars in the slightest IMO.

Bhop: Bhop could be compared to GGG. A lot of his greatness comes from his longevity. Bhop also completely dismantled top guys in the division. Absolutely embarrassed Tito, the only person to stop De la Hoya (I get that the weight difference was pretty significant but it’s still a pretty good accomplishment), shut out Pavlik who was supposed to be the next big thing and was the MAN at middleweight at the time, went up in weight and destroyed Tarver who was at the top of his game.

Again, he had some close/controversial losses (Calzaghe and Taylor) against good/great fighters, but that’s fine because he proved to be able to completely dominate some good and great fighters. As I’ve said countless times, Canelo has yet to dominate a really good fighter. He beat Jacobs convincingly but he didn’t dominate and every other good fighter he has faced it has been a close decision that could have gone either way.

Chavez: his resume may not be as good as the previous two, but like Bhop, he went on a tear and just wrecked his competition. He got a controversial draw against Whitaker, but proved to at least be able to hang with him. He fought a lot of solid fighters and reigned at the top for a long time. Again, he didn’t just squeak by these good fighters, he absolutely destroyed some of them. Let’s just look at one. A lot of people say that he ruined Camacho by how badly he beat him. Canelo doesn’t even have one match that he beat a fighter near that caliber that convincingly.

Really long post (I’m taking my post advice from @TitoFan) but I’m showing how ridiculous it is to say that Canelo is on the same tier as those guys. I agree that these fighters are a tier below people like Mayweather, Duran, Ali, etc, but Canelo is at very least a tier below them. If not two tiers. He hasn’t proven yet to be more than a great fighter that can get close decisions against good fighters.

[TitoFan]

A note about BHop, Trinidad, and DLH. Trinidad and DLH faced off at 147. From there they both went to 154, then to 160. Both lost to Hopkins, a lifelong middleweight, at 160. But whereas Trinidad had KO'ed William Joppy prior to that, another middleweight champion, DLH's foray into middleweight wasn't nearly as impressive. Against BHop, Trinidad went the full fight before being TKO'ed in the last round. Against BHop, DLH never looked like he belonged, before being dispatched with a glancing liver shot in the 9th. Not really trying to make a point here, other than to put my own twist on Trinidad and DLH in the heavier weights.

[powerpuncher]

A note about BHop, Trinidad, and DLH. Trinidad and DLH faced off at 147. From there they both went to 154, then to 160. Both lost to Hopkins, a lifelong middleweight, at 160. But whereas Trinidad had KO'ed William Joppy prior to that, another middleweight champion, DLH's foray into middleweight wasn't nearly as impressive. Against BHop, Trinidad went the full fight before being TKO'ed in the last round. Against BHop, DLH never looked like he belonged, before being dispatched with a glancing liver shot in the 9th. Not really trying to make a point here, other than to put my own twist on Trinidad and DLH in the heavier weights.

I agree. De la Hoya didn’t really ever belong at middleweight. Trinidad may have been the same, but as you said, he did dismantle Joppy. He at least proved to be able to hold his own at middleweight. De la Hoya only proved to struggle with Sturm at middleweight. Also, De la Hoya started lighter than welterweight. Trinidad was a full blown welterweight.