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Thread: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    I am not going to criticize Joe Louis accomplishments in his 25 defences. As for him beating Ali, he was too small and slow.

    Jack Johnson was way ahead of his time and was huge for his time period with the skills to match. Wonder how Johnson would manage 12 and 15 rounds compared to the 45 he was doing?
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

  2. #2
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    I am not going to criticize Joe Louis accomplishments in his 25 defences. As for him beating Ali, he was too small and slow.

    Jack Johnson was way ahead of his time and was huge for his time period with the skills to match. Wonder how Johnson would manage 12 and 15 rounds compared to the 45 he was doing?
    You're not going to criticize it because you can't. You could say "Who really did he beat?" but I'd counter with "OK then who did he duck?". Louis was 6'2...too slow? Where do you get that? He was fast enough to knock out the majority of the fighters he faced.


    Jack Johnson was 6'0 & 1/2", Dempsey was 6'1, Jess Willard was 6'6 & 1/2" ....so "huge" for his time period....meh John L. Sullivan was 5'10 & 1/2", Jim Corbett was 6'1, James J. Jeffries was 6'1 & 1/2". Not really all that much of a "giant" unless you're talking personality and then yeah sure thing.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    I am not going to criticize Joe Louis accomplishments in his 25 defences. As for him beating Ali, he was too small and slow.

    Jack Johnson was way ahead of his time and was huge for his time period with the skills to match. Wonder how Johnson would manage 12 and 15 rounds compared to the 45 he was doing?
    You're not going to criticize it because you can't. You could say "Who really did he beat?" but I'd counter with "OK then who did he duck?". Louis was 6'2...too slow? Where do you get that? He was fast enough to knock out the majority of the fighters he faced.


    Jack Johnson was 6'0 & 1/2", Dempsey was 6'1, Jess Willard was 6'6 & 1/2" ....so "huge" for his time period....meh John L. Sullivan was 5'10 & 1/2", Jim Corbett was 6'1, James J. Jeffries was 6'1 & 1/2". Not really all that much of a "giant" unless you're talking personality and then yeah sure thing.
    Ok, remember I did not ask for this, you made me do it.

    Joe did not duck anyone but whoever they were they were not of the calibre or league of Liston, Frazier and Foreman.

    Remember Billy Conn, if a light heavy can out box Joe who was a slow starter and got knocked down early in some of his defences what would a full grown prime Ali do?

    Jack Johnson I believe weighed over 15 stones which was heavy for that time period. He had great boxing skills too. I was not talking about height.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

  4. #4
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Ok, remember I did not ask for this, you made me do it.

    Joe did not duck anyone but whoever they were they were not of the calibre or league of Liston, Frazier and Foreman.

    Remember Billy Conn, if a light heavy can out box Joe who was a slow starter and got knocked down early in some of his defences what would a full grown prime Ali do?

    Jack Johnson I believe weighed over 15 stones which was heavy for that time period. He had great boxing skills too. I was not talking about height.
    I made you do NOTHING. Bring your tired ass arguments. Joe didn't duck anyone, THANK YOU for proving, my point.

    Billy Conn got BEAT....twice. You can do nothing but speculate as to what a full grown prime Ali would do...Joe Louis certainly had better nights than the Conn fight and Ali certainly had worse nights than the Williams fight. You make the mistake of taking the best of the best of the best of Ali and then holding up an overall poor Joe Louis performance (one where he needed a KO and GOT IT mind you) and say "You think this could beat this?"....why would it not be Ali as Conn who boxes perfectly for 15 rounds and then gets KO'd late trying to finish the show? Why in your mind does that NEVER happen? Surely Ali never suffered a KO loss like that BUT Joe Louis certainly dealt those out.


    And that's the problem in a nutshell with this game...Marciano never lost a single fight and yet "Well he's too small to beat Ali" ....well I guess Marciano stood no chance vs the larger Rex Layne....oh wait.


    I'm not hating on Ali by saying he's beatable, I'm merely pointing out Joe Louis' statistical achievement which no heavyweight has ever matched (or probably ever will) match. It's a special achievement and worthy of praise and accolade.


    15 stone....210 pounds....again not "giant"

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Ok, remember I did not ask for this, you made me do it.

    Joe did not duck anyone but whoever they were they were not of the calibre or league of Liston, Frazier and Foreman.

    Remember Billy Conn, if a light heavy can out box Joe who was a slow starter and got knocked down early in some of his defences what would a full grown prime Ali do?

    Jack Johnson I believe weighed over 15 stones which was heavy for that time period. He had great boxing skills too. I was not talking about height.
    I made you do NOTHING. Bring your tired ass arguments. Joe didn't duck anyone, THANK YOU for proving, my point.

    Billy Conn got BEAT....twice. You can do nothing but speculate as to what a full grown prime Ali would do...Joe Louis certainly had better nights than the Conn fight and Ali certainly had worse nights than the Williams fight. You make the mistake of taking the best of the best of the best of Ali and then holding up an overall poor Joe Louis performance (one where he needed a KO and GOT IT mind you) and say "You think this could beat this?"....why would it not be Ali as Conn who boxes perfectly for 15 rounds and then gets KO'd late trying to finish the show? Why in your mind does that NEVER happen? Surely Ali never suffered a KO loss like that BUT Joe Louis certainly dealt those out.


    And that's the problem in a nutshell with this game...Marciano never lost a single fight and yet "Well he's too small to beat Ali" ....well I guess Marciano stood no chance vs the larger Rex Layne....oh wait.


    I'm not hating on Ali by saying he's beatable, I'm merely pointing out Joe Louis' statistical achievement which no heavyweight has ever matched (or probably ever will) match. It's a special achievement and worthy of praise and accolade.


    15 stone....210 pounds....again not "giant"
    You made me do it and it hurts critizing the great Joe Louis.

    Whilst i said Joe did not duck anyone you conveniently ignored the important fact that you can not dispute (but you will now try) that he never fought anyone of the calibre that Ali fought. Frazier, Foreman and Liston were great boxers better than anything Joe fought.

    It is more than speculation that Joe had trouble with movers and Ali was all wrong for Louis.


    It is not just size that Ali had the advantage it was speed and skill.


    25 defences is a sign of a great heavyweight champion and i am not belittling that.


    15 stone is big for those times when Johnson fought.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

  6. #6
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    You made me do it and it hurts critizing the great Joe Louis.

    Whilst i said Joe did not duck anyone you conveniently ignored the important fact that you can not dispute (but you will now try) that he never fought anyone of the calibre that Ali fought. Frazier, Foreman and Liston were great boxers better than anything Joe fought.

    It is more than speculation that Joe had trouble with movers and Ali was all wrong for Louis.


    It is not just size that Ali had the advantage it was speed and skill.


    25 defences is a sign of a great heavyweight champion and i am not belittling that.


    15 stone is big for those times when Johnson fought.



    So he didn't duck anyone BUT he also didn't fight guys who weren't around during his era...gee how very dare he


    And Ali what didn't have trouble with Joe Frazier? Compare just a left hand (all Frazier had when he beat Ali) to Louis' arsenal...dynamite in both hands, rarely misjudged distance, very accurate and devastating when he landed. I must be imagining things but didn't Henry Cooper almost KO Ali? Is 'enry on par with Louis in terms of greatness as a boxer?


    Ali had speed and size advantages over most of the guys he fought....he still lost fights.


    25 in a row is statistically the GREATEST


    John L. Sullivan was just as big ...I don't doubt Johnson's greatness, just saying 'Galveston Giant' is a bit much. Bigger than the common man, perhaps, but still. Great fighter, giant personality, exceptionally tall? Nah. Exceptionally muscular? Nah. Just an exceptional fighter.

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    Default Re: Can ANYBODY in history defeat 1967 Ali?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    You made me do it and it hurts critizing the great Joe Louis.

    Whilst i said Joe did not duck anyone you conveniently ignored the important fact that you can not dispute (but you will now try) that he never fought anyone of the calibre that Ali fought. Frazier, Foreman and Liston were great boxers better than anything Joe fought.

    It is more than speculation that Joe had trouble with movers and Ali was all wrong for Louis.


    It is not just size that Ali had the advantage it was speed and skill.


    25 defences is a sign of a great heavyweight champion and i am not belittling that.


    15 stone is big for those times when Johnson fought.



    So he didn't duck anyone BUT he also didn't fight guys who weren't around during his era...gee how very dare he


    And Ali what didn't have trouble with Joe Frazier? Compare just a left hand (all Frazier had when he beat Ali) to Louis' arsenal...dynamite in both hands, rarely misjudged distance, very accurate and devastating when he landed. I must be imagining things but didn't Henry Cooper almost KO Ali? Is 'enry on par with Louis in terms of greatness as a boxer?


    Ali had speed and size advantages over most of the guys he fought....he still lost fights.


    25 in a row is statistically the GREATEST


    John L. Sullivan was just as big ...I don't doubt Johnson's greatness, just saying 'Galveston Giant' is a bit much. Bigger than the common man, perhaps, but still. Great fighter, giant personality, exceptionally tall? Nah. Exceptionally muscular? Nah. Just an exceptional fighter.
    Why you rolling your eyes I thought this was a bit of fun?

    I name 3 great heavyweights not because Joe never fought them which is impossible but he never fought anyone as good as them.

    Ali may have been knocked down but he always got back up and had a fantastic chin.

    Wlad was 2nd highest title defences but no one would have him as the 2nd best heavyweight of all time.

    The point about Johnson is a separate point and unrelated to Ali but pointing out Johnson was ahead of his time.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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