What if James Toney campaigned only as a heavyweight?

[Fenster]

My favourite Toney story comes from Dark Trade (if I remember right) - he was on the Morrison-Bentt undercard getting something like $20,000 to defend his title, at the press conference he finds out Bentt is getting $100,000 so goes ballistic calling Morrison a bum, asking why his manager didn't make that fight and threatened to kill everyone at the press conference.

With hindsight he probably would beat Morrison too.

He was too small to compete with prime heavyweights, however, what a chin that sick bastard had? Everyone waffles on about his defence but his granite head made up for 75% of that.

[TitoFan]

That chin probably explains why any televised interview with Toney nowadays should probably be accompanied by captions.

[El Kabong]

'Lights Out' would have SOME success but he obviously did amazing at 160-Cruiser. Plenty of fun fights for him at heavyweight. Toney vs Smokin Bert Cooper would have been pretty epic.

[Beanz]

My favourite Toney story comes from Dark Trade (if I remember right) - he was on the Morrison-Bentt undercard getting something like $20,000 to defend his title, at the press conference he finds out Bentt is getting $100,000 so goes ballistic calling Morrison a bum, asking why his manager didn't make that fight and threatened to kill everyone at the press conference.

With hindsight he probably would beat Morrison too.

He was too small to compete with prime heavyweights, however, what a chin that sick bastard had? Everyone waffles on about his defence but his granite head made up for 75% of that.

Dark Trade is so good I think it can hold it's own even against some great non-boxing novels. That is is an based on the realities of boxing and the characters within it just makes it even more satisfying. I lent it to my younger brother to try and explain what boxing and that particular window/era was like. With things like YouTube he can even go back and watch most of those fights. Mcrae is a great writer and a lovely generous fella with his time too.

Toney was a rare beast but success at heavyweight does not make it his natural weight. He might have had success against Wilder because for large periods of fights Wilder often looks pretty poor. Whether Wilder would have even agreed to fight a prime Toney is disputable, but the scary thing is that Wilder would probably justify making the fight even now if he thought he could get away with it.

[Spicoli]

To stick with the notion of expanding waist bands that might just be a streeetch. Toney is a great, never in question. But first off him saying McCallum waited because of Toneys new found boxing after their first fight might have more to do with Toney losing his very next fight if not for two blind unlicensed judges . A few random things make a fan go hmmm when contemplating a Toney as career heavyweight though

Whose to say he doesn't carry in his walk around weight early on and in turn lose his aggravation and superb mental edge. He'd be comfortable..all buttered up not needing to drive down on himself. May very well cost him some portion of what made him a phenom..that massive chip on his shoulder and ginormous self confidence.

He was also pretty obscure out of Michigan. It's nuts to think he was a 20-1 underdog with Nunn but I guess that's hindsight. Not sure of the local heavyweight scene there for the first few years he'd be working through. Would a young heavyweight Toney find his way with a Manny Steward and Kronk ? What would Jackie Kallens role be and would she have it?

His activity level would probably not be the whirlwind it was. One great attribute of a guy who reminds of 'old school' in many ways was the factory line rate he fought with sometimes going 2 a month. At heavy you'd figure a slow down and a few at technical cruiserweight.

He's still Toney. Again a tremendous all time favorite and great..but he was notorious at timing out some rounds and frankly could lose the motivating fire once in a while. For all the great nights and cemented memories he had some trouble with somewhat similar styles, Griffin, Johnson, Sosa, Oquendo..didn't win that one sorry. At 205 he's still hear the deafening mantra of he's too small but it would be a helluva ride.

[Beanz]

To stick with the notion of expanding waist bands that might just be a streeetch. Toney is a great, never in question. But first off him saying McCallum waited because of Toneys new found boxing after their first fight might have more to do with Toney losing his very next fight if not for two blind unlicensed judges . A few random things make a fan go hmmm when contemplating a Toney as career heavyweight though

Whose to say he doesn't carry in his walk around weight early on and in turn lose his aggravation and superb mental edge. He'd be comfortable..all buttered up not needing to drive down on himself. May very well cost him some portion of what made him a phenom..that massive chip on his shoulder and ginormous self confidence.

He was also pretty obscure out of Michigan. It's nuts to think he was a 20-1 underdog with Nunn but I guess that's hindsight. Not sure of the local heavyweight scene there for the first few years he'd be working through. Would a young heavyweight Toney find his way with a Manny Steward and Kronk ? What would Jackie Kallens role be and would she have it?

His activity level would probably not be the whirlwind it was. One great attribute of a guy who reminds of 'old school' in many ways was the factory line rate he fought with sometimes going 2 a month. At heavy you'd figure a slow down and a few at technical cruiserweight.

He's still Toney. Again a tremendous all time favorite and great..but he was notorious at timing out some rounds and frankly could lose the motivating fire once in a while. For all the great nights and cemented memories he had some trouble with somewhat similar styles, Griffin, Johnson, Sosa, Oquendo..didn't win that one sorry. At 205 he's still hear the deafening mantra of he's too small but it would be a helluva ride.

Bloody lovely stuff mate.

[Gandalf]

Toney will always be my man, but if you can boil down to MW then you are probably not a natural HW. That he could maintain and hold himself even at HW, even when obese, was testament to his talent but also his laziness.

I think Toney has a great shot at beating anyone, but in saying that, he didn't fight HW giants and the bigger he got the more he struggled. He would have to use his feet a lot to get inside of the giants and Toney wasn't fleet of foot when heavy, so it is a bit of a guessing game with him.

On his game, at the right weight and conditioning, he is a problem, but we also saw what he was like when he ballooned.

The truth is Toney at HW was always post prime and also not quite the same after the shoulder surgery. Still excellent, but definitely one of those 'What if....?' questions. I am not sure we saw the best of Toney at HW. He certainly got lazy with it, but always held his own.

[ykdadamaja]

Too short and not enough power. I don't see him putting a hurt on the big guys.

[Master]

Too short and not enough power. I don't see him putting a hurt on the big guys.

Yes an old, fat Toney beat Ruiz, stopped Holyfield, and fought competitively against Rahman and Peter?

Spicoli definitely right on Toney being less hungry and his fighting attitude would be less intense for James.

[Gandalf]

Too short and not enough power. I don't see him putting a hurt on the big guys.

True, but at around 210-220 pounds Toney had speed and movement and was lightning compared to most HW's. He didn't really win his fights with power. He won by landing more and landing the flashier blows. Even against Peter at 38 he was steadily out boxing the much bigger man with a jab and the occasional dazzling lead despite being past it and way too heavy.

Toney only really looked average when FAT or when genuinely just too old. At his best I could see him giving someone like Wlad fits too. Remember how small Toney could crouch and the way his upper body and head moved. I have no doubt he could get inside and being so quick would do work before octopus man tried his thing. There are rumors they sparred once and they wanted none of that again, but I cannot say that is true.

On his day Toney can beat anyone IMO. I just don't think he was a natural HW in the way Wlad or Bruno was. They could not physically boil down like Toney was able to. Great fighter was Toney and I will always re-watch his fights.