Boris Johnson as Prime Minister thread

[Gandalf]

The most far right Party in the nation’s modern history just seized power through a campaign of lies and misinformation. To do this it evaded scrutiny, spent millions of foreign money on deception, and suppressed information. If you voted for that don't you dare ever claim to be a patriot. You are the absolute opposite.

Don't blame the people that voted, blame the party that made itself unvotable.

The people who are stuck on the far left really don't understand democracy do they

Leave wins - let's protest
Labour loses - let's protest

If the Brexiteers lost and then went out protesting then they would be labelled as mindless racist thugs.

If labour won all of their usual strongholds and people went out protesting then they would be labelled as mindless racist thugs.

All the gnashing of teeth isn't going to change anything, I don't like or trust Bozza but he has said that he is going to do his best for the people that loaned him their vote and (unfortunately I was one of those people) and now I've gotta sit tight and wait and see if he is a man of his word (Which I very much doubt)

Beans I think that to say that anyone who voted against Labour is unpatriotic is a bit narrow minded, everyone is entitled to vote for whoever they want for whatever reasons, you might not agree with their reasons but to chuck insults around is a little childish.

I am sure their are millions of people who voted with the very best of intentions. It is also true though that they voted on the basis of a massive pack of outright lies in many cases, and this seems to be being very conveniently buried and forgotten.

There are two separate issues though.

I can understand why many would have voted for Brexit. I have always said you can make a very strong case, even as someone on the left (far left even) for Brexit. One of my brothers voted for Brexit , my step-son voted for Brexit , Master voted for Brexit, but weirdly because I voted, after much soul searching, 'Remain' I have had to put up with years here of being called unpatriotic and undemocratic. Mainly, ironically, by Americans who struggle to know the difference between the UK , England , Scotland and Wales.

In the referendum I voted with England and the UK'S best interest at heart and what would be best for my family and the generations to come. I did the same thing in the General Election, but with the crucial difference that the most important thing was removing a party that is full of bad actors and has already begun selling the United Kingdom off. Not just our assets, like Nuclear to the Chinese and French the NHS and healthcare to corporations like Virgin and ATOS (how unpatriotic is that?), but much of our cultural and traditional heritage as well as showing scant disregard for the environment and one of the things that defines us as a nation, small businesses.


The Tories have made it clear everything is for sale. To be complicit in voting for that is utterly unpatriotic.


They have shown disrespect for all the things supposed Patriots are supposed to venerate - The Sovereignty of Parliament and the The Rule of Law.

The shrinking of the state through Austerity is deeply, deeply unpatriotic. I do not say these things lightly. Patriotism (pride in country) is massively compromised when you shrink and sell of the public services that make it great. It betrays the country and it's people.

Patriotism is not hating the EU. That is an American religion. Fuck that. Patriotism for us Brits is about celebrating and being proud of what we have created together as a nation. Galleries, Parks, Schools, Hospitals, etc not selling them off and closing them en masse.


If people really could not vote for labour there were plenty of alternatives, including 'None of the above',but many former Labour supporters did vote Tory, and so they willingly acted against the best interest of the UK. Just because it was 'To Get Brexit Done' does not instantly absolve them of responsibility and make them patriots.

I am sure many were and continue to be ignorant but to claim because they wave a foreign made flag like the American equivalent, that they are patriotic is just not true.

So everyone is basically wrong. Again.

[Beanz]

The most far right Party in the nation’s modern history just seized power through a campaign of lies and misinformation. To do this it evaded scrutiny, spent millions of foreign money on deception, and suppressed information. If you voted for that don't you dare ever claim to be a patriot. You are the absolute opposite.

Don't blame the people that voted, blame the party that made itself unvotable.

The people who are stuck on the far left really don't understand democracy do they

Leave wins - let's protest
Labour loses - let's protest

If the Brexiteers lost and then went out protesting then they would be labelled as mindless racist thugs.

If labour won all of their usual strongholds and people went out protesting then they would be labelled as mindless racist thugs.

All the gnashing of teeth isn't going to change anything, I don't like or trust Bozza but he has said that he is going to do his best for the people that loaned him their vote and (unfortunately I was one of those people) and now I've gotta sit tight and wait and see if he is a man of his word (Which I very much doubt)

Beans I think that to say that anyone who voted against Labour is unpatriotic is a bit narrow minded, everyone is entitled to vote for whoever they want for whatever reasons, you might not agree with their reasons but to chuck insults around is a little childish.

I am sure their are millions of people who voted with the very best of intentions. It is also true though that they voted on the basis of a massive pack of outright lies in many cases, and this seems to be being very conveniently buried and forgotten.

There are two separate issues though.

I can understand why many would have voted for Brexit. I have always said you can make a very strong case, even as someone on the left (far left even) for Brexit. One of my brothers voted for Brexit , my step-son voted for Brexit , Master voted for Brexit, but weirdly because I voted, after much soul searching, 'Remain' I have had to put up with years here of being called unpatriotic and undemocratic. Mainly, ironically, by Americans who struggle to know the difference between the UK , England , Scotland and Wales.

In the referendum I voted with England and the UK'S best interest at heart and what would be best for my family and the generations to come. I did the same thing in the General Election, but with the crucial difference that the most important thing was removing a party that is full of bad actors and has already begun selling the United Kingdom off. Not just our assets, like Nuclear to the Chinese and French the NHS and healthcare to corporations like Virgin and ATOS (how unpatriotic is that?), but much of our cultural and traditional heritage as well as showing scant disregard for the environment and one of the things that defines us as a nation, small businesses.


The Tories have made it clear everything is for sale. To be complicit in voting for that is utterly unpatriotic.


They have shown disrespect for all the things supposed Patriots are supposed to venerate - The Sovereignty of Parliament and the The Rule of Law.

The shrinking of the state through Austerity is deeply, deeply unpatriotic. I do not say these things lightly. Patriotism (pride in country) is massively compromised when you shrink and sell of the public services that make it great. It betrays the country and it's people.

Patriotism is not hating the EU. That is an American religion. Fuck that. Patriotism for us Brits is about celebrating and being proud of what we have created together as a nation. Galleries, Parks, Schools, Hospitals, etc not selling them off and closing them en masse.


If people really could not vote for labour there were plenty of alternatives, including 'None of the above',but many former Labour supporters did vote Tory, and so they willingly acted against the best interest of the UK. Just because it was 'To Get Brexit Done' does not instantly absolve them of responsibility and make them patriots.

I am sure many were and continue to be ignorant but to claim because they wave a foreign made flag like the American equivalent, that they are patriotic is just not true.

So everyone is basically wrong. Again.

That doesn't make sense.

Democracy works by me voting for what i believe, not what you believe. Millions of people voted like I did or chose to vote for someone other than Johnson's rabble. We may have lost the vote but it does not make us wrong. In fact the onus is now on Johnson to sort it out. For three years a Conservative Government could not sort it out. Over to him, the overstuffed custard scarecrow, to show us all these fantasy imaginary benefits we are supposed to get by sticking two fingers up to our closest and oldest trading partners.

Ha! It so mental you could not make it up.

[Gandalf]

Yes, but you are basically saying that you know better and that they are basically all duped. It couldn't be that actually they want Brexit and that is a priority? The same Brexit that has been delayed by not only May, but the complete resistance of Labour. You don't see how that looked to people?

All Labour had to do was listen. But they didn't and you are displaying the same mentality here with the 'People may have had good intentions, but they were duped and will be shat on'. Well, if so there will be another election in about 5 years.

There is choice but Labour put itself in a terrible position and not only that but had scandalous things in its manifesto. Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered? Why would you give the vote to kids? Why would you not listen to the 70% that want significantly reduced migration. It is because they thought they knew better and did not need to listen.

I can tell you right now what happens when you increase the minimum wage 20%. Unemployment and economic stagnation and you have open borders too. That is mental. I don't know better but have witnessed what happened when a similar experiment was tried here. Big mistake and it hurts everybody. Labour might have costed it out in theory, but had they observed it in practice?

Labour was a risk that was likely going to continue Brexit for years. At least now, good or bad, things can move on.

[Beanz]

Yes, but you are basically saying that you know better and that they are basically all duped. It couldn't be that actually they want Brexit and that is a priority? The same Brexit that has been delayed by not only May, but the complete resistance of Labour. You don't see how that looked to people?

All Labour had to do was listen. But they didn't and you are displaying the same mentality here with the 'People may have had good intentions, but they were duped and will be shat on'. Well, if so there will be another election in about 5 years.

There is choice but Labour put itself in a terrible position and not only that but had scandalous things in its manifesto. Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered? Why would you give the vote to kids? Why would you not listen to the 70% that want significantly reduced migration. It is because they thought they knew better and did not need to listen.

I can tell you right now what happens when you increase the minimum wage 20%. Unemployment and economic stagnation and you have open borders too. That is mental. I don't know better but have witnessed what happened when a similar experiment was tried here. Big mistake and it hurts everybody. Labour might have costed it out in theory, but had they observed it in practice?

Labour was a risk that was likely going to continue Brexit for years. At least now, good or bad, things can move on.

I get that people want Brexit but that does not excuse voting Tory. Plenty of leavers refused to do so.

There was a lot of really good stuff in the Labour manifesto so why can't you bring yourself to admit it. Stuff you preached about for years and now you are back to playing pretend in order to keep to your weird new ideology. I bet you never even read it. Not a word and relied on second hand interpretations.

Just saying things like

"Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered" is sick mate. It is the worse form of gutter journalism. To think that i thought you were better than someone who would repeat tabloid shclok like that. The manifesto promised to decriminalize abortion not make it a free for all. What are you a Catholic now? Do you want to control women so much you want to tell them what to do with their bodies?

It is the same as being so mean that even though you live in SK you want to stop people at the bottom of the rung being paid enough to live on. Forgive me but you sound like a right Victorian Scrooge like bastard of a man

[Gandalf]

Yes, but you are basically saying that you know better and that they are basically all duped. It couldn't be that actually they want Brexit and that is a priority? The same Brexit that has been delayed by not only May, but the complete resistance of Labour. You don't see how that looked to people?

All Labour had to do was listen. But they didn't and you are displaying the same mentality here with the 'People may have had good intentions, but they were duped and will be shat on'. Well, if so there will be another election in about 5 years.

There is choice but Labour put itself in a terrible position and not only that but had scandalous things in its manifesto. Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered? Why would you give the vote to kids? Why would you not listen to the 70% that want significantly reduced migration. It is because they thought they knew better and did not need to listen.

I can tell you right now what happens when you increase the minimum wage 20%. Unemployment and economic stagnation and you have open borders too. That is mental. I don't know better but have witnessed what happened when a similar experiment was tried here. Big mistake and it hurts everybody. Labour might have costed it out in theory, but had they observed it in practice?

Labour was a risk that was likely going to continue Brexit for years. At least now, good or bad, things can move on.

I get that people want Brexit but that does not excuse voting Tory. Plenty of leavers refused to do so.

There was a lot of really good stuff in the Labour manifesto so why can't you bring yourself to admit it. Stuff you preached about for years and now you are back to playing pretend in order to keep to your weird new ideology. I bet you never even read it. Not a word and relied on second hand interpretations.

Just saying things like

"Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered" is sick mate. It is the worse form of gutter journalism. To think that i thought you were better than someone who would repeat tabloid shclok like that. The manifesto promised to decriminalize abortion not make it a free for all. What are you a Catholic now? Do you want to control women so much you want to tell them what to do with their bodies?

It is the same as being so mean that even though you live in SK you want to stop people at the bottom of the rung being paid enough to live on. Forgive me but you sound like a right Victorian Scrooge like bastard of a man

Labour wanted to go far beyond most countries in terms of when abortion could be carried and that to me is murder. Abortion in the very early stages as the result of irresponsibility I can understand, but after a certain period, that is then a baby with arms, legs, and common human features. I am not evil and would prefer people to act responsibly and consider their actions before resorting to murder. I am in favor of abortion, but only in the early stages.

Again there you are saying people had 'no excuse to vote Tory'. You are dealing with a 2 party tyranny in a FPTP system, so people could see that they had a chance for Brexit or a chance to continue the same old uncertainty. They seem to want it done. It does not even mean they are Tories.

I agree with you that there was good stuff in the manifesto, but ultimately when push comes to shove the priority here was independence and Corbyn, though I am sure got it privately, was tied to his Party. Or maybe I am wrong and he had his own flip and really wanted the EU having claimed to have voted for it. I don't know. Either way it was a miscalculation that became pronounced as soon as it was obvious his party was pro EU and that he would renege on a promise to respect the results of the referendum. It was an extraordinary miscalculation. It cost Labour the North ot England. That is something that DOES NOT HAPPEN. It did.

I do not want people unable to afford to live. That is untrue. To put it into context here. If you have even a full time supermarket job you can earn about 1.7 million a month. You can rent a 3 bedroom middle class family home for 600,000 or a poorer studio for yourself, furnished, bills included for half that. That leaves you with about 70 plus percent of your income to do what you want with. It isn't the workhouse. Even the lowest level jobs can provide a relatively decent standard of living. It is kind of similar in the UK in that with a little modesty you can do okay. I always had money in the UK, but the truth was I was young and spent it and I spent madly in my early years here too. Not smart.

All I argue is that by not being a consumer maniac, you can actually do okay in life. I am no scrooge as I spend money freely, but within reason. Instead of spending my money on say watches like Walrus, I put it into health or a nice meal or a nice jacket or what have you. It is all part of growing up. Not sure how any of that makes me a bastard of a man, but hey, whatever.

[Fatboxingfan]

I voted Labour

[walrus]

Yes, but you are basically saying that you know better and that they are basically all duped. It couldn't be that actually they want Brexit and that is a priority? The same Brexit that has been delayed by not only May, but the complete resistance of Labour. You don't see how that looked to people?

All Labour had to do was listen. But they didn't and you are displaying the same mentality here with the 'People may have had good intentions, but they were duped and will be shat on'. Well, if so there will be another election in about 5 years.

There is choice but Labour put itself in a terrible position and not only that but had scandalous things in its manifesto. Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered? Why would you give the vote to kids? Why would you not listen to the 70% that want significantly reduced migration. It is because they thought they knew better and did not need to listen.

I can tell you right now what happens when you increase the minimum wage 20%. Unemployment and economic stagnation and you have open borders too. That is mental. I don't know better but have witnessed what happened when a similar experiment was tried here. Big mistake and it hurts everybody. Labour might have costed it out in theory, but had they observed it in practice?

Labour was a risk that was likely going to continue Brexit for years. At least now, good or bad, things can move on.

I get that people want Brexit but that does not excuse voting Tory. Plenty of leavers refused to do so.

There was a lot of really good stuff in the Labour manifesto so why can't you bring yourself to admit it. Stuff you preached about for years and now you are back to playing pretend in order to keep to your weird new ideology. I bet you never even read it. Not a word and relied on second hand interpretations.

Just saying things like

"Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered" is sick mate. It is the worse form of gutter journalism. To think that i thought you were better than someone who would repeat tabloid shclok like that. The manifesto promised to decriminalize abortion not make it a free for all. What are you a Catholic now? Do you want to control women so much you want to tell them what to do with their bodies?

It is the same as being so mean that even though you live in SK you want to stop people at the bottom of the rung being paid enough to live on. Forgive me but you sound like a right Victorian Scrooge like bastard of a man

Labour wanted to go far beyond most countries in terms of when abortion could be carried and that to me is murder. Abortion in the very early stages as the result of irresponsibility I can understand, but after a certain period, that is then a baby with arms, legs, and common human features. I am not evil and would prefer people to act responsibly and consider their actions before resorting to murder. I am in favor of abortion, but only in the early stages.

Again there you are saying people had 'no excuse to vote Tory'. You are dealing with a 2 party tyranny in a FPTP system, so people could see that they had a chance for Brexit or a chance to continue the same old uncertainty. They seem to want it done. It does not even mean they are Tories.

I agree with you that there was good stuff in the manifesto, but ultimately when push comes to shove the priority here was independence and Corbyn, though I am sure got it privately, was tied to his Party. Or maybe I am wrong and he had his own flip and really wanted the EU having claimed to have voted for it. I don't know. Either way it was a miscalculation that became pronounced as soon as it was obvious his party was pro EU and that he would renege on a promise to respect the results of the referendum. It was an extraordinary miscalculation. It cost Labour the North ot England. That is something that DOES NOT HAPPEN. It did.

I do not want people unable to afford to live. That is untrue. To put it into context here. If you have even a full time supermarket job you can earn about 1.7 million a month. You can rent a 3 bedroom middle class family home for 600,000 or a poorer studio for yourself, furnished, bills included for half that. That leaves you with about 70 plus percent of your income to do what you want with. It isn't the workhouse. Even the lowest level jobs can provide a relatively decent standard of living. It is kind of similar in the UK in that with a little modesty you can do okay. I always had money in the UK, but the truth was I was young and spent it and I spent madly in my early years here too. Not smart.

All I argue is that by not being a consumer maniac, you can actually do okay in life. I am no scrooge as I spend money freely, but within reason. Instead of spending my money on say watches like Walrus, I put it into health or a nice meal or a nice jacket or what have you. It is all part of growing up. Not sure how any of that makes me a bastard of a man, but hey, whatever.

Ya I don’t really go out to eat much. All this talk of Scotland my wife and I are going to visit it in a year or so. I did read omega increased prices on watches in the UK due to Brexit fears. You guys pay much more for vintage and modern than we do so it’s not that big of concern. This whole Brexit thing is interesting, the first vote and some mentions after sent our market into a bit of a drop but it has probably factored it in already. It’s funny how each side demonizes the other these days. Something tells me everything is going to work out over here and your way. After watching the crown on Netflix I am now an expert on British history and you guys have been through much worse. You may not have known but at one time you guys were not even part of the EU and you did pretty good. Neither Boris or Trump are Hitler and neither will be in office that long and then some other moaps will take over and we will rinse and repeat.

[Gandalf]

Yes, but you are basically saying that you know better and that they are basically all duped. It couldn't be that actually they want Brexit and that is a priority? The same Brexit that has been delayed by not only May, but the complete resistance of Labour. You don't see how that looked to people?

All Labour had to do was listen. But they didn't and you are displaying the same mentality here with the 'People may have had good intentions, but they were duped and will be shat on'. Well, if so there will be another election in about 5 years.

There is choice but Labour put itself in a terrible position and not only that but had scandalous things in its manifesto. Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered? Why would you give the vote to kids? Why would you not listen to the 70% that want significantly reduced migration. It is because they thought they knew better and did not need to listen.

I can tell you right now what happens when you increase the minimum wage 20%. Unemployment and economic stagnation and you have open borders too. That is mental. I don't know better but have witnessed what happened when a similar experiment was tried here. Big mistake and it hurts everybody. Labour might have costed it out in theory, but had they observed it in practice?

Labour was a risk that was likely going to continue Brexit for years. At least now, good or bad, things can move on.

I get that people want Brexit but that does not excuse voting Tory. Plenty of leavers refused to do so.

There was a lot of really good stuff in the Labour manifesto so why can't you bring yourself to admit it. Stuff you preached about for years and now you are back to playing pretend in order to keep to your weird new ideology. I bet you never even read it. Not a word and relied on second hand interpretations.

Just saying things like

"Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered" is sick mate. It is the worse form of gutter journalism. To think that i thought you were better than someone who would repeat tabloid shclok like that. The manifesto promised to decriminalize abortion not make it a free for all. What are you a Catholic now? Do you want to control women so much you want to tell them what to do with their bodies?

It is the same as being so mean that even though you live in SK you want to stop people at the bottom of the rung being paid enough to live on. Forgive me but you sound like a right Victorian Scrooge like bastard of a man

Labour wanted to go far beyond most countries in terms of when abortion could be carried and that to me is murder. Abortion in the very early stages as the result of irresponsibility I can understand, but after a certain period, that is then a baby with arms, legs, and common human features. I am not evil and would prefer people to act responsibly and consider their actions before resorting to murder. I am in favor of abortion, but only in the early stages.

Again there you are saying people had 'no excuse to vote Tory'. You are dealing with a 2 party tyranny in a FPTP system, so people could see that they had a chance for Brexit or a chance to continue the same old uncertainty. They seem to want it done. It does not even mean they are Tories.

I agree with you that there was good stuff in the manifesto, but ultimately when push comes to shove the priority here was independence and Corbyn, though I am sure got it privately, was tied to his Party. Or maybe I am wrong and he had his own flip and really wanted the EU having claimed to have voted for it. I don't know. Either way it was a miscalculation that became pronounced as soon as it was obvious his party was pro EU and that he would renege on a promise to respect the results of the referendum. It was an extraordinary miscalculation. It cost Labour the North ot England. That is something that DOES NOT HAPPEN. It did.

I do not want people unable to afford to live. That is untrue. To put it into context here. If you have even a full time supermarket job you can earn about 1.7 million a month. You can rent a 3 bedroom middle class family home for 600,000 or a poorer studio for yourself, furnished, bills included for half that. That leaves you with about 70 plus percent of your income to do what you want with. It isn't the workhouse. Even the lowest level jobs can provide a relatively decent standard of living. It is kind of similar in the UK in that with a little modesty you can do okay. I always had money in the UK, but the truth was I was young and spent it and I spent madly in my early years here too. Not smart.

All I argue is that by not being a consumer maniac, you can actually do okay in life. I am no scrooge as I spend money freely, but within reason. Instead of spending my money on say watches like Walrus, I put it into health or a nice meal or a nice jacket or what have you. It is all part of growing up. Not sure how any of that makes me a bastard of a man, but hey, whatever.

Ya I don’t really go out to eat much. All this talk of Scotland my wife and I are going to visit it in a year or so. I did read omega increased prices on watches in the UK due to Brexit fears. You guys pay much more for vintage and modern than we do so it’s not that big of concern. This whole Brexit thing is interesting, the first vote and some mentions after sent our market into a bit of a drop but it has probably factored it in already. It’s funny how each side demonizes the other these days. Something tells me everything is going to work out over here and your way. After watching the crown on Netflix I am now an expert on British history and you guys have been through much worse. You may not have known but at one time you guys were not even part of the EU and you did pretty good. Neither Boris or Trump are Hitler and neither will be in office that long and then some other moaps will take over and we will rinse and repeat.

I have reversed my divorce decision. Keep your TV dramas and we will find a way forwards.

[Beanz]

Yes, but you are basically saying that you know better and that they are basically all duped. It couldn't be that actually they want Brexit and that is a priority? The same Brexit that has been delayed by not only May, but the complete resistance of Labour. You don't see how that looked to people?

All Labour had to do was listen. But they didn't and you are displaying the same mentality here with the 'People may have had good intentions, but they were duped and will be shat on'. Well, if so there will be another election in about 5 years.

There is choice but Labour put itself in a terrible position and not only that but had scandalous things in its manifesto. Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered? Why would you give the vote to kids? Why would you not listen to the 70% that want significantly reduced migration. It is because they thought they knew better and did not need to listen.

I can tell you right now what happens when you increase the minimum wage 20%. Unemployment and economic stagnation and you have open borders too. That is mental. I don't know better but have witnessed what happened when a similar experiment was tried here. Big mistake and it hurts everybody. Labour might have costed it out in theory, but had they observed it in practice?

Labour was a risk that was likely going to continue Brexit for years. At least now, good or bad, things can move on.

I get that people want Brexit but that does not excuse voting Tory. Plenty of leavers refused to do so.

There was a lot of really good stuff in the Labour manifesto so why can't you bring yourself to admit it. Stuff you preached about for years and now you are back to playing pretend in order to keep to your weird new ideology. I bet you never even read it. Not a word and relied on second hand interpretations.

Just saying things like

"Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered" is sick mate. It is the worse form of gutter journalism. To think that i thought you were better than someone who would repeat tabloid shclok like that. The manifesto promised to decriminalize abortion not make it a free for all. What are you a Catholic now? Do you want to control women so much you want to tell them what to do with their bodies?

It is the same as being so mean that even though you live in SK you want to stop people at the bottom of the rung being paid enough to live on. Forgive me but you sound like a right Victorian Scrooge like bastard of a man

Labour wanted to go far beyond most countries in terms of when abortion could be carried and that to me is murder. Abortion in the very early stages as the result of irresponsibility I can understand, but after a certain period, that is then a baby with arms, legs, and common human features. I am not evil and would prefer people to act responsibly and consider their actions before resorting to murder. I am in favor of abortion, but only in the early stages.

Again there you are saying people had 'no excuse to vote Tory'. You are dealing with a 2 party tyranny in a FPTP system, so people could see that they had a chance for Brexit or a chance to continue the same old uncertainty. They seem to want it done. It does not even mean they are Tories.

I agree with you that there was good stuff in the manifesto, but ultimately when push comes to shove the priority here was independence and Corbyn, though I am sure got it privately, was tied to his Party. Or maybe I am wrong and he had his own flip and really wanted the EU having claimed to have voted for it. I don't know. Either way it was a miscalculation that became pronounced as soon as it was obvious his party was pro EU and that he would renege on a promise to respect the results of the referendum. It was an extraordinary miscalculation. It cost Labour the North ot England. That is something that DOES NOT HAPPEN. It did.

I do not want people unable to afford to live. That is untrue. To put it into context here. If you have even a full time supermarket job you can earn about 1.7 million a month. You can rent a 3 bedroom middle class family home for 600,000 or a poorer studio for yourself, furnished, bills included for half that. That leaves you with about 70 plus percent of your income to do what you want with. It isn't the workhouse. Even the lowest level jobs can provide a relatively decent standard of living. It is kind of similar in the UK in that with a little modesty you can do okay. I always had money in the UK, but the truth was I was young and spent it and I spent madly in my early years here too. Not smart.

All I argue is that by not being a consumer maniac, you can actually do okay in life. I am no scrooge as I spend money freely, but within reason. Instead of spending my money on say watches like Walrus, I put it into health or a nice meal or a nice jacket or what have you. It is all part of growing up. Not sure how any of that makes me a bastard of a man, but hey, whatever.

Actually you are evil. In many demonstrable ways.

[Dia bando]

Can I just say benefits are there for people that need them but some took advantage of the system I have heard some great stories off people in the pub why they can't work.
Some were genuine others were just lay sbouts some had 6 or 7 kids bad back mate could not work but plenty of energy to fuck.!
Couples claiming for all there kids working on the side the woman claiming single parent benefit but dad of the house living there. l drive home from work past the Railway pub there they are life of fucking Riley drinking about 5 o'clock.
It makes my blood boil I am working to pay for there beer shit I am nearly sixty some are older and younger than me never worked a day in their life.
Really it's a fucking disgrace the genuine are suffering because of theses lay abouts.
Breeding a house full of kid I was counting how many people in a family I no 34 of them only 3 have ever worked in their lives.

[Gandalf]

Yes, but you are basically saying that you know better and that they are basically all duped. It couldn't be that actually they want Brexit and that is a priority? The same Brexit that has been delayed by not only May, but the complete resistance of Labour. You don't see how that looked to people?

All Labour had to do was listen. But they didn't and you are displaying the same mentality here with the 'People may have had good intentions, but they were duped and will be shat on'. Well, if so there will be another election in about 5 years.

There is choice but Labour put itself in a terrible position and not only that but had scandalous things in its manifesto. Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered? Why would you give the vote to kids? Why would you not listen to the 70% that want significantly reduced migration. It is because they thought they knew better and did not need to listen.

I can tell you right now what happens when you increase the minimum wage 20%. Unemployment and economic stagnation and you have open borders too. That is mental. I don't know better but have witnessed what happened when a similar experiment was tried here. Big mistake and it hurts everybody. Labour might have costed it out in theory, but had they observed it in practice?

Labour was a risk that was likely going to continue Brexit for years. At least now, good or bad, things can move on.

I get that people want Brexit but that does not excuse voting Tory. Plenty of leavers refused to do so.

There was a lot of really good stuff in the Labour manifesto so why can't you bring yourself to admit it. Stuff you preached about for years and now you are back to playing pretend in order to keep to your weird new ideology. I bet you never even read it. Not a word and relied on second hand interpretations.

Just saying things like

"Why would Corbyn want almost fully formed babies murdered" is sick mate. It is the worse form of gutter journalism. To think that i thought you were better than someone who would repeat tabloid shclok like that. The manifesto promised to decriminalize abortion not make it a free for all. What are you a Catholic now? Do you want to control women so much you want to tell them what to do with their bodies?

It is the same as being so mean that even though you live in SK you want to stop people at the bottom of the rung being paid enough to live on. Forgive me but you sound like a right Victorian Scrooge like bastard of a man

Labour wanted to go far beyond most countries in terms of when abortion could be carried and that to me is murder. Abortion in the very early stages as the result of irresponsibility I can understand, but after a certain period, that is then a baby with arms, legs, and common human features. I am not evil and would prefer people to act responsibly and consider their actions before resorting to murder. I am in favor of abortion, but only in the early stages.

Again there you are saying people had 'no excuse to vote Tory'. You are dealing with a 2 party tyranny in a FPTP system, so people could see that they had a chance for Brexit or a chance to continue the same old uncertainty. They seem to want it done. It does not even mean they are Tories.

I agree with you that there was good stuff in the manifesto, but ultimately when push comes to shove the priority here was independence and Corbyn, though I am sure got it privately, was tied to his Party. Or maybe I am wrong and he had his own flip and really wanted the EU having claimed to have voted for it. I don't know. Either way it was a miscalculation that became pronounced as soon as it was obvious his party was pro EU and that he would renege on a promise to respect the results of the referendum. It was an extraordinary miscalculation. It cost Labour the North ot England. That is something that DOES NOT HAPPEN. It did.

I do not want people unable to afford to live. That is untrue. To put it into context here. If you have even a full time supermarket job you can earn about 1.7 million a month. You can rent a 3 bedroom middle class family home for 600,000 or a poorer studio for yourself, furnished, bills included for half that. That leaves you with about 70 plus percent of your income to do what you want with. It isn't the workhouse. Even the lowest level jobs can provide a relatively decent standard of living. It is kind of similar in the UK in that with a little modesty you can do okay. I always had money in the UK, but the truth was I was young and spent it and I spent madly in my early years here too. Not smart.

All I argue is that by not being a consumer maniac, you can actually do okay in life. I am no scrooge as I spend money freely, but within reason. Instead of spending my money on say watches like Walrus, I put it into health or a nice meal or a nice jacket or what have you. It is all part of growing up. Not sure how any of that makes me a bastard of a man, but hey, whatever.

Actually you are evil. In many demonstrable ways.

That is not an argument.