Canelo’s short list

[Spicoli]

Stay at 175 and fight Beterbiev or Bivol. It's a real shame what The Ring has become. I remember the height when it was the only belt and rankings that HBO and ESPN would speak and announce on air. Good times.

[powerpuncher]

I completely understand that p4p is subjective. The problem is that there is obviously a point to where you would find someone who doesn’t have knowledge of the sport. For example, if I said that Andy Ruiz was #1 p4p and his whole team said the same thing, you would just assume it was all biased and wouldn’t take it seriously.

That was my point. Certain lists you can’t take seriously for one reason or another. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

[TIC]

I completely understand that p4p is subjective. The problem is that there is obviously a point to where you would find someone who doesn’t have knowledge of the sport. For example, if I said that Andy Ruiz was #1 p4p and his whole team said the same thing, you would just assume it was all biased and wouldn’t take it seriously.

That was my point. Certain lists you can’t take seriously for one reason or another. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

i fully understand that some lists can't be taken seriously. the point i was making is there are knowledgable people around boxing that consider canelo number one p4p. having andy ruiz at number one, i think we both would agree would be ridiculous, but a case can be made for canelo. from the second ggg fight he has been nothing but marvelous

[powerpuncher]

I completely understand that p4p is subjective. The problem is that there is obviously a point to where you would find someone who doesn’t have knowledge of the sport. For example, if I said that Andy Ruiz was #1 p4p and his whole team said the same thing, you would just assume it was all biased and wouldn’t take it seriously.

That was my point. Certain lists you can’t take seriously for one reason or another. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

i fully understand that some lists can't be taken seriously. the point i was making is there are knowledgable people around boxing that consider canelo number one p4p. having andy ruiz at number one, i think we both would agree would be ridiculous, but a case can be made for canelo. from the second ggg fight he has been nothing but marvelous

I’ve already made my point multiple times and you still aren’t getting it so I won’t state it again.

My biggest argument against Canelo though is that if GGG would have gotten both decisions (which majority of people had him winning both fights) would any list have him at #1? The answer is no. People can only put him at #1 because he got gifted a draw in the first fight and was fortunate to get the win in the second one. Weight rankings and mandatories are one thing since they are more official rankings. Since p4p is just opinion on who is the best, then I think we should throw out official scoring and base it off of what actually happens in the ring.

[TIC]

I completely understand that p4p is subjective. The problem is that there is obviously a point to where you would find someone who doesn’t have knowledge of the sport. For example, if I said that Andy Ruiz was #1 p4p and his whole team said the same thing, you would just assume it was all biased and wouldn’t take it seriously.

That was my point. Certain lists you can’t take seriously for one reason or another. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

i fully understand that some lists can't be taken seriously. the point i was making is there are knowledgable people around boxing that consider canelo number one p4p. having andy ruiz at number one, i think we both would agree would be ridiculous, but a case can be made for canelo. from the second ggg fight he has been nothing but marvelous

I’ve already made my point multiple times and you still aren’t getting it so I won’t state it again.

My biggest argument against Canelo though is that if GGG would have gotten both decisions (which majority of people had him winning both fights) would any list have him at #1? The answer is no. People can only put him at #1 because he got gifted a draw in the first fight and was fortunate to get the win in the second one. Weight rankings and mandatories are one thing since they are more official rankings. Since p4p is just opinion on who is the best, then I think we should throw out official scoring and base it off of what actually happens in the ring.

you are not getting my point, i answered your question with examples, just because you don't like the examples doesn't mean they don't exist or are less relevant than your opinion. i thought canelo won the second fight. i put him at number one because i had him beating ggg at his own game in the second fight, destroyed fielding who holds a win over ryder, clearly beat jacobs, and jumped two weight divisions to knockout a titleholder at lightheavyweight

[Master]

I completely understand that p4p is subjective. The problem is that there is obviously a point to where you would find someone who doesn’t have knowledge of the sport. For example, if I said that Andy Ruiz was #1 p4p and his whole team said the same thing, you would just assume it was all biased and wouldn’t take it seriously.

That was my point. Certain lists you can’t take seriously for one reason or another. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

i fully understand that some lists can't be taken seriously. the point i was making is there are knowledgable people around boxing that consider canelo number one p4p. having andy ruiz at number one, i think we both would agree would be ridiculous, but a case can be made for canelo. from the second ggg fight he has been nothing but marvelous

I’ve already made my point multiple times and you still aren’t getting it so I won’t state it again.

My biggest argument against Canelo though is that if GGG would have gotten both decisions (which majority of people had him winning both fights) would any list have him at #1? The answer is no. People can only put him at #1 because he got gifted a draw in the first fight and was fortunate to get the win in the second one. Weight rankings and mandatories are one thing since they are more official rankings. Since p4p is just opinion on who is the best, then I think we should throw out official scoring and base it off of what actually happens in the ring.

you are not getting my point, i answered your question with examples, just because you don't like the examples doesn't mean they don't exist or are less relevant than your opinion. i thought canelo won the second fight. i put him at number one because i had him beating ggg at his own game in the second fight, destroyed fielding who holds a win over ryder, clearly beat jacobs, and jumped two weight divisions to knockout a titleholder at lightheavyweight

That all looks good on paper 100 years from now they may consider Canelo a ATG who was misunderstood but we all know truth. Notice you did not mention the first triple G fight with Canelo so I take that you accept he lost that but got a draw?

A closer 2nd fight true but still lost in my eyes, You know the hand picked "destroying" of Rocky Fielding (who Callum Smith truly destroyed in 1 round) was very opportunistic and whilst stopping Kov was impressive that was another champion that was carefully selected too.

Normally jumping around weight's and beating champions is a mark of a pound for pound champion. It should be applauded but when you can clearly see that it is avoiding even better fights then you need to question Canelo's motives.

[Alpha]

Canelo's record has many elite opponents but he has received favorably judging at times, has the failed PED tests, 155 catchweights and rehydration clauses, waiting for fighters to slide, in my opinion much of his success has been manufactured. I think he is a very good fighter and seems to look better and better each outing but I wouldn't have him as my current P4P #1.

[TitoFan]

Yeah... I'm with Alpha there. I know I'm the least objective of the bunch in the discussion but facts are facts. Blatantly favorable judging, PED cheating, weight "games", cherry picking..... it's all too much to ignore. Sure, the effort he puts into his fights is there for all to see. He's the one in the ring with the opponent. But chasing trinkets against the Rocky Fieldings of the world is something I cannot respect. Having major boxing orgs manufacture phony belts just for him... is something I cannot respect. There's a clear Hollywood script feeling to all of this, to the point where it has always felt like a machinery in motion with the sole purpose of creating a matinee idol champion from the very beginning. Too bad my lack of bias keeps me from being taken seriously with regards to him..... but again facts are facts. Some things just stare at you in the face and it's hard to ignore them. To my credit (excuse the chest thumping), I saw this from very early on. VERY early. I saw this coming as the inexorable march it's been.

If he ducks back out of light heavy and refuses to fight the Bivols and Betervievs of the world..... he's still playing his chickenshit games.

[powerpuncher]

And I still have a weird feeling about the whole Kovalev fight honestly. I’ve seen low card up and comers fight people who obviously threw fights, but the Canelo Kovalev fight is the only one in my life that I’ve ever been this suspicious of. The whole thing including the fight itself just has a weird thing to it.

But as I’ve mentioned before, there are at very least 7-8 fighters now who could do just as well as Canelo if they got all of the same backing, marketing, judging, weight advantage, PED use, cherry picking, etc. I’ve always said that Canelo is a good fighter. He is just manufactured. I still think that Crawford, Loma, Inoue, and Usyk are all ahead of him.

[Spicoli]

And I still have a weird feeling about the whole Kovalev fight honestly. I’ve seen low card up and comers fight people who obviously threw fights, but the Canelo Kovalev fight is the only one in my life that I’ve ever been this suspicious of. The whole thing including the fight itself just has a weird thing to it.

But as I’ve mentioned before, there are at very least 7-8 fighters now who could do just as well as Canelo if they got all of the same backing, marketing, judging, weight advantage, PED use, cherry picking, etc. I’ve always said that Canelo is a good fighter. He is just manufactured. I still think that Crawford, Loma, Inoue, and Usyk are all ahead of him.

In the whole best of best p4p cluster thing I'd agree with Crawford, Loma and Usyk very much being much more well rounded and versatile fighters. Belts and divisions can all be steered and geared for a guy with massive push. But you can just watch others and see that they have a deeper tool chest to work with, at least for me. A certain type of natural fluidity Canelo lacks.

[TitoFan]

And I still have a weird feeling about the whole Kovalev fight honestly. I’ve seen low card up and comers fight people who obviously threw fights, but the Canelo Kovalev fight is the only one in my life that I’ve ever been this suspicious of. The whole thing including the fight itself just has a weird thing to it.

But as I’ve mentioned before, there are at very least 7-8 fighters now who could do just as well as Canelo if they got all of the same backing, marketing, judging, weight advantage, PED use, cherry picking, etc. I’ve always said that Canelo is a good fighter. He is just manufactured. I still think that Crawford, Loma, Inoue, and Usyk are all ahead of him.

In the whole best of best p4p cluster thing I'd agree with Crawford, Loma and Usyk very much being much more well rounded and versatile fighters. Belts and divisions can all be steered and geared for a guy with massive push. But you can just watch others and see that they have a deeper tool chest to work with, at least for me. A certain type of natural fluidity Canelo lacks.

Let's not just talk about tool chests, an argument I certainly agree with. Let's bring up someone like Mikey Garcia. With the Spence fight alone, Mikey proves himself to be the complete polar opposite to someone like Canelo.

F*ck calculated moves... f*ck picking off the weak zebra in the herd.... f*ck protecting that "0" like a girl protecting her virginity... f*ck seeking weight advantages and every other advantage known to man before getting in the ring.

Just plain ol' "Bring It!" attitude and let the chips fall where they may.

A bit different from Khan and Brook, who threw themselves in front of semis in foolhardy attempts to jump divisions Evel Knievel style.

But a fighter..... not a poser.

[TIC]

I completely understand that p4p is subjective. The problem is that there is obviously a point to where you would find someone who doesn’t have knowledge of the sport. For example, if I said that Andy Ruiz was #1 p4p and his whole team said the same thing, you would just assume it was all biased and wouldn’t take it seriously.

That was my point. Certain lists you can’t take seriously for one reason or another. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

i fully understand that some lists can't be taken seriously. the point i was making is there are knowledgable people around boxing that consider canelo number one p4p. having andy ruiz at number one, i think we both would agree would be ridiculous, but a case can be made for canelo. from the second ggg fight he has been nothing but marvelous

I’ve already made my point multiple times and you still aren’t getting it so I won’t state it again.

My biggest argument against Canelo though is that if GGG would have gotten both decisions (which majority of people had him winning both fights) would any list have him at #1? The answer is no. People can only put him at #1 because he got gifted a draw in the first fight and was fortunate to get the win in the second one. Weight rankings and mandatories are one thing since they are more official rankings. Since p4p is just opinion on who is the best, then I think we should throw out official scoring and base it off of what actually happens in the ring.

you are not getting my point, i answered your question with examples, just because you don't like the examples doesn't mean they don't exist or are less relevant than your opinion. i thought canelo won the second fight. i put him at number one because i had him beating ggg at his own game in the second fight, destroyed fielding who holds a win over ryder, clearly beat jacobs, and jumped two weight divisions to knockout a titleholder at lightheavyweight

That all looks good on paper 100 years from now they may consider Canelo a ATG who was misunderstood but we all know truth. Notice you did not mention the first triple G fight with Canelo so I take that you accept he lost that but got a draw?

A closer 2nd fight true but still lost in my eyes, You know the hand picked "destroying" of Rocky Fielding (who Callum Smith truly destroyed in 1 round) was very opportunistic and whilst stopping Kov was impressive that was another champion that was carefully selected too.

Normally jumping around weight's and beating champions is a mark of a pound for pound champion. It should be applauded but when you can clearly see that it is avoiding even better fights then you need to question Canelo's motives.

I thought canelo lost the first ggg fight. i had ggg rated very high after that fight. i said from the second ggg canelo he has been nothing but marvelous. i don't think a fighter needs to be undefeated to be top of the list. i thought he beat ggg in the second go round. he also defeated jacobs much clearer than both ggg and sergei d did. say whay you want about kovalev but i don't see any other middleweights eager to jump two divisions to face him even now. canelo is not a lightheavyweight, if you are going to criticize him for not facing the best lightheavyweights, then all the other supermiddleweights and middleweights should be held to the same standard. a case could be made for any of the top five guys to be number one and a few of them have struggled recently. p4p is only for fun

[Master]

Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez open to crossover bout vs. Jorge Masvidal

Saul "Canelo" Alvarez would be open to the possibility of boxing against UFC star Jorge Masvidal in a blockbuster crossover bout.

Four-weight world champion Canelo was called out by Masvidal after "Gamebred" defeated Nate Diaz at UFC 244 early in November.

After initially rebuffing the call-out, Canelo was more open to the suggestion when presented the idea by TMZ.



"For business? Why not," he replied when asked about fighting Masvidal, who has seen his stock rise in MMA circles after notable wins over Darren Till, Ben Askren and Diaz in 2019.

Pressed if it could be his next fight, Canelo replied simply: "We'll see, we'll see."

Alvarez, who defeated Sergey Kovalev on the same night as Masvidal beat Diaz, also reiterated his desire for a rematch with Floyd Mayweather Jr. The Mexican was comfortably defeated via majority decision — with one judge controversially scoring the fight a draw — in September 2013.

Canelo is sure of a different outcome should the two mix it up again, though the 29-year-old doubts the fight will be made.

"It's a fight I'd definitely like. It's a different time now, I was very young and inexperienced at the time," Alvarez added. "I'm a different fighter. It'd be a totally different result. But I don't think it will happen."

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/sau...002441692.html

[palmerq]

Bloody ell, a fight v masvidal would be rubbish, it'd be far more interesting if he fought logan and Jake paul....

[powerpuncher]

Mayweather at least made sense to fight Mcgregor. His career was already over and it was more of a spectacle. So now that we have seen the boxing vs mma in a boxing match, we don’t need to see it again. Especially against a prime fighter like Canelo. He already signed a huge contract with DAZN so I don’t get what this fight would do for him.

Unless somehow he can make the fight outside of his DAZN contract and it’s just extra money in his pocket.