Today In Biden Land

[El Kabong]

El Kabong's long standing lie" There is no such thing as Hate Speech "

Not really what I said, but close enough. I don't believe in it, and I don't think speech should be legislated at all. People should speak freely, all people.

I don't believe in hate crimes either.

[Beanz]

El Kabong's long standing lie" There is no such thing as Hate Speech "

Not really what I said, but close enough. I don't believe in it, and I don't think speech should be legislated at all. People should speak freely, all people.

I don't believe in hate crimes either.

Thanks for confirming what an entitled privileged arsehole you are.

You will likely never have to deal with being at the sharp end of it (hate speech) or being a victim of it (hate crime), but for most decent people that is still no reason to deny its existence or impact upon millions.

[El Kabong]

Thanks for confirming what an entitled privileged arsehole you are.

You will likely never have to deal with being at the sharp end of it (hate speech) or being a victim of it (hate crime), but for most decent people that is still no reason to deny its existence or impact upon millions.

I didn't know believing in literal EQUALITY made me entitled and privileged? That's super impressive.

No, I know I won't, because I don't believe in it.



Who do 'hate speech' and 'hate crime' laws protect? Why do we have them? I'll be impressed if you answer at all, but if you're bright then you should already know where this is going and if you do I don't reckon you will respond.


There should be 1 set of laws for ALL people because we are ALL equal as humans.

[Beanz]

Thanks for confirming what an entitled privileged arsehole you are.

You will likely never have to deal with being at the sharp end of it (hate speech) or being a victim of it (hate crime), but for most decent people that is still no reason to deny its existence or impact upon millions.

I didn't know believing in literal EQUALITY made me entitled and privileged? That's super impressive.

No, I know I won't, because I don't believe in it.



Who do 'hate speech' and 'hate crime' laws protect? Why do we have them? I'll be impressed if you answer at all, but if you're bright then you should already know where this is going and if you do I don't reckon you will respond.


There should be 1 set of laws for ALL people because we are ALL equal as humans.

Don't be so naive and stupid of course we are not all equal.

This is what i mean about the idealogical nonsense you have been shoving down everyones throats here for years. You try and bend the world around your own stupidity rather than make the effort to educate yourself.

Being deserving of equal respect is not the same thing as being equal. Just more of your simplistic PC nonsense. Men and Women are not equal. Adults and Children are not equal. An Employer and an Employee are not equal. A disabled person and an able bodied person are not equal.

You try telling somebody in a wheelchair, don't worry about the 40 steps up to the entrance to the building, because we are all equal. We are not equal and people have for years made any excuse to avoid facing that. It matters not that Universal access benefits able bodied people too. Parents with puchchairs, delivery personnel with trolleys, elderly people with mobility issues, all end up with one less barrier when ramps and alternative to steps are included but all over the world buildings are still going up under the premise that it is not something that needs to be considered. That is what your kind of reductive reasoning is responsible for.

You are pretending that crimes carried out against people for things they have no control over should not be evaluated at all, and that the kind of hate speech that normalised those kind of crimes be ignored too.

So no queer or Paki bashing, No such thing as racist stereotyping as far as you are concerned? No wonder you think nothing of saying thing like Spergy bastard yourself . No wonder that TIC feels emboldened by you giving him the green light to adopt it and Freedoms constant sick antisemitism did not even raise an eyebrow from you.

I know it exists because i spent over ten years involved in legal cases prosecuting it. I know like many what it is like to deal with people staring at those i love every day as though they were freaks, that is an uncomfortable fact you seem unwilling to process, but it is a fact just the same.

What you believe seems to have very little in common with the real world or reality at all.

[NoSavingByTheBell]

Beanz, seriously, which item in your household is more dear to you: your clutching pearls or your fainting couch?

[Beanz]

Beanz, seriously, which item in your household is more dear to you: your clutching pearls or your fainting couch?

My word and my principles are far more dear to me than any possessions.

Why are you so afraid of dealing with the content of a post and answering questions?

It is almost like once again you are avoiding responsibility for anything.

[NoSavingByTheBell]

[El Kabong]

Don't be so naive and stupid of course we are not all equal.

This is what i mean about the idealogical nonsense you have been shoving down everyones throats here for years. You try and bend the world around your own stupidity rather than make the effort to educate yourself.

Being deserving of equal respect is not the same thing as being equal. Just more of your simplistic PC nonsense. Men and Women are not equal. Adults and Children are not equal. An Employer and an Employee are not equal. A disabled person and an able bodied person are not equal.

You try telling somebody in a wheelchair, don't worry about the 40 steps up to the entrance to the building, because we are all equal. We are not equal and people have for years made any excuse to avoid facing that. It matters not that Universal access benefits able bodied people too. Parents with puchchairs, delivery personnel with trolleys, elderly people with mobility issues, all end up with one less barrier when ramps and alternative to steps are included but all over the world buildings are still going up under the premise that it is not something that needs to be considered. That is what your kind of reductive reasoning is responsible for.

You are pretending that crimes carried out against people for things they have no control over should not be evaluated at all, and that the kind of hate speech that normalised those kind of crimes be ignored too.

So no queer or Paki bashing, No such thing as racist stereotyping as far as you are concerned? No wonder you think nothing of saying thing like Spergy bastard yourself . No wonder that TIC feels emboldened by you giving him the green light to adopt it and Freedoms constant sick antisemitism did not even raise an eyebrow from you.

I know it exists because i spent over ten years involved in legal cases prosecuting it. I know like many what it is like to deal with people staring at those i love every day as though they were freaks, that is an uncomfortable fact you seem unwilling to process, but it is a fact just the same.

What you believe seems to have very little in common with the real world or reality at all.

We're not all equal? How?

So it's "stupid" to treat everyone as my equal?

How are those folks not equal?

I'd probably tell that person in the wheelchair I'd help them up and/or they are free to sue whoever owns that building to bring it up to code as it's got to have handicap access at least in America it does.

I think crimes carried out against people for things they have no control over happen all the time and that in addressing the consequences and punishments of those crimes MOTIVE and PREMEDITATION are more important than anything else.

I'm sorry, I view "Queers" and "Pakis" as PEOPLE and if you assault a person out of the clear blue or because they are this or that or because you just had an argument with them and you turned it physical, then you should be held accountable for it. Is that wrong? Speech normalizes physical assaults does it now Mr. "punch a Nazi"? I mean YOU don't even believe that shit in practice, else you wouldn't say half the shit you say to me, unless of course you think I'm on some different level than you and it's ok to do.

Racial stereotyping isn't illegal now and if it were made illegal how would it be stopped? You stereotype people racially.

No, I don't think anything of calling someone "spergy", there's multiple definitions of the word and how I use it vs how it's taken can have a really big difference between them. I caused TIC to feel a certain way? @TIC is that true? I emboldened @Freedom? Those two are responsible for themselves and their views, I'm responsible for ME (and my child). Or....are YOU responsible for Antifa violence? If this whole view you have is good one way then certainly if you turn it around it's just as good and fair, or is it different?

I'm sorry that's been the case for you with the legal cases and all. I appreciate you fairly responding to the question I posed, and I am actually quite impressed you did so. THAT is maybe the start of an actual worthwhile discussion for once.

Well if the real world is anything like this:
Equity Through Accuracy: Changes to Our Hate Map
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...s-our-hate-map
In pursuit of a more accurate and more just hate map, the Intelligence Project (IP) has committed to collapsing the Black Separatist listing. We will still monitor these groups, but we will be transferring them to hate ideologies, including antisemitism, that better describe the harm their rhetoric inflicts.

This decision comes after many internal and external conversations. A change in the way the map is structured will better capture the power dynamics endemic to white supremacy. Black separatist groups land on the SPLC’s hate map because they propagate antisemitic, anti-LGBTQ and male supremacist views, not because they oppose a white supremacist power structure.


Then yeah I'm really getting more and more out of touch with reality & "the real world"....and I'll continue to do so, because a person is a person is a person no matter the religion, race, sexual orientation, or gender. And I also still consider trans to be a bit mental, but if someone is 18 and wants to do whatever they want to do, have at it (unless it's contact sports vs women, and I'll oppose the hell out of that).

Good chat, I appreciate it Beanz

[TIC]

Don't be so naive and stupid of course we are not all equal.

This is what i mean about the idealogical nonsense you have been shoving down everyones throats here for years. You try and bend the world around your own stupidity rather than make the effort to educate yourself.

Being deserving of equal respect is not the same thing as being equal. Just more of your simplistic PC nonsense. Men and Women are not equal. Adults and Children are not equal. An Employer and an Employee are not equal. A disabled person and an able bodied person are not equal.

You try telling somebody in a wheelchair, don't worry about the 40 steps up to the entrance to the building, because we are all equal. We are not equal and people have for years made any excuse to avoid facing that. It matters not that Universal access benefits able bodied people too. Parents with puchchairs, delivery personnel with trolleys, elderly people with mobility issues, all end up with one less barrier when ramps and alternative to steps are included but all over the world buildings are still going up under the premise that it is not something that needs to be considered. That is what your kind of reductive reasoning is responsible for.

You are pretending that crimes carried out against people for things they have no control over should not be evaluated at all, and that the kind of hate speech that normalised those kind of crimes be ignored too.

So no queer or Paki bashing, No such thing as racist stereotyping as far as you are concerned? No wonder you think nothing of saying thing like Spergy bastard yourself . No wonder that TIC feels emboldened by you giving him the green light to adopt it and Freedoms constant sick antisemitism did not even raise an eyebrow from you.

I know it exists because i spent over ten years involved in legal cases prosecuting it. I know like many what it is like to deal with people staring at those i love every day as though they were freaks, that is an uncomfortable fact you seem unwilling to process, but it is a fact just the same.

What you believe seems to have very little in common with the real world or reality at all.

We're not all equal? How?

So it's "stupid" to treat everyone as my equal?

How are those folks not equal?

I'd probably tell that person in the wheelchair I'd help them up and/or they are free to sue whoever owns that building to bring it up to code as it's got to have handicap access at least in America it does.

I think crimes carried out against people for things they have no control over happen all the time and that in addressing the consequences and punishments of those crimes MOTIVE and PREMEDITATION are more important than anything else.

I'm sorry, I view "Queers" and "Pakis" as PEOPLE and if you assault a person out of the clear blue or because they are this or that or because you just had an argument with them and you turned it physical, then you should be held accountable for it. Is that wrong? Speech normalizes physical assaults does it now Mr. "punch a Nazi"? I mean YOU don't even believe that shit in practice, else you wouldn't say half the shit you say to me, unless of course you think I'm on some different level than you and it's ok to do.

Racial stereotyping isn't illegal now and if it were made illegal how would it be stopped? You stereotype people racially.

No, I don't think anything of calling someone "spergy", there's multiple definitions of the word and how I use it vs how it's taken can have a really big difference between them. I caused TIC to feel a certain way? @TIC is that true? I emboldened @Freedom? Those two are responsible for themselves and their views, I'm responsible for ME (and my child). Or....are YOU responsible for Antifa violence? If this whole view you have is good one way then certainly if you turn it around it's just as good and fair, or is it different?

I'm sorry that's been the case for you with the legal cases and all. I appreciate you fairly responding to the question I posed, and I am actually quite impressed you did so. THAT is maybe the start of an actual worthwhile discussion for once.

Well if the real world is anything like this:
Equity Through Accuracy: Changes to Our Hate Map
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...s-our-hate-map
In pursuit of a more accurate and more just hate map, the Intelligence Project (IP) has committed to collapsing the Black Separatist listing. We will still monitor these groups, but we will be transferring them to hate ideologies, including antisemitism, that better describe the harm their rhetoric inflicts.

This decision comes after many internal and external conversations. A change in the way the map is structured will better capture the power dynamics endemic to white supremacy. Black separatist groups land on the SPLC’s hate map because they propagate antisemitic, anti-LGBTQ and male supremacist views, not because they oppose a white supremacist power structure.


Then yeah I'm really getting more and more out of touch with reality & "the real world"....and I'll continue to do so, because a person is a person is a person no matter the religion, race, sexual orientation, or gender. And I also still consider trans to be a bit mental, but if someone is 18 and wants to do whatever they want to do, have at it (unless it's contact sports vs women, and I'll oppose the hell out of that).

Good chat, I appreciate it Beanz

sorry el kabong you don't have that kind of power over me. i call larry spergy because he acts like a spergy toucher. sticks & stones

[walrus]

Thanks for confirming what an entitled privileged arsehole you are.

You will likely never have to deal with being at the sharp end of it (hate speech) or being a victim of it (hate crime), but for most decent people that is still no reason to deny its existence or impact upon millions.

I didn't know believing in literal EQUALITY made me entitled and privileged? That's super impressive.

No, I know I won't, because I don't believe in it.



Who do 'hate speech' and 'hate crime' laws protect? Why do we have them? I'll be impressed if you answer at all, but if you're bright then you should already know where this is going and if you do I don't reckon you will respond.


There should be 1 set of laws for ALL people because we are ALL equal as humans.

See kabong I think we run the same on that one. The Supreme Court has already ruled hate speech is protected speech. Just because we don’t like it or agree with it doesn’t mean it should be gotten rid of. Plus we see what politicians, the media and social media determine is hate speech. Gives them too much power. Also hate crimes, and I’m guessing here not trying to put words in your mouth, but hate crimes can be horrid and I am against the act of inflecting violence on someone due to sexual preference etc. I’m just not in favor of the legislature and judiciary adding additional punishments to crimes that have been on the books for decades and longer. We are supposed to be punished once for a crime we commit (supposed to be doesn’t really work out that way.) so this is not about supporting hate crimes, it’s just wanting to see the respective branches of government respect their spots. I also already said a while back when the Supreme Court backed thus shit they are the law of the land and this is how it is now. Doesn’t mean I have to agree 100% with them all the time, shoot they have reversed themselves (shit I forget how many times) gotta look it up.

[NoSavingByTheBell]

I believe a person should be allowed to say or write ANYTHING, and that the "victim" has the right to protest against the words used, and that the matter -- if pursued -- should be resolved in a court of law: what were the damages? if it can be proven, then so be it, that will be the legal decision at that point. I encourage anyone to pursue legal action if they believe they were harmed in any way. But to try to write laws about political correctness about what is acceptable speech, that has been why humanity is in a fast decline since 1990. It really started about that time. POlitical correctness, forbidden speech, etc.

[Beanz]

I believe a person should be allowed to say or write ANYTHING, and that the "victim" has the right to protest against the words used, and that the matter -- if pursued -- should be resolved in a court of law: what were the damages? if it can be proven, then so be it, that will be the legal decision at that point. I encourage anyone to pursue legal action if they believe they were harmed in any way. But to try to write laws about political correctness about what is acceptable speech, that has been why humanity is in a fast decline since 1990. It really started about that time. POlitical correctness, forbidden speech, etc.

Then you are naive and stupid. There is no such thing as absolute free speech. The entire Western Culture we live under would collapse if that were the case. Words are not just something you can pretend do not matter just to get yourself off the hook.

Political correctness is something you chaps in America introduced to the world and something that ABSOLUTELY rules your life. That is why you think everything can be solved by money. In the UK that would have always been seen as an anathema. The litigious culture that has now infected the UK is horrible and exploited terribly by the worst kind of people for the wrong reasons taking up valuable court time every day.

What a surprise when Incitement is in the news that now anything goes.

I have said it for 12 years.

You guys do not believe in personal responsibility for anything.

And you think other people are acting like babies?

[NoSavingByTheBell]

I believe a person should be allowed to say or write ANYTHING, and that the "victim" has the right to protest against the words used, and that the matter -- if pursued -- should be resolved in a court of law: what were the damages? if it can be proven, then so be it, that will be the legal decision at that point. I encourage anyone to pursue legal action if they believe they were harmed in any way. But to try to write laws about political correctness about what is acceptable speech, that has been why humanity is in a fast decline since 1990. It really started about that time. POlitical correctness, forbidden speech, etc.

Then you are naive and stupid. There is no such thing as absolute free speech. The entire Western Culture we live under would collapse if that were the case. Words are not just something you can pretend do not matter just to get yourself off the hook.

Political correctness is something you chaps in America introduced to the world and something that ABSOLUTELY rules your life. That is why you think everything can be solved by money. In the UK that would have always been seen as an anathema. The litigious culture that has now infected the UK is horrible and exploited terribly by the worst kind of people for the wrong reasons taking up valuable court time every day.

What a surprise when Incitement is in the news that now anything goes.

I have said it for 12 years.

You guys do not believe in personal responsibility for anything.

And you think other people are acting like babies?

"Then you are naive and stupid." NO wonder so many people didnt want to join the Zoom when for years you have spoken to people here like that. Lyle and Tito and many, many others were right that you dont have the kind of personality that people can keep forgiving for you pretending you havent thrown so many insults around that people wind up hating you. YOu once told me you got sucker-punched/knocked out 7 different times in your life. It is NO WONDER that has happened to you with the way you speak to people. YOu are your own worst enemy and you just can't see it. Fucking sad. "Then you are naive and stupid" you say, yeah, that will really go well.

[Beanz]

What you are both basically saying (Walrus and El Kabong) is that you do not consider hate speech or crimes motivated by hate of a minority to be crimes at all.

They may sound harsh, but that is exactly how dismissive you are being of a reality you just refuse to acknowledge. I realise that the UK is different to America but in this country we have had laws against hate speech since 1986 and Specific Hate Crime legislation since 2003.

One of the most overlooked reasons for the Criminal Justice system existing in the UK (and i would imagine in America) is to learn lessons from crimes so that future crimes can be prevented. Recognising the motivation behind crimes is a massive part of that. You may not care about the fact that the victim was singled out because of their colour, or their sexuality, or their religion or because of their disability but that does not make it irrelevant. In fact in can often be the crucial and primary motivation. To deny that would be monstrous.

BUT NEITHER OF YOU ARE THE VICTIM.

Criminal prosecutions are not primarily about protecting the rights of the criminal. They are about seeking justice for the victim and helping to keep the general public safer from future crimes that may be carried out by the perpetrator or others who share the same motivation.

That is why it is so important to acknowledge the hostility, prejudice and resentment that fueled the actions of the criminal. You by demanding they be ignored or denying not only the victims an acknowledgement of the EXTRA suffering you are denying society the chance of learning from that and trying to prevent it happening again.

The term handicap is a classic example of how easy it can be to remain ignorant. In fact your whole tone and argument. Most Disabled people in this country hate it and the idea that someone should need to be helped to have access rather than that barrier not be created without an alternative provision is just as mistaken. That is what digging in your heels and covering your eyes makes possible.

And no Nazis are not a protected minority at all. Their whole idealogy is about restricting not just the free speech of others but often of killing and maiming them.

It does you no favours when you refuse to respect the rights of a minority not to have to face hostilty and discrimination based on something beyond their control when you then in the same breath pretend that the free speech of Nazis and other bastards actually is something worth protecting.

It is hardly surprising then that people would draw very sane conclusions about the very unsavoury views/rights, you seem to be more worried about defending.