Who’s had the vaccine ? Side effects ?

[TIC]

Serious question to @TIC. Will you be getting the vax? I know you don’t believe in Covid, but even if this is the Flu, it can’t be denied that there have been more cases and deaths than usual of whatever it is.
So a vaccine to stop the contraction of it and passing on of it would be useful , no?

no i will not be getting the vax. can you tell me how you know the causes of these deaths you refer to? & how you know covid is a virus caught through the air or off surfaces? you are forming axioms but i want to establish how you know them to be true before we can get to your last question. serious questions

I don’t know the causes of the deaths, but I do know more people have been ill,hospitalised or died than normally do. Those are undeniable facts. I can’t remember Hospitals being at “Breaking point everywhere” before.
Call it Covid, call it what you like , but there is something.
And I don’t “know” that covid is a virus that can be caught through the air or off surfaces. But I repeat , there is something.
If you don’t think this is the case , can you explain why more people have been ill, hospitalised or died than normally do each year?
As for my final question, it would seem that the vaccine rollout is working to control this “virus” or whatever you wish to call it.

thank you for the honest response. i have to disagree with you about hospitals being at breaking point. you are making statements that you can't prove & making them out to be facts. i can only speak from my own experiences but that is not the case from what i have seen. if you know more people have been ill hospitalized or died than normally do can you provide me the proof you used to confirm this & how you now know it to be true? we can't get to your final question until we can establish what is true

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ed-kingdom-uk/
Deaths over 15% up from 2019 to 2020.
As for hospitals, I’m not sure where you’re from, but I can assure you that in the U.K. hospitals have been swamped and I know that because I know people that are working in hospitals.
I have to say, it does see, like I’m having to justify everything, whereas I’m not getting the same back from you.
So over to you to produce some facts.

posting statistics isn't proof of cause of deaths. i can assure you the hospitals in my area haven't been swamped because i have visited many of them in my state on a weekly or monthly basis over the last two years or so. a fact is that you are unable to prove your belief. prove to me this something you speak of is real so we can both know it's the truth

But this is it, all I said was that there were MORE DEATHS. I didn’t say they were due to Covid. But they are due to SOMETHING, so what is that? You tell me.
And as for your hospitals not being swamped, well I suppose it depends where you live. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you’re from Oz, so it’s no surprise that your hospitals aren’t swamped. You and New Zealand are virtually the only places in the World that have this so called virus or whatever it is or whatever you want to call it under control.
So again, I’m not saying it’s “Real” , but if it isn’t real , then YOU need to justify the figures I’ve posted.
Now I could get all indignant and annoyed at you like Beanz, and I can see why he is, but I refuse to lose my rag about this until I can get some sort of concrete belief and facts FROM YOU.
So the time has come my friend to put some meat on the bone.
Please don’t disappoint me and come back with the old “I don’t have to answer to anyone shtik.”

for a start excess morality can be measured in several ways. raw number of deaths, p-score, years of life lost. they all have limitations. there are a number of important points about this excess mortality number & what it means & what it doesn't mean & what we can extrapolate, what we can't know & what we should take into account. there are many different things to consider. could there not be other explanations for why there may be excess deaths other than the official story of this excess mortality? what if there are other factors? examples from personal experience is elderly in care homes being clumped together with the sick & not taken to hospitals, or dying after being put on a ventilator. could this not account for some of these excess deaths? there have been increases in diabetes, alzheimer's, high blood pressure, pneumonia. the lockdowns themselves, disruptions due to the plandemic with people i know not getting treatment or surgeries due to cancellations, i knew an older lady who avoided her doctor & hospitals due to fear of exposure to the virus, this may have contributed to her death, isolating people indoors, scared & afraid, stress, unemployment, deaths of despair. because of the wide spread disruptions people haven't had access to the types of medical services that they would have for their basic medical conditions that have nothing to do with convid 19. there are so many different ways that what is happening on the grander scale & the restrictions themselves can be contributory to an excess death number. so could there not be many other factors that play into this? i haven't even brought up vaccines but i know young healthy people that have had sever reactions, some have had none. but who knows how a bad reaction could affect someone with a comorbidity disease or two or an elderly person & i'm not just talking about the convidvaccine. why would you get annoyed with me trying to find the truth? you have admitted that you don't know the causes of death & that you don't know that convid is a virus caught through the air or of surfaces, neither do i. but unlike you i prefer to know rather than believe what others have said & i base my knowledge on real life experiences

[Primo Carnera]

Serious question to @TIC. Will you be getting the vax? I know you don’t believe in Covid, but even if this is the Flu, it can’t be denied that there have been more cases and deaths than usual of whatever it is.
So a vaccine to stop the contraction of it and passing on of it would be useful , no?

no i will not be getting the vax. can you tell me how you know the causes of these deaths you refer to? & how you know covid is a virus caught through the air or off surfaces? you are forming axioms but i want to establish how you know them to be true before we can get to your last question. serious questions

I don’t know the causes of the deaths, but I do know more people have been ill,hospitalised or died than normally do. Those are undeniable facts. I can’t remember Hospitals being at “Breaking point everywhere” before.
Call it Covid, call it what you like , but there is something.
And I don’t “know” that covid is a virus that can be caught through the air or off surfaces. But I repeat , there is something.
If you don’t think this is the case , can you explain why more people have been ill, hospitalised or died than normally do each year?
As for my final question, it would seem that the vaccine rollout is working to control this “virus” or whatever you wish to call it.

thank you for the honest response. i have to disagree with you about hospitals being at breaking point. you are making statements that you can't prove & making them out to be facts. i can only speak from my own experiences but that is not the case from what i have seen. if you know more people have been ill hospitalized or died than normally do can you provide me the proof you used to confirm this & how you now know it to be true? we can't get to your final question until we can establish what is true

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ed-kingdom-uk/
Deaths over 15% up from 2019 to 2020.
As for hospitals, I’m not sure where you’re from, but I can assure you that in the U.K. hospitals have been swamped and I know that because I know people that are working in hospitals.
I have to say, it does see, like I’m having to justify everything, whereas I’m not getting the same back from you.
So over to you to produce some facts.

posting statistics isn't proof of cause of deaths. i can assure you the hospitals in my area haven't been swamped because i have visited many of them in my state on a weekly or monthly basis over the last two years or so. a fact is that you are unable to prove your belief. prove to me this something you speak of is real so we can both know it's the truth

But this is it, all I said was that there were MORE DEATHS. I didn’t say they were due to Covid. But they are due to SOMETHING, so what is that? You tell me.
And as for your hospitals not being swamped, well I suppose it depends where you live. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you’re from Oz, so it’s no surprise that your hospitals aren’t swamped. You and New Zealand are virtually the only places in the World that have this so called virus or whatever it is or whatever you want to call it under control.
So again, I’m not saying it’s “Real” , but if it isn’t real , then YOU need to justify the figures I’ve posted.
Now I could get all indignant and annoyed at you like Beanz, and I can see why he is, but I refuse to lose my rag about this until I can get some sort of concrete belief and facts FROM YOU.
So the time has come my friend to put some meat on the bone.
Please don’t disappoint me and come back with the old “I don’t have to answer to anyone shtik.”

for a start excess morality can be measured in several ways. raw number of deaths, p-score, years of life lost. they all have limitations. there are a number of important points about this excess mortality number & what it means & what it doesn't mean & what we can extrapolate, what we can't know & what we should take into account. there are many different things to consider. could there not be other explanations for why there may be excess deaths other than the official story of this excess mortality? what if there are other factors? examples from personal experience is elderly in care homes being clumped together with the sick & not taken to hospitals, or dying after being put on a ventilator. could this not account for some of these excess deaths? there have been increases in diabetes, alzheimer's, high blood pressure, pneumonia. the lockdowns themselves, disruptions due to the plandemic with people i know not getting treatment or surgeries due to cancellations, i knew an older lady who avoided her doctor & hospitals due to fear of exposure to the virus, this may have contributed to her death, isolating people indoors, scared & afraid, stress, unemployment, deaths of despair. because of the wide spread disruptions people haven't had access to the types of medical services that they would have for their basic medical conditions that have nothing to do with convid 19. there are so many different ways that what is happening on the grander scale & the restrictions themselves can be contributory to an excess death number. so could there not be many other factors that play into this? i haven't even brought up vaccines but i know young healthy people that have had sever reactions, some have had none. but who knows how a bad reaction could affect someone with a comorbidity disease or two or an elderly person & i'm not just talking about the convidvaccine. why would you get annoyed with me trying to find the truth? you have admitted that you don't know the causes of death & that you don't know that convid is a virus caught through the air or of surfaces, neither do i. but unlike you i prefer to know rather than believe what others have said & i base my knowledge on real life experiences

Nope, not having it. You just spent over 500 words saying ifs, buts and maybes. You threw every possible way you can die into it without saying anything.
I’m not annoyed with you trying to find the truth. I’m also trying to find the truth.
You over complicate it. Ok , Covid doesn’t exist, fine. There I said it. BUT……..
There were 15% more deaths than the previous year, that is not a little inconsequence, that is a serious difference. So it has to because of something?
You’re quick to point out that it isn’t Covid. Fine I believe you, IF you can say the reason behind the extra deaths. But you can’t , can you?
Now you might be right, not once have I said you’re not. But the only way you will be taken seriously is by giving an alternative.
Not throwing the medical Journal at it.
So like you, I prefer to know . So tell me, I’m all ears.

[TIC]

Serious question to @TIC. Will you be getting the vax? I know you don’t believe in Covid, but even if this is the Flu, it can’t be denied that there have been more cases and deaths than usual of whatever it is.
So a vaccine to stop the contraction of it and passing on of it would be useful , no?

no i will not be getting the vax. can you tell me how you know the causes of these deaths you refer to? & how you know covid is a virus caught through the air or off surfaces? you are forming axioms but i want to establish how you know them to be true before we can get to your last question. serious questions

I don’t know the causes of the deaths, but I do know more people have been ill,hospitalised or died than normally do. Those are undeniable facts. I can’t remember Hospitals being at “Breaking point everywhere” before.
Call it Covid, call it what you like , but there is something.
And I don’t “know” that covid is a virus that can be caught through the air or off surfaces. But I repeat , there is something.
If you don’t think this is the case , can you explain why more people have been ill, hospitalised or died than normally do each year?
As for my final question, it would seem that the vaccine rollout is working to control this “virus” or whatever you wish to call it.

thank you for the honest response. i have to disagree with you about hospitals being at breaking point. you are making statements that you can't prove & making them out to be facts. i can only speak from my own experiences but that is not the case from what i have seen. if you know more people have been ill hospitalized or died than normally do can you provide me the proof you used to confirm this & how you now know it to be true? we can't get to your final question until we can establish what is true

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ed-kingdom-uk/
Deaths over 15% up from 2019 to 2020.
As for hospitals, I’m not sure where you’re from, but I can assure you that in the U.K. hospitals have been swamped and I know that because I know people that are working in hospitals.
I have to say, it does see, like I’m having to justify everything, whereas I’m not getting the same back from you.
So over to you to produce some facts.

posting statistics isn't proof of cause of deaths. i can assure you the hospitals in my area haven't been swamped because i have visited many of them in my state on a weekly or monthly basis over the last two years or so. a fact is that you are unable to prove your belief. prove to me this something you speak of is real so we can both know it's the truth

But this is it, all I said was that there were MORE DEATHS. I didn’t say they were due to Covid. But they are due to SOMETHING, so what is that? You tell me.
And as for your hospitals not being swamped, well I suppose it depends where you live. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you’re from Oz, so it’s no surprise that your hospitals aren’t swamped. You and New Zealand are virtually the only places in the World that have this so called virus or whatever it is or whatever you want to call it under control.
So again, I’m not saying it’s “Real” , but if it isn’t real , then YOU need to justify the figures I’ve posted.
Now I could get all indignant and annoyed at you like Beanz, and I can see why he is, but I refuse to lose my rag about this until I can get some sort of concrete belief and facts FROM YOU.
So the time has come my friend to put some meat on the bone.
Please don’t disappoint me and come back with the old “I don’t have to answer to anyone shtik.”

for a start excess morality can be measured in several ways. raw number of deaths, p-score, years of life lost. they all have limitations. there are a number of important points about this excess mortality number & what it means & what it doesn't mean & what we can extrapolate, what we can't know & what we should take into account. there are many different things to consider. could there not be other explanations for why there may be excess deaths other than the official story of this excess mortality? what if there are other factors? examples from personal experience is elderly in care homes being clumped together with the sick & not taken to hospitals, or dying after being put on a ventilator. could this not account for some of these excess deaths? there have been increases in diabetes, alzheimer's, high blood pressure, pneumonia. the lockdowns themselves, disruptions due to the plandemic with people i know not getting treatment or surgeries due to cancellations, i knew an older lady who avoided her doctor & hospitals due to fear of exposure to the virus, this may have contributed to her death, isolating people indoors, scared & afraid, stress, unemployment, deaths of despair. because of the wide spread disruptions people haven't had access to the types of medical services that they would have for their basic medical conditions that have nothing to do with convid 19. there are so many different ways that what is happening on the grander scale & the restrictions themselves can be contributory to an excess death number. so could there not be many other factors that play into this? i haven't even brought up vaccines but i know young healthy people that have had sever reactions, some have had none. but who knows how a bad reaction could affect someone with a comorbidity disease or two or an elderly person & i'm not just talking about the convidvaccine. why would you get annoyed with me trying to find the truth? you have admitted that you don't know the causes of death & that you don't know that convid is a virus caught through the air or of surfaces, neither do i. but unlike you i prefer to know rather than believe what others have said & i base my knowledge on real life experiences

Nope, not having it. You just spent over 500 words saying ifs, buts and maybes. You threw every possible way you can die into it without saying anything.
I’m not annoyed with you trying to find the truth. I’m also trying to find the truth.
You over complicate it. Ok , Covid doesn’t exist, fine. There I said it. BUT……..
There were 15% more deaths than the previous year, that is not a little inconsequence, that is a serious difference. So it has to because of something?
You’re quick to point out that it isn’t Covid. Fine I believe you, IF you can say the reason behind the extra deaths. But you can’t , can you?
Now you might be right, not once have I said you’re not. But the only way you will be taken seriously is by giving an alternative.
Not throwing the medical Journal at it.
So like you, I prefer to know . So tell me, I’m all ears.

if you are trying to find the truth then lets be honest & deal with what we both know to be true. i am only taking your fifteen percent increase at face value & gave you many examples that could be contributory to an excess death number. you & i can't know the causes unless we are doing the autopsy's. i gave you many possible reasons, alternatives & possibilities & left out others. you don't know there were fifteen percent more deaths do you? you brought this figure into the conversation & if you want to go down this track then you will need to back it up with proof. i would prefer to deal with what we can prove to each other to be true from real life experiences

[Primo Carnera]

Serious question to @TIC. Will you be getting the vax? I know you don’t believe in Covid, but even if this is the Flu, it can’t be denied that there have been more cases and deaths than usual of whatever it is.
So a vaccine to stop the contraction of it and passing on of it would be useful , no?

no i will not be getting the vax. can you tell me how you know the causes of these deaths you refer to? & how you know covid is a virus caught through the air or off surfaces? you are forming axioms but i want to establish how you know them to be true before we can get to your last question. serious questions

I don’t know the causes of the deaths, but I do know more people have been ill,hospitalised or died than normally do. Those are undeniable facts. I can’t remember Hospitals being at “Breaking point everywhere” before.
Call it Covid, call it what you like , but there is something.
And I don’t “know” that covid is a virus that can be caught through the air or off surfaces. But I repeat , there is something.
If you don’t think this is the case , can you explain why more people have been ill, hospitalised or died than normally do each year?
As for my final question, it would seem that the vaccine rollout is working to control this “virus” or whatever you wish to call it.

thank you for the honest response. i have to disagree with you about hospitals being at breaking point. you are making statements that you can't prove & making them out to be facts. i can only speak from my own experiences but that is not the case from what i have seen. if you know more people have been ill hospitalized or died than normally do can you provide me the proof you used to confirm this & how you now know it to be true? we can't get to your final question until we can establish what is true

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ed-kingdom-uk/
Deaths over 15% up from 2019 to 2020.
As for hospitals, I’m not sure where you’re from, but I can assure you that in the U.K. hospitals have been swamped and I know that because I know people that are working in hospitals.
I have to say, it does see, like I’m having to justify everything, whereas I’m not getting the same back from you.
So over to you to produce some facts.

posting statistics isn't proof of cause of deaths. i can assure you the hospitals in my area haven't been swamped because i have visited many of them in my state on a weekly or monthly basis over the last two years or so. a fact is that you are unable to prove your belief. prove to me this something you speak of is real so we can both know it's the truth

But this is it, all I said was that there were MORE DEATHS. I didn’t say they were due to Covid. But they are due to SOMETHING, so what is that? You tell me.
And as for your hospitals not being swamped, well I suppose it depends where you live. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you’re from Oz, so it’s no surprise that your hospitals aren’t swamped. You and New Zealand are virtually the only places in the World that have this so called virus or whatever it is or whatever you want to call it under control.
So again, I’m not saying it’s “Real” , but if it isn’t real , then YOU need to justify the figures I’ve posted.
Now I could get all indignant and annoyed at you like Beanz, and I can see why he is, but I refuse to lose my rag about this until I can get some sort of concrete belief and facts FROM YOU.
So the time has come my friend to put some meat on the bone.
Please don’t disappoint me and come back with the old “I don’t have to answer to anyone shtik.”

for a start excess morality can be measured in several ways. raw number of deaths, p-score, years of life lost. they all have limitations. there are a number of important points about this excess mortality number & what it means & what it doesn't mean & what we can extrapolate, what we can't know & what we should take into account. there are many different things to consider. could there not be other explanations for why there may be excess deaths other than the official story of this excess mortality? what if there are other factors? examples from personal experience is elderly in care homes being clumped together with the sick & not taken to hospitals, or dying after being put on a ventilator. could this not account for some of these excess deaths? there have been increases in diabetes, alzheimer's, high blood pressure, pneumonia. the lockdowns themselves, disruptions due to the plandemic with people i know not getting treatment or surgeries due to cancellations, i knew an older lady who avoided her doctor & hospitals due to fear of exposure to the virus, this may have contributed to her death, isolating people indoors, scared & afraid, stress, unemployment, deaths of despair. because of the wide spread disruptions people haven't had access to the types of medical services that they would have for their basic medical conditions that have nothing to do with convid 19. there are so many different ways that what is happening on the grander scale & the restrictions themselves can be contributory to an excess death number. so could there not be many other factors that play into this? i haven't even brought up vaccines but i know young healthy people that have had sever reactions, some have had none. but who knows how a bad reaction could affect someone with a comorbidity disease or two or an elderly person & i'm not just talking about the convidvaccine. why would you get annoyed with me trying to find the truth? you have admitted that you don't know the causes of death & that you don't know that convid is a virus caught through the air or of surfaces, neither do i. but unlike you i prefer to know rather than believe what others have said & i base my knowledge on real life experiences

Nope, not having it. You just spent over 500 words saying ifs, buts and maybes. You threw every possible way you can die into it without saying anything.
I’m not annoyed with you trying to find the truth. I’m also trying to find the truth.
You over complicate it. Ok , Covid doesn’t exist, fine. There I said it. BUT……..
There were 15% more deaths than the previous year, that is not a little inconsequence, that is a serious difference. So it has to because of something?
You’re quick to point out that it isn’t Covid. Fine I believe you, IF you can say the reason behind the extra deaths. But you can’t , can you?
Now you might be right, not once have I said you’re not. But the only way you will be taken seriously is by giving an alternative.
Not throwing the medical Journal at it.
So like you, I prefer to know . So tell me, I’m all ears.

if you are trying to find the truth then lets be honest & deal with what we both know to be true. i am only taking your fifteen percent increase at face value & gave you many examples that could be contributory to an excess death number. you & i can't know the causes unless we are doing the autopsy's. i gave you many possible reasons, alternatives & possibilities & left out others. you don't know there were fifteen percent more deaths do you? you brought this figure into the conversation & if you want to go down this track then you will need to back it up with proof. i would prefer to deal with what we can prove to each other to be true from real life experiences

Come on Mate , open the link , and do the Math as they say.
“ There were over 695.8 thousand deaths in the United Kingdom in 2020, compared with 604 thousand in 2019.” How is that not backing it up with proof?
One thing is an absolute certainty, and that’s that I have provided more proof in one post than you have in 12 months.
Now if you’re gonna disbelieve everything without offering a reason why or a counter argument with similar stats to back your point, then you lose any credibility you have had.
You see, I’m not getting all Shouty McShouty and ridiculing your belief. I have no need to. Your lack of any evidence to back up your belief does that all on its own.
You could be right, this could all be a scam, but you’re gonna have to show something that backs that up.

[TIC]

Serious question to @TIC. Will you be getting the vax? I know you don’t believe in Covid, but even if this is the Flu, it can’t be denied that there have been more cases and deaths than usual of whatever it is.
So a vaccine to stop the contraction of it and passing on of it would be useful , no?

no i will not be getting the vax. can you tell me how you know the causes of these deaths you refer to? & how you know covid is a virus caught through the air or off surfaces? you are forming axioms but i want to establish how you know them to be true before we can get to your last question. serious questions

I don’t know the causes of the deaths, but I do know more people have been ill,hospitalised or died than normally do. Those are undeniable facts. I can’t remember Hospitals being at “Breaking point everywhere” before.
Call it Covid, call it what you like , but there is something.
And I don’t “know” that covid is a virus that can be caught through the air or off surfaces. But I repeat , there is something.
If you don’t think this is the case , can you explain why more people have been ill, hospitalised or died than normally do each year?
As for my final question, it would seem that the vaccine rollout is working to control this “virus” or whatever you wish to call it.

thank you for the honest response. i have to disagree with you about hospitals being at breaking point. you are making statements that you can't prove & making them out to be facts. i can only speak from my own experiences but that is not the case from what i have seen. if you know more people have been ill hospitalized or died than normally do can you provide me the proof you used to confirm this & how you now know it to be true? we can't get to your final question until we can establish what is true

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ed-kingdom-uk/
Deaths over 15% up from 2019 to 2020.
As for hospitals, I’m not sure where you’re from, but I can assure you that in the U.K. hospitals have been swamped and I know that because I know people that are working in hospitals.
I have to say, it does see, like I’m having to justify everything, whereas I’m not getting the same back from you.
So over to you to produce some facts.

posting statistics isn't proof of cause of deaths. i can assure you the hospitals in my area haven't been swamped because i have visited many of them in my state on a weekly or monthly basis over the last two years or so. a fact is that you are unable to prove your belief. prove to me this something you speak of is real so we can both know it's the truth

But this is it, all I said was that there were MORE DEATHS. I didn’t say they were due to Covid. But they are due to SOMETHING, so what is that? You tell me.
And as for your hospitals not being swamped, well I suppose it depends where you live. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you’re from Oz, so it’s no surprise that your hospitals aren’t swamped. You and New Zealand are virtually the only places in the World that have this so called virus or whatever it is or whatever you want to call it under control.
So again, I’m not saying it’s “Real” , but if it isn’t real , then YOU need to justify the figures I’ve posted.
Now I could get all indignant and annoyed at you like Beanz, and I can see why he is, but I refuse to lose my rag about this until I can get some sort of concrete belief and facts FROM YOU.
So the time has come my friend to put some meat on the bone.
Please don’t disappoint me and come back with the old “I don’t have to answer to anyone shtik.”

for a start excess morality can be measured in several ways. raw number of deaths, p-score, years of life lost. they all have limitations. there are a number of important points about this excess mortality number & what it means & what it doesn't mean & what we can extrapolate, what we can't know & what we should take into account. there are many different things to consider. could there not be other explanations for why there may be excess deaths other than the official story of this excess mortality? what if there are other factors? examples from personal experience is elderly in care homes being clumped together with the sick & not taken to hospitals, or dying after being put on a ventilator. could this not account for some of these excess deaths? there have been increases in diabetes, alzheimer's, high blood pressure, pneumonia. the lockdowns themselves, disruptions due to the plandemic with people i know not getting treatment or surgeries due to cancellations, i knew an older lady who avoided her doctor & hospitals due to fear of exposure to the virus, this may have contributed to her death, isolating people indoors, scared & afraid, stress, unemployment, deaths of despair. because of the wide spread disruptions people haven't had access to the types of medical services that they would have for their basic medical conditions that have nothing to do with convid 19. there are so many different ways that what is happening on the grander scale & the restrictions themselves can be contributory to an excess death number. so could there not be many other factors that play into this? i haven't even brought up vaccines but i know young healthy people that have had sever reactions, some have had none. but who knows how a bad reaction could affect someone with a comorbidity disease or two or an elderly person & i'm not just talking about the convidvaccine. why would you get annoyed with me trying to find the truth? you have admitted that you don't know the causes of death & that you don't know that convid is a virus caught through the air or of surfaces, neither do i. but unlike you i prefer to know rather than believe what others have said & i base my knowledge on real life experiences

Nope, not having it. You just spent over 500 words saying ifs, buts and maybes. You threw every possible way you can die into it without saying anything.
I’m not annoyed with you trying to find the truth. I’m also trying to find the truth.
You over complicate it. Ok , Covid doesn’t exist, fine. There I said it. BUT……..
There were 15% more deaths than the previous year, that is not a little inconsequence, that is a serious difference. So it has to because of something?
You’re quick to point out that it isn’t Covid. Fine I believe you, IF you can say the reason behind the extra deaths. But you can’t , can you?
Now you might be right, not once have I said you’re not. But the only way you will be taken seriously is by giving an alternative.
Not throwing the medical Journal at it.
So like you, I prefer to know . So tell me, I’m all ears.

if you are trying to find the truth then lets be honest & deal with what we both know to be true. i am only taking your fifteen percent increase at face value & gave you many examples that could be contributory to an excess death number. you & i can't know the causes unless we are doing the autopsy's. i gave you many possible reasons, alternatives & possibilities & left out others. you don't know there were fifteen percent more deaths do you? you brought this figure into the conversation & if you want to go down this track then you will need to back it up with proof. i would prefer to deal with what we can prove to each other to be true from real life experiences

Come on Mate , open the link , and do the Math as they say.
“ There were over 695.8 thousand deaths in the United Kingdom in 2020, compared with 604 thousand in 2019.” How is that not backing it up with proof?
One thing is an absolute certainty, and that’s that I have provided more proof in one post than you have in 12 months.
Now if you’re gonna disbelieve everything without offering a reason why or a counter argument with similar stats to back your point, then you lose any credibility you have had.
You see, I’m not getting all Shouty McShouty and ridiculing your belief. I have no need to. Your lack of any evidence to back up your belief does that all on its own.
You could be right, this could all be a scam, but you’re gonna have to show something that backs that up.

i entertained your figures & gave you many possibilities for the potential increase. you completely ignored the possibilities i gave. you don't know the cause of these deaths but refuse to acknowledge that those i offered could be possibilities. anyway it's not proof. it's you believing what someone has told you. that's why i suggested that we deal with what we can prove to be true through our own real life experiences. you are the one continuing to believe things without actually knowing. i don't care about credibility. i'm interested in truth & knowing

[Beanz]

It is Impossible to take somebody seriously who argues that "evidence isn't proof".

[TIC]

It is Impossible to take somebody seriously who argues that "evidence isn't proof".

this isn't a court case where we both provide our evidence & then it's decided what is true. i am asking for proof of peoples beliefs to prove what is true

[Primo Carnera]

Serious question to @TIC. Will you be getting the vax? I know you don’t believe in Covid, but even if this is the Flu, it can’t be denied that there have been more cases and deaths than usual of whatever it is.
So a vaccine to stop the contraction of it and passing on of it would be useful , no?

no i will not be getting the vax. can you tell me how you know the causes of these deaths you refer to? & how you know covid is a virus caught through the air or off surfaces? you are forming axioms but i want to establish how you know them to be true before we can get to your last question. serious questions

I don’t know the causes of the deaths, but I do know more people have been ill,hospitalised or died than normally do. Those are undeniable facts. I can’t remember Hospitals being at “Breaking point everywhere” before.
Call it Covid, call it what you like , but there is something.
And I don’t “know” that covid is a virus that can be caught through the air or off surfaces. But I repeat , there is something.
If you don’t think this is the case , can you explain why more people have been ill, hospitalised or died than normally do each year?
As for my final question, it would seem that the vaccine rollout is working to control this “virus” or whatever you wish to call it.

thank you for the honest response. i have to disagree with you about hospitals being at breaking point. you are making statements that you can't prove & making them out to be facts. i can only speak from my own experiences but that is not the case from what i have seen. if you know more people have been ill hospitalized or died than normally do can you provide me the proof you used to confirm this & how you now know it to be true? we can't get to your final question until we can establish what is true

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ed-kingdom-uk/
Deaths over 15% up from 2019 to 2020.
As for hospitals, I’m not sure where you’re from, but I can assure you that in the U.K. hospitals have been swamped and I know that because I know people that are working in hospitals.
I have to say, it does see, like I’m having to justify everything, whereas I’m not getting the same back from you.
So over to you to produce some facts.

posting statistics isn't proof of cause of deaths. i can assure you the hospitals in my area haven't been swamped because i have visited many of them in my state on a weekly or monthly basis over the last two years or so. a fact is that you are unable to prove your belief. prove to me this something you speak of is real so we can both know it's the truth

But this is it, all I said was that there were MORE DEATHS. I didn’t say they were due to Covid. But they are due to SOMETHING, so what is that? You tell me.
And as for your hospitals not being swamped, well I suppose it depends where you live. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you’re from Oz, so it’s no surprise that your hospitals aren’t swamped. You and New Zealand are virtually the only places in the World that have this so called virus or whatever it is or whatever you want to call it under control.
So again, I’m not saying it’s “Real” , but if it isn’t real , then YOU need to justify the figures I’ve posted.
Now I could get all indignant and annoyed at you like Beanz, and I can see why he is, but I refuse to lose my rag about this until I can get some sort of concrete belief and facts FROM YOU.
So the time has come my friend to put some meat on the bone.
Please don’t disappoint me and come back with the old “I don’t have to answer to anyone shtik.”

for a start excess morality can be measured in several ways. raw number of deaths, p-score, years of life lost. they all have limitations. there are a number of important points about this excess mortality number & what it means & what it doesn't mean & what we can extrapolate, what we can't know & what we should take into account. there are many different things to consider. could there not be other explanations for why there may be excess deaths other than the official story of this excess mortality? what if there are other factors? examples from personal experience is elderly in care homes being clumped together with the sick & not taken to hospitals, or dying after being put on a ventilator. could this not account for some of these excess deaths? there have been increases in diabetes, alzheimer's, high blood pressure, pneumonia. the lockdowns themselves, disruptions due to the plandemic with people i know not getting treatment or surgeries due to cancellations, i knew an older lady who avoided her doctor & hospitals due to fear of exposure to the virus, this may have contributed to her death, isolating people indoors, scared & afraid, stress, unemployment, deaths of despair. because of the wide spread disruptions people haven't had access to the types of medical services that they would have for their basic medical conditions that have nothing to do with convid 19. there are so many different ways that what is happening on the grander scale & the restrictions themselves can be contributory to an excess death number. so could there not be many other factors that play into this? i haven't even brought up vaccines but i know young healthy people that have had sever reactions, some have had none. but who knows how a bad reaction could affect someone with a comorbidity disease or two or an elderly person & i'm not just talking about the convidvaccine. why would you get annoyed with me trying to find the truth? you have admitted that you don't know the causes of death & that you don't know that convid is a virus caught through the air or of surfaces, neither do i. but unlike you i prefer to know rather than believe what others have said & i base my knowledge on real life experiences

Nope, not having it. You just spent over 500 words saying ifs, buts and maybes. You threw every possible way you can die into it without saying anything.
I’m not annoyed with you trying to find the truth. I’m also trying to find the truth.
You over complicate it. Ok , Covid doesn’t exist, fine. There I said it. BUT……..
There were 15% more deaths than the previous year, that is not a little inconsequence, that is a serious difference. So it has to because of something?
You’re quick to point out that it isn’t Covid. Fine I believe you, IF you can say the reason behind the extra deaths. But you can’t , can you?
Now you might be right, not once have I said you’re not. But the only way you will be taken seriously is by giving an alternative.
Not throwing the medical Journal at it.
So like you, I prefer to know . So tell me, I’m all ears.

if you are trying to find the truth then lets be honest & deal with what we both know to be true. i am only taking your fifteen percent increase at face value & gave you many examples that could be contributory to an excess death number. you & i can't know the causes unless we are doing the autopsy's. i gave you many possible reasons, alternatives & possibilities & left out others. you don't know there were fifteen percent more deaths do you? you brought this figure into the conversation & if you want to go down this track then you will need to back it up with proof. i would prefer to deal with what we can prove to each other to be true from real life experiences

Come on Mate , open the link , and do the Math as they say.
“ There were over 695.8 thousand deaths in the United Kingdom in 2020, compared with 604 thousand in 2019.” How is that not backing it up with proof?
One thing is an absolute certainty, and that’s that I have provided more proof in one post than you have in 12 months.
Now if you’re gonna disbelieve everything without offering a reason why or a counter argument with similar stats to back your point, then you lose any credibility you have had.
You see, I’m not getting all Shouty McShouty and ridiculing your belief. I have no need to. Your lack of any evidence to back up your belief does that all on its own.
You could be right, this could all be a scam, but you’re gonna have to show something that backs that up.

i entertained your figures & gave you many possibilities for the potential increase. you completely ignored the possibilities i gave. you don't know the cause of these deaths but refuse to acknowledge that those i offered could be possibilities. anyway it's not proof. it's you believing what someone has told you. that's why i suggested that we deal with what we can prove to be true through our own real life experiences. you are the one continuing to believe things without actually knowing. i don't care about credibility. i'm interested in truth & knowing

Ok, that’s my cue to sign out of this debate. I really tried to help you prove your belief, I calmly put my point over , produced FACTUAL EVIDENCE , but unfortunately if you don’t like what is put in front of you , then it’s not true!
You must’ve been a nightmare to teach at school, or should I use the present tense rather than the past?