How good was Floyd?

[mikeeod]

I would have Thomas Hitman Hearns on a p4p ATG list and he lost to great fighters in Leonard and Hagler. He was fearless and went up the weights destroying most along the way. Just because he lost does not mean he was lower than Floyd.

Absolutely! I was only talking about this the other day. Unfortunately there are “ifs” that stop him being ranked maybe top 1 or 2.
1. If he had beaten SRL in one or both of their fights (not inconceivable)
2. If he hadn’t thrown his game plan out of the window against Hagler at the first bell because of something that riled him in the build up week.
And also , I’m more convinced about him than any other Boxer ,that if he fought Floyd in a mythical match up that he would beat him .

Tommy was a beast- I feel like he won the Leonard rematch pretty handily but they scored it a draw. No shame in the first loss at all, that was a great match up between two legit ATGs in their primes. No shame in the Hagler loss either- he moved up to take on one of the best ATG middles ever and lost the most exciting fight in the history of the sport. The losses to Barkley hurt Tommy’s ranking more than anything else- Barkley had his number but outside of that he shouldn’t have been anywhere near Tommy’s level.

Head to head Tommy and Ray destroy Floyd at 147. As Master said, however, 147 wasn’t Floyd’s best weight and the other two were HUGE and maybe in the top 3 best ever at the weight. Historically ranking them I put Ray above Floyd (by a few spots) and Tommy behind him.

[Master]

I would have Thomas Hitman Hearns on a p4p ATG list and he lost to great fighters in Leonard and Hagler. He was fearless and went up the weights destroying most along the way. Just because he lost does not mean he was lower than Floyd.

Absolutely! I was only talking about this the other day. Unfortunately there are “ifs” that stop him being ranked maybe top 1 or 2.
1. If he had beaten SRL in one or both of their fights (not inconceivable)
2. If he hadn’t thrown his game plan out of the window against Hagler at the first bell because of something that riled him in the build up week.
And also , I’m more convinced about him than any other Boxer ,that if he fought Floyd in a mythical match up that he would beat him .

Tommy was a beast- I feel like he won the Leonard rematch pretty handily but they scored it a draw. No shame in the first loss at all, that was a great match up between two legit ATGs in their primes. No shame in the Hagler loss either- he moved up to take on one of the best ATG middles ever and lost the most exciting fight in the history of the sport. The losses to Barkley hurt Tommy’s ranking more than anything else- Barkley had his number but outside of that he shouldn’t have been anywhere near Tommy’s level.

Head to head Tommy and Ray destroy Floyd at 147. As Master said, however, 147 wasn’t Floyd’s best weight and the other two were HUGE and maybe in the top 3 best ever at the weight. Historically ranking them I put Ray above Floyd (by a few spots) and Tommy behind him.

Barkley was very lucky in the first fight, he was being ripped apart and absolutely destroyed with the ref about to stop it.

Tommy was vicious, so precise with his punches and dominated that contest until that punch! That was a near complete performance as you could get, top quality from Hearns.

[X]

I would have Thomas Hitman Hearns on a p4p ATG list and he lost to great fighters in Leonard and Hagler. He was fearless and went up the weights destroying most along the way. Just because he lost does not mean he was lower than Floyd.

Absolutely! I was only talking about this the other day. Unfortunately there are “ifs” that stop him being ranked maybe top 1 or 2.
1. If he had beaten SRL in one or both of their fights (not inconceivable)
2. If he hadn’t thrown his game plan out of the window against Hagler at the first bell because of something that riled him in the build up week.
And also , I’m more convinced about him than any other Boxer ,that if he fought Floyd in a mythical match up that he would beat him .

Tommy was a beast- I feel like he won the Leonard rematch pretty handily but they scored it a draw. No shame in the first loss at all, that was a great match up between two legit ATGs in their primes. No shame in the Hagler loss either- he moved up to take on one of the best ATG middles ever and lost the most exciting fight in the history of the sport. The losses to Barkley hurt Tommy’s ranking more than anything else- Barkley had his number but outside of that he shouldn’t have been anywhere near Tommy’s level.

Head to head Tommy and Ray destroy Floyd at 147. As Master said, however, 147 wasn’t Floyd’s best weight and the other two were HUGE and maybe in the top 3 best ever at the weight. Historically ranking them I put Ray above Floyd (by a few spots) and Tommy behind him.

Barkley was very lucky in the first fight, he was being ripped apart and absolutely destroyed with the ref about to stop it.

Tommy was vicious, so precise with his punches and dominated that contest until that punch! That was a near complete performance as you could get, top quality from Hearns.

Floyd is a genuinely great boxer. Cool, composed and immaculate technique with a tough tough mindset.

At Welter, though, Hearns murders him. Tommy was HUGE at the weight, whereas Floyd was always a small welter.

Hearns is the only guy to truly outbox Ray Leonard, who I think was technically as good as Floyd. Hearns was truly vicious in there too …. And I would know.

Over 12 rounds, I don’t see how Floyd wins this one. If you were going to create a composite fighter to beat Floyd, it would end up looking just like Tommy.

[mikeeod]

I would have Thomas Hitman Hearns on a p4p ATG list and he lost to great fighters in Leonard and Hagler. He was fearless and went up the weights destroying most along the way. Just because he lost does not mean he was lower than Floyd.

Absolutely! I was only talking about this the other day. Unfortunately there are “ifs” that stop him being ranked maybe top 1 or 2.
1. If he had beaten SRL in one or both of their fights (not inconceivable)
2. If he hadn’t thrown his game plan out of the window against Hagler at the first bell because of something that riled him in the build up week.
And also , I’m more convinced about him than any other Boxer ,that if he fought Floyd in a mythical match up that he would beat him .

Tommy was a beast- I feel like he won the Leonard rematch pretty handily but they scored it a draw. No shame in the first loss at all, that was a great match up between two legit ATGs in their primes. No shame in the Hagler loss either- he moved up to take on one of the best ATG middles ever and lost the most exciting fight in the history of the sport. The losses to Barkley hurt Tommy’s ranking more than anything else- Barkley had his number but outside of that he shouldn’t have been anywhere near Tommy’s level.

Head to head Tommy and Ray destroy Floyd at 147. As Master said, however, 147 wasn’t Floyd’s best weight and the other two were HUGE and maybe in the top 3 best ever at the weight. Historically ranking them I put Ray above Floyd (by a few spots) and Tommy behind him.

Barkley was very lucky in the first fight, he was being ripped apart and absolutely destroyed with the ref about to stop it.

Tommy was vicious, so precise with his punches and dominated that contest until that punch! That was a near complete performance as you could get, top quality from Hearns.

Floyd is a genuinely great boxer. Cool, composed and immaculate technique with a tough tough mindset.

At Welter, though, Hearns murders him. Tommy was HUGE at the weight, whereas Floyd was always a small welter.

Hearns is the only guy to truly outbox Ray Leonard, who I think was technically as good as Floyd. Hearns was truly vicious in there too …. And I would know.

Over 12 rounds, I don’t see how Floyd wins this one. If you were going to create a composite fighter to beat Floyd, it would end up looking just like Tommy.

Agree with this. Will add that Ray Leonard also was the composite fighter to beat Floyd at 147- as you said he is just as good technically but at 147 was the bigger man and hit much harder. No shame in that for Floyd though, I feel the better mythical match ups for Floyd are at his more natural weights of 135/140. I would love to see Floyd vs prime Sweet Pea, Duran, JCC, Pryor...etc. Those would be great match ups and there wouldn't be the size disadvantage for Floyd like there would be against the best 147 pounders. For me it's a testament to Floyd's greatness that he is compared against the greatest welters ever when that was not his best weight.

[Master]

I would have Thomas Hitman Hearns on a p4p ATG list and he lost to great fighters in Leonard and Hagler. He was fearless and went up the weights destroying most along the way. Just because he lost does not mean he was lower than Floyd.

Absolutely! I was only talking about this the other day. Unfortunately there are “ifs” that stop him being ranked maybe top 1 or 2.
1. If he had beaten SRL in one or both of their fights (not inconceivable)
2. If he hadn’t thrown his game plan out of the window against Hagler at the first bell because of something that riled him in the build up week.
And also , I’m more convinced about him than any other Boxer ,that if he fought Floyd in a mythical match up that he would beat him .

Tommy was a beast- I feel like he won the Leonard rematch pretty handily but they scored it a draw. No shame in the first loss at all, that was a great match up between two legit ATGs in their primes. No shame in the Hagler loss either- he moved up to take on one of the best ATG middles ever and lost the most exciting fight in the history of the sport. The losses to Barkley hurt Tommy’s ranking more than anything else- Barkley had his number but outside of that he shouldn’t have been anywhere near Tommy’s level.

Head to head Tommy and Ray destroy Floyd at 147. As Master said, however, 147 wasn’t Floyd’s best weight and the other two were HUGE and maybe in the top 3 best ever at the weight. Historically ranking them I put Ray above Floyd (by a few spots) and Tommy behind him.

Barkley was very lucky in the first fight, he was being ripped apart and absolutely destroyed with the ref about to stop it.

Tommy was vicious, so precise with his punches and dominated that contest until that punch! That was a near complete performance as you could get, top quality from Hearns.

Floyd is a genuinely great boxer. Cool, composed and immaculate technique with a tough tough mindset.

At Welter, though, Hearns murders him. Tommy was HUGE at the weight, whereas Floyd was always a small welter.

Hearns is the only guy to truly outbox Ray Leonard, who I think was technically as good as Floyd. Hearns was truly vicious in there too …. And I would know.

Over 12 rounds, I don’t see how Floyd wins this one. If you were going to create a composite fighter to beat Floyd, it would end up looking just like Tommy.

Agree with this. Will add that Ray Leonard also was the composite fighter to beat Floyd at 147- as you said he is just as good technically but at 147 was the bigger man and hit much harder. No shame in that for Floyd though, I feel the better mythical match ups for Floyd are at his more natural weights of 135/140. I would love to see Floyd vs prime Sweet Pea, Duran, JCC, Pryor...etc. Those would be great match ups and there wouldn't be the size disadvantage for Floyd like there would be against the best 147 pounders. For me it's a testament to Floyd's greatness that he is compared against the greatest welters ever when that was not his best weight.

That is similar to Sugar Ray Robinson at middleweight when his best was at Welterweight.

[mikeeod]

I would have Thomas Hitman Hearns on a p4p ATG list and he lost to great fighters in Leonard and Hagler. He was fearless and went up the weights destroying most along the way. Just because he lost does not mean he was lower than Floyd.

Absolutely! I was only talking about this the other day. Unfortunately there are “ifs” that stop him being ranked maybe top 1 or 2.
1. If he had beaten SRL in one or both of their fights (not inconceivable)
2. If he hadn’t thrown his game plan out of the window against Hagler at the first bell because of something that riled him in the build up week.
And also , I’m more convinced about him than any other Boxer ,that if he fought Floyd in a mythical match up that he would beat him .

Tommy was a beast- I feel like he won the Leonard rematch pretty handily but they scored it a draw. No shame in the first loss at all, that was a great match up between two legit ATGs in their primes. No shame in the Hagler loss either- he moved up to take on one of the best ATG middles ever and lost the most exciting fight in the history of the sport. The losses to Barkley hurt Tommy’s ranking more than anything else- Barkley had his number but outside of that he shouldn’t have been anywhere near Tommy’s level.

Head to head Tommy and Ray destroy Floyd at 147. As Master said, however, 147 wasn’t Floyd’s best weight and the other two were HUGE and maybe in the top 3 best ever at the weight. Historically ranking them I put Ray above Floyd (by a few spots) and Tommy behind him.

Barkley was very lucky in the first fight, he was being ripped apart and absolutely destroyed with the ref about to stop it.

Tommy was vicious, so precise with his punches and dominated that contest until that punch! That was a near complete performance as you could get, top quality from Hearns.

Floyd is a genuinely great boxer. Cool, composed and immaculate technique with a tough tough mindset.

At Welter, though, Hearns murders him. Tommy was HUGE at the weight, whereas Floyd was always a small welter.

Hearns is the only guy to truly outbox Ray Leonard, who I think was technically as good as Floyd. Hearns was truly vicious in there too …. And I would know.

Over 12 rounds, I don’t see how Floyd wins this one. If you were going to create a composite fighter to beat Floyd, it would end up looking just like Tommy.

Agree with this. Will add that Ray Leonard also was the composite fighter to beat Floyd at 147- as you said he is just as good technically but at 147 was the bigger man and hit much harder. No shame in that for Floyd though, I feel the better mythical match ups for Floyd are at his more natural weights of 135/140. I would love to see Floyd vs prime Sweet Pea, Duran, JCC, Pryor...etc. Those would be great match ups and there wouldn't be the size disadvantage for Floyd like there would be against the best 147 pounders. For me it's a testament to Floyd's greatness that he is compared against the greatest welters ever when that was not his best weight.

That is similar to Sugar Ray Robinson at middleweight when his best was at Welterweight.

Definitely. The difference being that I don’t see anyone as a definite favorite over Ray at 160- he was so good that even above his natural weight he would be favored over the greats of that division. It’s splitting hairs at this level but that is an example of why I personally can’t see a case for Floyd over Robinson. Back then there were only eight weight classes and one champ per weight- Ray would’ve cleaned out 154 and 168 had those divisions been there. Joey Maxim was a great light heavy and Ray was dominating him until he dehydrated and suffered heat exhaustion.