The Brexit Thread

[Primo Carnera]

Brexit is a Tory conspired mess means they should never have gone to a referendum in the first place and it would never had happened under a Labour government because there has never been as much division as there is with the "little Englanders" in the Conservative party.

I meant nothing more than that.

So what you’re saying is that:
A. You didn’t explain yourself very well. And
B. You deliberately were patchy about your views because you didn’t have the balls to give your socialist allegiance as at the time in general (I don’t count myself in that view)you may not have been taken seriously .

[Beanz]

Brexit is a Tory conspired mess means they should never have gone to a referendum in the first place and it would never had happened under a Labour government because there has never been as much division as there is with the "little Englanders" in the Conservative party.

I meant nothing more than that.

So what you’re saying is that:
A. You didn’t explain yourself very well. And
B. You deliberately were patchy about your views because you didn’t have the balls to give your socialist allegiance as at the time in general (I don’t count myself in that view)you may not have been taken seriously .

I think you are mistaken here Primo. Master has never hidden the fact he voted leave but whilst being a Labour voter. Plenty of people on the left who made a case for leaving the EU. Master was right though in that it was the tories who insisted on a referendum wanting to placate the little Englanders and racists from right across the UK populace.

Of course not every pro Brexit voter was a bigot but the majority of bigots voted leave. Look at the posters here not even from the UK foaming at the mouth and loving the idea of their bigotry being endorsed, normalised and encouraged by Farrage, Johnson, Trump and Musk. Patel and Bravermen are the horrific reality of a tory party all the decent tories don't even recognise anymore.

[Master]

Brexit is a Tory conspired mess means they should never have gone to a referendum in the first place and it would never had happened under a Labour government because there has never been as much division as there is with the "little Englanders" in the Conservative party.

I meant nothing more than that.

So what you’re saying is that:
A. You didn’t explain yourself very well. And
B. You deliberately were patchy about your views because you didn’t have the balls to give your socialist allegiance as at the time in general (I don’t count myself in that view)you may not have been taken seriously .

You got that from what I wrote?

You misinterpreted what I originally wrote and are too shallow to admit that you were wrong.

[Primo Carnera]

I may we’ll have missed that @Master voted to leave whilst being a Labour voter , which in itself is a very rare mix.
But my point from the outset was that you blame the tories, whilst not acknowledging the public’s part in this for voting for something that they were advised by a high majority across the parties not to vote for.
And then I asked how would you have negotiated Brexit any differently, which you promptly chose to ignore.
The reason I asked that is because once the vote has happened to leave, it would be an impossible task for any government, whether Labour, Tory or Lib Dem, to get a fair exit agreement from the EU.

[Beanz]

I may we’ll have missed that @Master voted to leave whilst being a Labour voter , which in itself is a very rare mix.
But my point from the outset was that you blame the tories, whilst not acknowledging the public’s part in this for voting for something that they were advised by a high majority across the parties not to vote for.
And then I asked how would you have negotiated Brexit any differently, which you promptly chose to ignore.
The reason I asked that is because once the vote has happened to leave, it would be an impossible task for any government, whether Labour, Tory or Lib Dem, to get a fair exit agreement from the EU.

I think anyone could have done better, even the monster raving loony party. The same with Covid. Johnson's bunch of cronies were disasterous and thousands died neeedlessly and billions of pounds( ....yes fucking billions) went into the pockets of their chums. These tories are disaster capitalists. They literally gambled on our economy tanking so that they could profit from misery of a botched Brexit. No other government of any political persuasion would have ever done that.

[Primo Carnera]

I may we’ll have missed that @Master voted to leave whilst being a Labour voter , which in itself is a very rare mix.
But my point from the outset was that you blame the tories, whilst not acknowledging the public’s part in this for voting for something that they were advised by a high majority across the parties not to vote for.
And then I asked how would you have negotiated Brexit any differently, which you promptly chose to ignore.
The reason I asked that is because once the vote has happened to leave, it would be an impossible task for any government, whether Labour, Tory or Lib Dem, to get a fair exit agreement from the EU.

I think anyone could have done better, even the monster raving loony party. The same with Covid. Johnson's bunch of cronies were disasterous and thousands died neeedlessly and billions of pounds( ....yes fucking billions) went into the pockets of their chums. These tories are disaster capitalists. They literally gambled on our economy tanking so that they could profit from misery of a botched Brexit. No other government of any political persuasion would have ever done that.

Like I said before, I am no apologist for the Tories and I’m fully aware of some of the absolutely disgusting shit they’ve presided over.
But we’re talking about Brexit here.and I firmly believe that it was always going to be nigh on impossible to get a fair “divorce” from the EU for any party to attempt to get.
And because the public voted for it, they/we have to accept some of the blame.
All this started with Master blaming the Tories because they shouldn’t have had a referendum. But he voted to leave, so why worry?
If his beef is the way they’ve dealt with it, I merely ask what He, You or any other party could/should have done differently ON BREXIT. The pandemic is a whole nother story.

[Beanz]

Primo

Yes there was another way. Corbyns version of Brexit was a credible option, based on five pillars. The customs union, the trade relationship, protection of consumer and environmental rights, and of course the Good Friday agreement.

Johnsons tories were never interested in any of that. They just wanted to avoid paying tax, remove peoples human rights (look already at the removal of the right to protest) reinstate fracking, and pander to the most reactionary of bigoted short sighted pensioners and nimbys.

You are right that the UK public voted for it, in many cases like Turkeys voting for Xmas. Here across the SW peninsula it has been devastating. Commercial fishermen shafted by the clowns they voted for, Cornwall a county transformed and sustained by EU money persuaded to stick their middle finger up to their European compatriots. Stupid stuff.

[Primo Carnera]

Primo

Yes there was another way. Corbyns version of Brexit was a credible option, based on five pillars. The customs union, the trade relationship, protection of consumer and environmental rights, and of course the Good Friday agreement.

Johnsons tories were never interested in any of that. They just wanted to avoid paying tax, remove peoples human rights (look already at the removal of the right to protest) reinstate fracking, and pander to the most reactionary of bigoted short sighted pensioners and nimbys.

You are right that the UK public voted for it, in many cases like Turkeys voting for Xmas. Here across the SW peninsula it has been devastating. Commercial fishermen shafted by the clowns they voted for, Cornwall a county transformed and sustained by EU money persuaded to stick their middle finger up to their European compatriots. Stupid stuff.

We will never know how successful Corbyn’s version would have been or more importantly how much the EU would’ve moved the goalposts in order to shaft and punish the U.K. for daring to leave the EU. Digging their heels in for one last payday.
And yes Cornwall benefited from EU money , but this was in return for restricting the fishermen’s ability to earn a living by imposing ridiculous fishing borders and unfair Quotas on them whilst allowing European fishing boats to fill their boots and work to a very different set of rules.
How can it be for example, that French and Spanish fishermen can pillage U.K. waters and have way more generous quotas to work to ? It’s fucking disgusting to be honest, and that is why 90% of the Cornish fishing industry voted for Brexit.
They were fucking imprisoned in their own waters while EU boats cashed in.

[TitoFan]

I may have posted once on this thread, as it is basically a UK issue, and I'm neither too knowledgeable about it, or directly affected by it.

But it's a serious enough issue that it transcends the UK and into the global picture (or at least the European one).

To my limited knowledge, the reasons for the idea of Brexit were mainly reasons of sovereignty and concerns about immigration. Probably more reasons... but those seem like the main ones. By all accounts, the UK's economy has suffered a bit since Brexit took effect, which is now probably causing some second-guessing by those who actually voted. I don't know.

Although not the same thing, I am aware of similar sentiments in the U.S., where a significant portion of people in some States favor secession from the Union. Not sure that will ever happen... but it would have humongous ramifications if it did.

Point is... whenever you have huge variations of peoples and cultures under one central government/ regulatory body... you're gonna have resentments.